I've been frazzled by my G3 for the last 5 days, nothing seems to fix "the problem" It started soon after a browser crash I think that damaged some directory, disk frist aid and techtoolpro couldnt fix it, something about a leaf file. I formatted the main drive- the original Quantum fireball 6 gig, and reinstalled 9.0 my slave drive is a WD400BB installed about 3 years ago for backups and file storage. It was fine. Sine then I have had nothing but trouble for the last 5 days, lockups on starting up, blinking question mark, "system error" starting up with extensions off will still lock up,Techtool pro will find some little BS problem like bundle bits,maybe file dates and that's all, and fix them. Going backwards, that browser crash that damaged the system directory or whatever leaf file- I wasn't able to reinstall the 9.0 from the CDat first, it would get most of the way in and stop with errors! I had to go back to the 8.5 CD and even that produced some install errors, then the 9.0 and even tried the 9.1 and 9.2.2 with "new clean system folder" Every time I think I have it fixed, I.E. 5.1 would crash suddenly, AOL would crash suddenly, typing an email in Eudora and suddenly it would crash. Reboot, then I get "Sorry sysem error, restart with extensions off" try that, still won't get past the startup screen when the bomb or the error hits and it locks up. Techtoolpro and disk first aid might find bundle bits again, or simply lock up loading it, or it would find an error it cant fix like keys out of order, 4, 178, Invalid cat. rec. type 4, 87 Invariably I had to format the drive, reinstall the 9.0, reinstall AOL, Eudora and I.E. and it would run okay for a hour or two, then the whole round of things would begin again! So I pulled out the slave drive, made no difference at all other than now the startup couldn't find any system folder, started up off the CD, reinstalled 9.0 AGAIN, still some errors on install and the blicking question mark on startup but will start up. Over the weekend, I installed a new main drive, a WD400BB like the slave drive, installed the 9.0, same install errors,lockups and all the rest, so it obviously was not the drive wearing out! I also tried reinstalling the 9.0 and JUST AOL and I.E. 5.1 FRESH downloads and no other software, and it still has this problem! I ran techtoolpro on both drives to check for bad blocks, and everything else it has in there to use for tools, and other than the directories being fragmented all over hell every time, and rebuilding it, it would find nothing wrong with the drives, ram, video etc etc. I don't know what the problem is, I am guessing now it must be something with the logic board or bus. I tried just now downloading the Real player which always worked on my machine, I tried downloading off 4 different sources and 3 different versions, as well as copying the .hqx and a .sit backup file I have on CD's and every time it unstuffs, I get an error that the file contains no install file! I get a similar kind of error when I tried downloading and installing AIM, it's alomst like the data is being corrupted between the input and the drive going thru the bus and logic board. I bought a G3/400 used, coming tomorrow, but sure would be nice to figure out what the problem IS with the G3!!!

Putting in the new drive as I mentioned probably took ten easy minutes tops. Stick in the 9.0 CD install, run the disk first aid, drive checks out nice, made two partitions and installed in one. start up for the first time and whammo "Sorry system error! restart with extensions off, to turn extensions off start up with the shift key pressed" Chit, tried that, same problem! OOOOKKKKAY, so maybe since this was a totally new install the 9.0 needs the 8.5 as a base I think since the 9.0 is an update. Get out the 8.5 CD install, boot up same problem again!!!! Diskfirst aid finds some errors, I forget what they were. Restart, can't find system folder/blinking question mark, tries reading off the CD instead. Formatted the drive to ONE partition, reinstalled, same problem again!!! techtool finds the usual bundle bit needs repair. Formatted again, took the 8.5 CD and tried the "restore software" icon instead of the other one, it gets part way thru the MacintoshHD.img on the CD and stops and says there's a checksum error- on the CD itself!!! and tells me it expected <number> and got <number> instead and said it may not work properly. So I hit the format, and the regular install again and then disk first aid and it shows no errors. Boot up, blinking question mark then it's running okay. Installed 9.0 and here I am, several hours later!!! I looked at the two CD's and while they do have some scratches on them, none look serious, the usual kind you would get sliding the disk in and out the paper sleeve or into the drive and handling over 3 years. That still doesn't explain much though, I ALSO installed the 9.1 with "completely new system folder" checked to DO it, and the 9.2.2 from brand new copies a coworker gave me. Made no difference. I am guessing right now I have some little error due to the blinking question mark when I started up, but didn't lock up or crash. Thought I was okay, machine ran fine all last night but today I had another round of crashes starting again when an image I just downloaded off my ftp and was checking with I.E. and my html page, wasn't displaying right and the colors of the one photo on a page of photos started to turn a hazy green getting worse each time I reloaded the page. Quit I.E. started again, crashes, restarted the machine, and was in Eudora typing an email and then I made a new signature,soon as I selected the button to put the signature /personality into the email it just quits on me, that was repeatable. Restarted the machine, wouldn't get past the loading screen before I got the error of "Bus error" Restart again, I get to the same point and get "Illegal instruction" Put the CD in and use disk first aid, tells me; Missing file record for file thread, 165, 15 fized it or so it said, restarted, get to the loading screen again, new error of "address error" Go in with TechtoolPro it fixes some bundle bits with Eudora and I think an AOL file,did the round of other fixes or checks with the desktop, directories etc. Now it boots and works fine again... Feel free to let me know if anything here sounds familiar. I have a new lithium battery coming too, don't know if that could be the problem. Ive rebuilt desktop, zapped PRAM. Sometimes restarting won't LET me restart with extensions off- it's like the key to do that is being ignored!. The only other thing I can think of that was changed around the time this all seeemd tobegin maybe, is maybe a month ago I replaced the apple keyboard with a standard 105 key model which doesn't have the USB plug- it has the round plug but the G3/300 has a socket for that style. The mouse is a logitech USB and that is plugged into the USB port on the machine. I don't know if there is any conflict of using those plugs at the same time or not, the keyboard and mouse work perfectly fine and the problems I'm having don't seem related to somnething like that, but maybe there was a tech bulletin or something about a problem with this?

I have seen these problems before, and it has been fixed by replacing the pram battery. For some reason in those machines they get really wierd with dead or old batteries...Did you try holding down the cuda(spelling?) switch for @10 secs? It is one of those 2 little buttons near the pci slots....

Thanks Andre, I DO have a lithium battery on it's way- ordered a few days ago as one of two items I figured I should get- the new drive which I wanted anyway,and that battery. So far the drive was not the problem, so when the battery arrives in a day or two I will try that and see. The battery is original, almost 5 years old so I knew it should be replaced soon anyway but never would expect these problems! Not sure what button you mean, I have 2 on the front, the reset and the programmer's button... I had another round of crashes and messed up system folder Btree etc etc Wound up formatting, reinstalling 9.0 and NOW even that would no longer work. I had to put in the old 8.5 disk, again with the checksum error withthe "restore software" icon in that, so I used the other icon to "install software" and it took two trys, first time made errors, second time it installed ok. Now I ONLY am running the 8.5 and I.E. I downloaded the 5.1.7. I tried that RealPlayer software again and as before it downloads, and when trying to use the installer it says there is no install file in the file or it "verifies installation software" shows the progress of that, get's to the end of that and then "goes away" doesn't show a quit, error, installing anything etc I also noticed when trying to find something with sherlock I got a message saying :"The application sherlock could not be opened because sherlock could not be found" And that is on a fresh install of 8.5, checked before and after with diskfirst aid and found all fine! Bizarre eh? I'll post what I find when I get the battery in.

Okay Im not going to read all that, but you will need a bootable copy of Norton 5.0 to fix the leaf problem. Drive first Aid has been known in the past to "cause" problems instead of fixing them.

I am back on with the G3/400 I bought and rec'd yesterday, it arrived in perfect condition, started right up with it's 8.5, so I installed 9.0 and everything works now, including my Zip CD burner which on my G3/300 stopped working for burning with Toast about 2 months ago. I downloaded Real Player and all the rest of the stuff I usually use, and they all installed without a hitch, smooth and nice :) I rec'd the battery today, installed it in the G3/300 whose battery was dated 11/98 but now the machine won't boot, I had a crash last night on it and couldn't even reinstall the 8.5 or do anything at all, it was totally screwed. Trying to boot up with the Techtoolpro disk or the 9.0 disk just doesnt, I would get either a dark blue or green screen, maybe the blinking question mark, then it stops and then the screen goes black and right then when you expect to see the "welcome to Mac" icon panel and extension icons starting to load all I get on it is a totally black screen and that's it. Tried zapping the PRAM, extensions off etc and same deal, so I'm guessing now it was more than just the battery and that something is failing on the logic board. So I pulled out the perfectly good ram and modem which I have used on occasionand put them in the G3/400, and now I have 448 megs of ram on it. Guess I'll hang on to the 300 for parts or something and pull the 40 gig drive out of it as well. It's seen a lot of use and a lot of dust over the years.