Hey halo. Cool it dude. And, oh, by the way, work on the language a little. Your writing skills are like a winmodem.

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Lol, I should work on my writing skills. Are you looking at poor punctuation and indentation? Listen, this is a wwwboard. I just wrote with anger because I am sick of those losers. For you: "Hey halo. Cool it dude. And, oh, by the way, work on the language a little. Your writing skills are like a winmodem." Ennui, try this: Halo, Take the time and calm down. By the way, you may want to think about revising your your post. The organisation of your post is similar to that of an "Winmodem". Sincerely, Ennui Ennui, I have four words for you: practice what you preach.

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Yikes halo! Take a deeeeep breath and count to 10. I didn't post here to try to get your dander up. Though I seem to have succeeded. Sure. You make a valid point. Much work goes into development. That is a given. And, no. not every OS suits everybody. Windoze doesn't personally suit me. That is my choice. I follow no one. My beef was (still is and probably always will be) that the masses as you so eloquently dubbed, stupid people, are being rooked by one unstability after another. This may be due to the simple fact that they didn't know they have a choice. (If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?) We aren't dumb to the fact that these releases are outdated when they hit the general public. There is a newer and better version just waiting to be unveiled. This is called designed obsolesence. (Big words for someone who doesn't know anything about business, eh?) All this is to the chagrin of the consumer who grows a bit less wealthy with each fleecing. As you also stated, this is a www board. Hardly the place to throw a tyannical rage. Don't you agree? Enough said, Cruptr

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I like cruptr's comment on WFW. I *liked* Win3.1 WFW. Sigh... I don't want to upgrade (?) from my win95 OS - it works just fine and I use it every day. But I'm also running Libranet Linux on my spare computer: 200mhz, 64meg ram, 4meg video board (makes a difference :-)) and an external modem. My browser is Opera 5. KDE desktop is a little pokey but ICE is nice. It took me a long time to playing with linux to actually get a distro working the way I want it to, and I'm still not satified yet. But linux has given me options that old Bill didn't want to give me... and that's the whole point. -M

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I may have been a little too critical in my post. It amazes how one person could be calm enough for two people (Cruptr), As his post change my attitude on how I should address people. I mean, i insulted his intellegence (as well as others)and termed him as a "follower". His post was a shock, I gave him a direct hit and yet it seems that he remained calm as if he had not read a harsh remarks had passed his eyes. This was enough to me question my post. Cruptr, if you have don't anyone's respect, be assure that you have mine. I'm young and still have alot to learn about people as well as life (I now feel this hippie vibe all of a sudden). I may respest him but I still don't agree with him. I use both Windows and Linux. I have tried alot of Linux distros(trust me, alot). Microsoft tries (emphasis on tries) to provide the best OS as possible. The reason for this goes way beyond customer satisfaction, when you are know as the the company with the best products it is more likely that you more companies/people will become more interested in your products, hence, the company's clientle increases. More clients, more money $$$$ (makes sense, right). Microsoft is yet to be the most stable or the "best" as some may say due to the intellectual capacity of those employed. Don't get me wrong, they are very much educated but (much emphasis on but) they are limited in they way that they are yet to completely solve that problem of stability as well as other problems. So, its not "lazy people",the question is: what they can to accomplish? Personally, I believe that Mac would be more of an competitor for MS rather than Linux. Macs have beauty (no doubt on that) and it has the performance to back it up (man, I wish could get my parents to buy me that new G4 with the fresh OSX....hmmmmmm)And Mac would be more close to Unix than Linux. Mac has more vendors working on products for them also..........so Mac vs MS would be a more sensible debate. I would like to address another debate which is about Windows users are lazy and stupid. Have anybody ever really sat down and realize that many people don't know that other OS's(other than Mac) exist (Linux what? Linux who? Does that animal still exist? IS that a newer version of Mac? Who cares, I'm fine with what I have). People should take into consideration that there alot of people who only use computers when they need a specific job done, ie. homework, spreadsheets, information, etc. Not everyone is into programming, networking, etc where they need to find different environments all the time to fit their needs. Well, thats all I wanted ellaborate on. Catch you later.........homework :( Sincerely, Halo

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I have something else that I wanted to say. It doesn't matter how stable and powerful your products is if there is no real marketing. Your products could be the best in the world but nobody will know if you don't market it. That is what MS did they became successful as a result of that. It is more than likely to that you have to spend money to make money in this world. Look at AMD, AMD constantly beats Intel's supposedly "higher end processors" and AMD is more cost efficient but yet Intel still holds the crown as far as processors go. It's just that way. If you are in a woods screaming for help, who would hear to help you if no one is around? Keep that in mind. Later Sincerely, Halo By the way, there was a mistake in the sentence in my second to last post "Have anybody ever really sat down and realize that many people don't know that other OS's(other than Mac)" I mean for it to be (other than Windows and Mac). Well there are a couple mistakes in there post all together.......didn't exactly revise it

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the first time i started using linux i did not know anything about it until i started using mandrake. Now i am getting better at it and i don't use partition magic to create partitions i use mandrake partitioner. Well for now i am running xp,me and mandrake 8.2 on a single pc and i like mandrake. Mandrake is staying and now i am looking into the new one which is lindows that bill gate try to shut down but fail hahaha. bill sucks. well that's what i can only say and linux RUleS....

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And your reason for that post was?..............Lindows is not much different from any other Linux, it just come built in with wine. Wow, big difference. Anyone can simply download wine and install, in fact most Linux distros come with Wine. Dude, you sound like an ass(really, you do). You I can definitely say is a follower. "Well for now i am running xp,me and mandrake 8.2 on a single pc and i like mandrake. Mandrake is staying and now i am looking into the new one which is lindows that bill gate try to shut down but fail hahaha. bill sucks. well that's what i can only say and linux RUleS...." lol........another Windows to Linux lamer :)). IF Bill gates sucks and Mandrake is here for good, then why in hell do you use XP????? See, think before you say things. Another thing, wouldn't it seem better to hate his products rather than hating him seeing how you never met him and you have used his products to know you don't like it(you like Windows else you would have been through with it all together). And those excuses like "I have to use it to run some products" can't be used by you because you already said that you hate him and his products. I was thinking about another thing, Cruptr used the word "Windoze"(which is constantly used by people who very battles between os's) as a substitution for "Windows". Maybe I wasn't worng about Cruptr being a follower.

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Hmmmmmmm.....I can bet any amount of money that Cruptr still uses Windows. He may use Linux, but he definitely uses Windows too. Also, Windows 2000 was a very good business like OS and alot of security professionals (emphasis on professional) uses Windows as well as real Unix (much emphasis on real Unix) based os's. Linux is not yet ready for everyone's desktop but I wouldn't say that it is impossible to get to that level.

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dtechl, you obviously knows nothing about os's and want to follow. Because if you knew anything about operating systems then you would know that ME is so unstable. Which makes me wonder.........hmmmmmmm..........why in hell do you use Linux???? Windows ME: Malfunctioning Edition and I rest assure that I didn't get that from anyone. Later Windix, Lindix, Lindows, Lundows londux losers!!

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you people need help. Is that what you all do in your spare time? yowsers! You are all quite interesting nonetheless.

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Fighting about operating systems is useless. I think that you must choose whatever suits you. If you like windows go with windows. If you like linux go with linux. Expirience with different OS's and make a choice. Topics like this never get resolved. Seba

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Halo, would you please shut up. I am tired of reading your post. Bill Gates is not going to pay you for this, so get lost.

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I have Slackware 8.0 on my computer. That's all I use. At the moment, I don't even have WINE. Linux works for me. When people complain that Linux isn't as stable as it's cracked up to be, Mozilla crashes, it's hard to use, etc., I just remember "it works for me". You can't expect someone who's anti-Linux from the start to be able to get things to work. Such a person won't let it work.

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My God man, has everyone gone illiterate!!!!!!!. I never said I was against Linux. this world is getting more illiterate each day. If you read and comprehend! then you would see that I am addressing those who get Linux just because everyone else gets it(followers) and those people who constantly bash a system that MS products as well as the people who use MS products to make themself feel superior or boost the low self esteem they have by wanting to join a group they have no use for. I have no f---ing problems with Linux! Read and comprehend you f---ers!!! I said that Linux is not for every, not everyone has the same preference. I myself use Linux and MS, did you read that!!! I said and I quote "both os can get the job done". I am just trying to show the followers and the bashers that there is no sense to make fun of MS and people esp when some of them are still using the product! and for the guy who said he is tired of reading my post, then stop f---ing reading!!!!. Computers is making people more stupid than smarter. You people can't even comprehend. The main person I was talking about was cruptr and he was able to understand what I was saying! read it over, and read it over until you fully understand or don't f---ing read it at all.

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Halo, don't cry like a baby and do me a favour get lost and shut the f--- up. Sucker

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"I am just trying to show the followers and the bashers that there is no sense to make fun of MS and people esp when some of them are still using the product!" So I'll state my first point more clearly. I don't use MS products, therefore I have a right to make fun of them.

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You every notice this debat mostly goes on Linux boards. If you check Windows this debate mostly does not go on. I think its like Sun System keeps telling every one there better they better but customer still chioce Windows. I not saying windows is better at least windows user recondize they short commings and issule it seems to me most linux user think its perfect nothing wrong with the OS. this not true I use it and many other I know who use it and if all linux user are honest to them selfs they know it has falws too. This also reminders of Mac user no matter what windows does they better even if windows happens to have more security and feature they just better it is the way a mac user thinks. Linux do not go down that path you have a good system it has great features but you have learn just like windows users have learn nothing perfect you have use the system with all its fault remember blind faith in anything will get nowhere.

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Is Abby the the only person with any knowledge in here? %¤/%¤(/, eat s---! Abby makes sense and what she says is true and I definitely agree with it. %¤/%¤(/, eat s--- I tell you! Jake, how about I make fun of you then, you poor sucker who can't afford to buy anything that presents a cost and always looking for opensource s---. I want to see what you people do when everyone starts charging. Opensource doesn't mean free software, only the code! How long do you think a a growing company like Redhat will keep giving away free versions of their os! Mandrake already went off to not giving away their powerpack edition, Suse only gives out demos now(unless you count the the ftp install or the ftp tree download), and Debian is going to start charging soon, Caldera already gone commercial (they offer isos yeah, but for how long?) and Slackware, thats another story. What will you do then? branch off to Solaris or bsd and then make fun of people who use Linux and find make all kinds of excuses why you wouldn't pay for Linux?......get real.Hmmmmmm......I wonder how long solaris will be free seeing how they are gaining so much market shares. If you believe one type of OS suits you better than the other, then fine, but don't call other people lazy and stupid for not wanting to use another or not being able to use it as good as you can. Knowing an os does not making you smart and it by no means is a substitute for mathematical computational skills and comprehension skills...............get a life, Jake, the poor shmuck! I bet that you will write another post saying how you bought Slackware and supported the open source community and you will not purchase anything from the monopolistic Bill gates and his affiliates because that will make you part of the wrong (stop lying and making excuses for your needy ass, heard all of those before and i find it rather repetitive).tsk, tsk, tsk, getting schooled by what you would call "a mere high school loser", be real people, enough said.

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By the way, isn't MacOSX a good system that is powerful, very nice interface, and stable enough, and a big leap from their older versions, as well being more close to unix than Linux (which is a clone of unix, no insult meant by that too for all you annoying people) of the OS and yet I hear alot of people bash OSX and mac itself and make excuses why they wouldn't purchase one.........hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........I wonder if price has anything to do with it. What about the REAL UNIX os's like AIX or HPUX, and others, why do I hear people complain about that(isn't that real unix which will definitely seperate you from MS?)?......My father told me that there was a time when you could get so many things for free on the net and alot of those that was freeware are now shareware, purchase only or demos(does the word "demos" scare all you leechers?) Free is a word that is soon to be extinct on the internet, so just stop being hypocritical and find a girl!!!

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You can't make fun of me for not using MS because I "can't afford to buy anything that presents a cost". I admit it, I don't have hundreds of dollars to spend on software. Right now, however, I have Windows XP Pro OEM, 2000 Pro, 98SE, Office 2000, Visio 2002, etc. I didn't pay for any of them. I don't use them because I like Linux more. Also, I didn't buy Slackware. I downloaded the isos and burned them on $0.10 CDRs. So I'm thrifty even when it comes to Linux. The next version will probably go on some of my free CDRs. "If you believe one type of OS suits you better than the other, then fine, but don't call other people lazy and stupid for not wanting to use another or not being able to use it as good as you can." - For the record, I haven't called anyone lazy or stupid. "Knowing an os does not making you smart and it by no means is a substitute for mathematical computational skills and comprehension skills" - I'm in calculus 3, does that indicate mathematical computational skills? Please note that I haven't claimed to be smarter than anyone here because I use Linux.

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how did you get them copies of MS, better yet, the main question, are they legal or did was someone sharing it on the school's lan?Why can't I make fun of you? did you not say that you have a right to make fun of people who use Windows? I quote, "So I'll state my first point more clearly. I don't use MS products, therefore I have a right to make fun of them." tsk, tsk, tsk....come better people

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No, my MS stuff isn't legal. I just wanted to make the point that Linux isn't my only no-cost option. I though it was quite obvious that the "them" in "So I'll state my first point more clearly. I don't use MS products, therefore I have a right to make fun of them." refers to "MS products". Perhaps the sentence was poorly structured.

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Theives can't bring across a point. You shouldn't even be saying anything

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My theivery does nothing to damage my point. You challenged my use of Linux, suggesting it was only because I couldn't afford MS products ("...poor sucker who can't afford to buy anything that presents a cost."). I've shown that I don't need to be able to buy MS products, making your argument invalid.

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I am especially tired of the legal illegal debate. The day I meet someone who has never copied a movie, a music CD, tape, or fudged on income taxes, is the day I listen to someone talk to me about what is the importance of never stealing. As far as I can see we are all thieves of one kind or another. If I could figure out how to use multiple copies of XP I would do it in a heartbeat. And I wouldnt cry about MS only making 2.6 billion profit, or a moviestar making $5,000 an hour, or a rockstar making even more. The thing that makes Linux great is that its not about getting rich off of us and thats good enough for me. STEAL THIS THREAD.

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Zamba and Jake i agree with you guys. I think it's better to stop answering to Halo. Let him say whatever he wants to, we all noticed he is a stupid b----, he just wants to hurt our feelings so let the mother f-----waste his time writing. Don't answer to him anymore.

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Now thAt's an anwer!

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Not about making money huh? If they are not about making money then how come they are not non profit organizations? and why do they incorporate? Why do they try to gain market share? I told you before about those "all for the open source community speeches" f---ing stupid poor motherf---ers. you are the stupid one and Jake your point is still invalid. It has been invalid since you first said "I don't use microsoft products so I have a right to make fun of them". If you had read it right in the first place you would see that I have said ""I am just trying to show the followers and the bashers that there is no sense to make fun of MS and people esp when some of them are still using the product!". If you read it correctly (that is where comprehension comes in then you would see that it is not limited to people who use both Linux and MS products. The sign, I'm trying to hurt all of your feelings? go find a f---ing girl man!!! you come here talking about hurting feelings.Talking about OS is hurting your feeelings, you follower, get a f---ing girl and get laid. Everyone has stealed in one way or another? Don't let your ignorance be known by all, that is just like saying every man has been gay at some point in there life. If you were a programmer then you would know the importance of being compensated for your intellectual property and then you say that it doesn't matter because he has all this money. When companies lose moneyfrom piracy, what do they often do? Raise the price and lay off workers to compensate for their lost. I don't care if you use Linux and how you feel. You people are like Jehovah's Witnesses, you believe that everyone should f---ing convert to one variety, I have multiple OS and other things because I like variety. f--- what you think, not everyone is like you and not everyone needs to know how to f---ing use Linux. You people are f---ing selfish to the point where you think that what is good for you should be good for everyone. This is the kinda s--- that gets me angry. As I stated before, not everyone has time for computers, muchless have to learn Linux just to do simple things. I personally like Linux and use it. I also Like MS and OSX but I am not going to come out in newspaper and every forum(Linux) and newsgroup to say that Linux is the best because that is a lie. A person can only say what is best for them and I don't wrong that. This little debate has gone on Long enough to the point where people as well as me have gone sidetracked. This is not about which f---ing os is better than the other, this is about Linux people acting like barbarians and coming into chats, newsgroups,, forums and others and out of nowhere try to claim Linux is better. How many times have you heard Windows people doing that? Not much, why is that? because they don't give a f---, they use what suits them. Not everyone's job is to be a security expert or programmer or network admin or other web based occupation. I am sick of hearing how this os and this os is dominate. and what I said about cost is true, just because ne person "claims" he has the oses and still uses Linux doesn't mean anything. that is a minor claim. I constantly look at forums for information and see stuff about which is dominate and it gets ridiculous. I am still true with what I say wheter you agree with it or not. There are alot of people who have Linux just to say they have it or to make it look like they are something that they are not(and those are where the dominant questions start). Alot of people never even heard of Warez and I find that some people don't even know where to find Linux and when they do find it, they make all kind of excuses and they say MAC and Microsoft need to lower theirt prices and a bunch of bulls---(seriously bulls---) maybe Jake is serious about it he has to keep in mind that not everyone is like him. And for those who like to tsay stf or something similar to that, don't. If you are not in fron t of my face to say it then don't say it at all, that is the coward way. I don't care if you are an adult or not, internet threats are people who are cowards. So come correct or don't come at all.

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I agree with you halo,alot of those Linux users act arrogant and cocky and are always trying to prove something. I think it's because they want attention and nobody cares what OS they use. It is not a matter of what someone else likes it a matter of what you like. Some of those fakers that you should have mentioned are those script kiddies. You go to chat for help on Linux or Windows and it is always a Linux person bringing up a against OS. HAlo, keep on doing what you do, all hope is not lost. nighthawk

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The point is not about making money. The point is about getting obscenely rich off of the meager earnings of the hard working multitude that Halo calls d---a-- f--- s--- followers,(heretofore known as dafs). And about locking people into a system that demands that you be a follower instead of giving you the choice. I use XP and 2000 only when it is the best alternative for a given use. For many uses, Linux works great and is more stable (Halo, I dont think you understand the concept of stability, both in human and tech terms. Check it out, its cool). There will always be people who tell you how to do things. Ignore them. Problem solved. By the way, concerning Linux users always crashing Windows parties, I could have sworn this was a Linux forum.

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lol.............I can't stress that comprehension point enough. Didn't I say that I use multiple OS's? Can't you read? I am a soon to be programmer and network specialist dude! I am supposed to know more than one OS but I said that not everyone needs/have the time for that because not everyone is in that profession and some have family to take care of dude! and about this being a Linux forum, did you look who started with the Linux versus Windows debate. Let me tell you this Zamba, Win98 crashed on me alot, hell, it crashed on me when I was installing it. I as I learn that they are ways to handle the problem. And I swear to god, ever since I god 2000 and XP I have never saw a blue screen. I have Linux bozo. I have Suse (which I paid for with my allowance, my dad didn't buy it for me) and I have Redhat which I have Caldera which I downloaded. If anything, I was the one who actually support the opensource community so don't talk s--- about not knowing about stability. Windows XP has worked fine for me and alot of people I know and SUse and Caldera also. So again I say, read and comprehend and don't make yourself look like an . I laughed when you said following, that was so funny. You didn't even see that it all started with cruptr. Got root? or Got c:\.......lol Later

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It is amazing how people can tell you the whole directory structure of Linux, Unix, Mac, etc, but they can't even make themself souns sensible and/or they can't comprehend.

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The real problem is that all the Linux people think they know what the Windows people think, and all the Windows people think they know what the Linux people think. How about we just stick to what people have actually posted? I've tried to avoid this mentality. Notice how my original claim is simply that Windows people are biased against Linux, so they can't get things to work as well as people who like Linux. To be fair, Halo, I'll claim that the converse is also true. Linux people tend to be biased against Windows, so they aren't able to get things working as well as the Windows people could.

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Jake, you’re a scholar and a gentleman. Halo, no I don’t read most of your message because I don’t like how you attack people. Though I agree with you, and Jakes latest message, that people get locked into one viewpoint and that’s all they care to see, you’ll never get your ideas fully heard if you attack people at the drop of a hat. Express yourself with a bit of kindness and you’ll be amazed at the results. Trust me, I have learned the HARDEST of ways on that issue. PS. Linux still rules

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Zamba and Jake, it is odd to me, but I agree with you both. Zamba, you may hate me, but I could never hate you for the fact that I don't know you personally to judge you. Sorry if I came off harsh (ok, mean and sadistic) but you understand what drove me to write what I wrote but then again that still does not justify my actions. Samba, when will you get it that the consumer decides for themselves what rules? "PS. Linux still rules." Anyway, I guess this concludes this silly debate and I hope there aren't any hard feelings. Later

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As I was about to turn my comp off I started to think about what Zmba said "Halo, no I don’t read most of your message ", that mean you were judging on pure fuel and you never paid attention to my post but yet you made comments on what I said about others.........now what would you call that? Ifyou did that, then others may have too, This is the type of behaviour that I was talking about with Linux people. That is why I use the word "followers" so much. that obviously meant that you were going off the opinion of others...........I rest my case. Having Calc 3 makes someone a scholar and a gentlemen? Calc 3 is required for most computer related area of study in order to graduate in college you know, but then again, some people never been to College so they wouldn't know about that. I am only in high school and I do calc 1, does that make me a scholar? No, so then how does.............you know what forget it...........everyone has their opinions and it might just stir up another silly debate. Later people(to all those who don't skip it that is). PS. Jake, I am guessing that you have going to this forum for quite a bit of time so I'll ask you, was there any post with as much replies as this because I have seen a post with so many replies.

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I never see so much debate over two OS that suck. I use freebsd it is like a rock. To me the only difference between linux and M$ is M$ is control what people use and Linux wants to control what people use. True test is ether way you chooice to go is up to you no one else should choice for you. I choice freebsd because it a rock I try the others the just do not do the job My opion anyways know lets see how more debate go on because people are sheep and very few think for them selfs.. George Orwells was right except goverment does control thought the internet does

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Halo "IE is the most compliant browser(that is a fact and not an opinion)." You've got to be kidding right? take your own advice "Do some more reading" "Products that are widely used among the Windows platform is just not available on Linux unless it is a water down version of a product or unless you have a emulator." Where do you think the TCP/IP stack for windows came from... ripped off version from BSD unix. Then there's GIMP, emacs, BIND, sendmail, pine, mutt, not to mention Gnome and KDE and the list could go on ad infinitum "Another thing, Nutscrape Navigator/Communicator still needs work and even their newest browser, Mozilla, which is based on Nutscrape still has alot of problems." Ah... Mozilla is the engine that netscape6 runs on. Not as you in error point out the other way. "Linux is very much stable because it has no software that really takes advantage of it's capability as in Windows." Your complete and total ignorance is summed up in this statement you made! the BSD's/Linux handle programs and memory usage in a completly different way from windows and therefore are better suited and able to handle the demands put on them. It certainly is not because of the software. Yahoo, Hotmail (back end servers), walnut creek (the busiest/largest ftp site in the world) use freeBSD. Gee... isnt hotmail a ms owned operation? One last minor thing there Halo... if you want to be taken seriously don't criticize people's slang... "Cruptr used the word "Windoze"(which is constantly used by people who very battles between os's) as a substitution for "Windows". Maybe I wasn't worng about Cruptr being a follower." when you do the same thing ie nutscrape for netscape. Get your facts straight before you post son, then you atleast won't look as imatture as you appear to be jeff

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my friend, you do more reading, IE is the most compatible browser to date, it is the only browser that is compatible with all the internet standards. "Where do you think the TCP/IP stack for windows came from... ripped off version from BSD unix" using code that is open to the public is not "ripping off" from another os and it doesn't matter how the stack or whatever came about, the fact still remians that some version odf software is just still not available on and some that is available( notice that I said some and not all) are just water down versions of the MS release. I didn't bring up those point to devalue Linux or any Unix varient, I said that to show that Linux is not perfect as people try to make it seem. I am yet to find a os that is the is perfect! Nutscrape was not something I heard from others, hence, I was not following and I never insulted the slang "windoze"...........moron..lol. I said that cruptr use the..................oh well...........some people just will never be able to fully comprehend.......I give up. You said that IE is not the most compliant browser, how about backing up your belief, tell me which one is along with a link to the site where the information is located? And as far what you said about Linux handling memory usage better than any other MS and they are as well as "Yahoo, Hotmail (back end servers), walnut creek (the busiest/largest ftp site in the world) use freeBSD." , I have one thing to say, did you even read the part where I quite clearly said that not everybody wants to run servers? I may be wrong on this but I could have sworn that Unix and IIS was the most dominate used for running servers......how about posting a valid link(one that is not biased) that is not not an stictly Linux or MS site that says what you state is true.

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Hello, Linux users, please don't attack me for this, but you must admit that Linux people think they are more important than they really are. If you go into a Linux chatroom and say that you are a "newbie" and you ask a question about Linux it is more than likely that people will ignore and some who don't know the answer to your question won't just admit it and direct you to where you can find better help(don't get me wrong, some will) and it is likely that they just tell you to read and read but don't even tell you where to go to find the sources and then out of the blue someone talks about switching from Windows to LInux and then the debate starts. If you go in a MS room and ask a question, it is more than likely that people will be glad to help you and if they can't, they admit rather than pretending to ignore the person. and if someone mentions Linux(usually a linux person in the ms room when they are bored) you won't hear people debating about which one is better, they careless and just listen to what the Linux person has to say and then continue with what they were talking about. Just cool people and don't be so critical against one another, this os discrimination has to stop. Nighthawk

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Have any of you noticed that Linux and MS is like the never ending argument about wealthy and middle class people. The middle class (Linux) always insults the wealthy (MS) saying that they are lazy and always want people or they case of OS, applications, to do everything for them. Their insecurity (linux users) makes them always try to show why the are better and say that wealthy people don't know what it means to work and so fourth. They always try to prove that they are worth something and that they are the most dominate. If you are, then there is no need to prove anything because you are already sure of yourself. The wealthy, don't care about what they try to prove and pay no attention to it and keep on moving. SOme try to help out when they can by donating or whatever and then keep on going because they don't have time to waste with stupidness. Don't hate, embrace and stop all this nonsense people, smarten up people.

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nice debate here... halo's rising blood pressure is gonna end him any day now... halo I sugest you get out of this forum halo, linux people don't want you here... chris is right though, stop this arguing and move on.. i'm not exactly a hater of microsoft OSs but their not really something to be excited about and linux? how many people actually use it? (i'm one of them along with a good number of people in business because they think ms is expensive) its been a few days now, i don't even see cruptr anymore... he started a pretty nice debate

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My experiences with browser compatability: I had my web page set up as transitional HTML 4.01 with CSS. I figured I'd test my skills and make it strict HTML (see validator.w3.org/). Anyway, it worked great in Mozilla, but IE 6 didn't render my tables right anymore. IE didn't support sizing tables from CSS (which is required in strict HTML now). My friend runs a forum that looks great in Mozilla, validates as XHTML, and even looks fine in IE 5. In IE 6, however, all the message titles are centered when they're not supposed to be. PNGs render wrong in IE, but are correct under Mozilla. The problems are with alpha and gamma (see www.w3.org/Graphics/PNG/). The alpha may have been fixed in IE 6. Another problem with IE is that it deviates from the standards and attempts to fix bad code. Never try to learn HTML using a text editor and checking the results in IE. I tried to make my web page that way, but much of my code was non-standard (mainly bad tables) and only worked in IE. The problem is that most people use IE right now, so people don't care if they write broken HTML/CSS, as long as it works in IE. This will change when AOL begins using the Mozilla rendering engine.

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i installed linux mandrake 7 because i may need to use linux when i go on work experience in a couple of months, and i really enjoy using it, but i find it challenging for my young little brain, and i can't find a driver for my modem (and it appears that there isnt one___conexant hcf v90 56k speakerphone pci modem.) I still use windows for the majority of my time on computer but i would like to be able to do more in linux. If anyone has the time, i would like to be given some hints about different versions of linux and anything you think would be useful, but i appreciate that you are not all school(girls) with time on your hands. http://www.512productions.com/windowssucks/index.html here is an amusing link for those who dont like windows (written at the time of Win95) hope you dont think my contibution is a total waste of space, but i would love some hints and if anyone knows of somewhere i can get that driver i would love to know that too! love from Helen (hellishdemon2000@hotmail.com/lineone.net)

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i think some of you have made good and valid points on both sides of the debate i have used different versions of MS windows and my personal oppinion is that the newer the version the more control the OS has over the system. the reason i started reading this debate is that i am thinking of installing LINUX alongside my windows98se. i am not trying to degrade microsoft when i say that there is problems with the OS as i think it is hard to produce somthing that is used all over the world by people who have a WIDE veriety of components installed into there computers and also when a computer with windows crashes people automatically blame the OS when it could easyly be a badly written program/driver that the user has installedthat is the problem. i want to try linux because i am courius as to how it runs and i want to give it a try and to put my own personal oppinion on it as everyone said before its what suits the user.

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Nighthawk I am not attach you but most linux user are not answer your question is because it hard to learn it not just push an icon and hope it works and do not worry what it does. I will be the first linux user to admit this. Windows is easyer way easier. However, Linux is not limited to use it and because of that you have to read and learn your self. It hard but once learn you understand why linux user will rather give web sight so you learn yourself. Any can tell press this icon , press this next button, Linux you have to know what to do and noone is tryin to igore you they try point you to right web site so you can learn for yourself. So if seems we mean to you its not that all just Linux user believe in learning things for themslefs and will glad to point web pages or the book so you can learn yourself how to do what you want to do. "Give some a fish the eat a day, Teah someone how to fish the eat for live"

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I don't think you properly read nighthawk's post. He stated that Linux users do not want to admit that they do not know something and I agree with him on that for I have seen it for myself. He said that very few(emphasis on very few) may point you to a website (which sounds to be good in his statement) but some will pretend they didn't see the question just for the fact that they don't know and don't want to admit they just don't know(too much pride I think). It is not about being spoonfed the information. He is trying to say that the difference between the Windows chat and Linux chats is that Windows people will admit they don't know and will point you to a link that will most likely help you rahter than insulting you and and starting a "windows vs. Linux debate". He is stating that Windows users cares to debate on which os is better. I some people just just look over what other people post and see what they want to see and not what is said. Einstein stated that we must question, question, question, the more we question is the more answers we receive from porblems that remain unsolved from lacking the abilility to completely understand somethings. It doesn't make someone lazy, or less smarter than anyone else for the benefits of understanding is too much of a reward to let ist pass you by. That does not mean that effort should not be pushed forth and want to receive answers for everything when you know nothing. Anyway, later people and once again, no hard feelings.

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Halo You and nighthawk may be correct on posting stupid debate Linux users tends to want to defend the OS and Windows just what to try solve your issues and igore post suck of this one. However, no linux going take the time to give steps on an issue that a users has. It just easyer to point someone to point to a web site and have read for themself. After all as user dose he want to learn Linux or not if not stick with Windows it eayser. However, if going go into the linux world you have to learn yourslef it just that simple. Do not get wrong if a real simple answer user will post the answer. Usually it take alot typing to solve someone issue and the issue has already be solve so why revent the wheel? It make no sense. Windows chat seems friendly becaus eethe OS is friendly. Click this icon click next , next are sure yes. Usually what a WIndows user would type in. A linux if the type in whould look like this: /etc ed some.cfg change this line and that might be the simplest where some configuration may take a whole page. So point the user to the web site let them read the information and solve them self after all there no greater satisifation to learn yourself. Alseat my 2 cents worth. "Learning is a key it does not open the door for you. You need to use the key and open the door yourself"

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linux sounds hard but i love to work with computers and i am the type of person who loves to do a bit of problem solving and linux sounds like a platform that i will love to use and have a look around every sungle nut and crannie to find out how it works and what everything does. i agree that windows is a simple and easy to use operating system and if you follow the basic rules you will have no problem using it the basic rules are:- left click on somthing and you get the basic function. right click it and you get a menu so you can do other things with it. high light before right clicking to enable OPEN WITH. easy

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ok, this is making me sick right now. Listen Aplus, I didn't say anything about spoonfeeding! I didn't say anything was wrong with pointing you to a website, I was saying that Linux users don't want to admit they do not know how to do something and only a very few will admit they don't know and point you to a website that may help you out. If you read, read, read, read, then you will see that I am saying that is good to point you to a website that can assist you better. I said that when you go into MS chats, epople will be more than glad to help you and will admit they do not know something and will gladly point you to a website that may help you as opposed to Linux chats. What is so f---ing hard to comprehend people. Everything I say is what I see, it doesn't have to be something that has happened to me. I have been using computers since I was in kindergarden! I know enough in Linux to manage myself and what I don't know I could look up or ask my friends. So stop misinterpreting things. Another thing, why are you all making Linux seem much harder than it really is? that is another way of trying to say that Linux users are pros, don't try that s---, Linux is not that easy for the average computer user, but it is not that hard now that all these distros are coming out with this piece of crap and that piece of crap so don't try to make yourself sound better than you are. You can get through alot of Linux distros without using the commandline nowadays, that is, Mandrake, Redhat, SUSE, Debian, Elx, Redmond,and so forth. you don't need to do rpm -Uvh --no --deps, ./configure, make, make install, bin/sbin, etc/modules.conf or whatever. Those ar more for the barebones OS like Slackware and others. They have alot of tools to get you artound, some poepl that have used the old command line Linux are used to it and when others asked for help, it was passed on so stop trying to make Linux look harder than it really is. again, I'll say that is not easy to pick up for the average user but just remember I said that Linux doesn't make you smart and Windows can be just as complex but who gives a fu...........

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you guys are still actually at it? go on.. go on.. this is really interesting

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Arcon I not going fight with Halo. Most his poins are correct Linux user will not admit when they do not know something. All I saying most who do will not give any answers simple because they do not spoonfeed users that all and believe or not Halo most linux have a fast knowledge aleast my two cents worth. However that aside I still agree with you some linux will not admit they do not know anything but even they know a link is that not good enough? I mean to mee that all I ask for but hey thats me. Anyways I do not want start any fight which your clearly not try at all we saying the same thing except my opion is that even if the linux user does not know anything and happens to point to a web page that good enough it shows to me that he/she knows where or a start point to finding an answer. Also I agree Linux is harder if read read read my comment you see I allways said that. anyhow if you feel linux users are not be friendly maybe that true it take a long time to learn it so they feel others have learn too. Anyhow if you going to dive into this OS it you have learn most likely by links. Regardless what you think of me, or liux user in general, or the linux OS does not matter to me. However, if ever did learn then you understand why it is magical. Anyhow, I hope yoou find answer what ever you choice

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You still don't get it do you? I said giving a link is good and I said that doesn't pertain to me because I have a good knowledge of it and what i don't know I could look up or ask my friends who extremely good at it. So stop saying spoonfeeding. I am saying that most of them will not even give you a link! I didn't say a link is bad, I am saying a link is good but some of them won't admit it enough to even give you a link, only very few will.I don't categorize myself as a linux user because i use multiple OS and I use eacxh at whatever the operations call for. i am tired of repeating myself. Read it and fully understand it before you comment on it. About not being able to help people with Linux because it is complicated is completet bull. That is saying that the personal lack the technical skills to aid someone, i will admit that there are some operations that are a bit complicated, but using "linux is complicated" excuse is just what it is, an excuse. I was able to help people with alot of problems when I first started using Linux and alot of questions that I see remained unanswered I myself answer for people and offer them a link with more information regarding their issue. Some problems linux users make it seem harder than they really are, as i said before, you don't need the command line for everything but I have a knowledge of the commandline in case of anything. Most Linux distros has tools that are more self explainatory and Linux users from the old days of commandline are used to itand when others ask for help they pass it on and that make it look like everything is done at the commandline. So when someone keeps on saying "linux is too complicated to explain" I would accept that for some but not for most, I mean come on, I was frigging giving helping people when I was a amatuer and answering questions that other Linux people was saying "Linux is too complicated to explain, go read". I was able to tell my brother a couple of things and now he seems much better than me in Linux. Spoonfeeding and assisting is two different things so on't get them mixed together. Later.

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