I just knew the reaction my post would get!! I am a Linux "newbie" but I have been in computers since they were analogue & worked my way up through DOS & it's incarnations. Now, I have managed to get a Linux Server up & running with Samba on my network, I can see & use my Windows XP machines & when booted into Linux I can see them too. My point is that I am at least in the business but I still found it a steep learning curve so what chance of an average user ever getting Linux to work? That is my point. Until Linux gets to a point where it's arcane procedures are cleaned up the 50 or 60 million users out there on Windows are simply not going to bother, hence my comments which are based on my experience short as it is and to which I am perfectly entitled. As far as reliability is concerned, four years ago we could not keep an NT4 server up for 24 hours now not far from where I am sitting we have Windows 2000 & NT4 servers which haven't been down for two years. Microsoft HAVE moved on & if Linux wants to really compete then it is time it started and a new kernel alone is not going to do it! Give me a kernel with PnP approaching Windows & I might reconsider but I stand by what I have said! Liked the Chinese allegory though!!

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"Until Linux gets to a point where it's arcane procedures are cleaned up the 50 or 60 million users out there on Windows are simply not going to bother..." "Microsoft HAVE moved on & if Linux wants to really compete then it is time it started and a new kernel alone is not going to do it! Give me a kernel with PnP approaching Windows & I might reconsider..." You seem to have the idea that there is some monolithic "Linux Inc." corporation out there somewhere and that 'they' are trying to compete against Microsoft. It just doesn't work like that: Although it would be fair to say that at least some distribution companies are trying to do this, it is not they who actually make the software - they are mere collectors and packagers. The Linux kernel developers mostly don't give a monkey's about the 50-60 million Windows users - why should they? - they are trying to create a fast,stable,efficient and open standards based OS and as a moment's consideration will reveal; things like the PnP compatibility of hardware in Windows is mostly down to the hardware manufacturers themselves. The same goes for the GNU project developers and the developers of all the other FLOSS projects that the distros collect together. With a few exceptions, they don't give a toss about Microsoft users, the "home user market" or whether the procedures involved in configuring and using the software they make seem too arcane to the point 'n' click brigade. GNU/Linux is not about 'competing' with Microsoft - it is about using open source methods of collaboration and open standards to develop a high quality Unix-like OS that provides a platform upon which other developers can use the same model to produce other kinds of software. The people that make it are distributed all over the world, mostly don't get paid directly for their work and are not going to be fired from 'Linux' because they've failed to help 'Linux' to encroach on Microsoft's market share. Now I can understand how it can be confusing when you see a shrink-wrapped box set of GNU/Linux based software and it may be tempting to compare it directly to Microsoft's offerings but it is wrong to do so. The distribution companies may like to encourage people to think in this way - after all it _is_ possible to produce a distro at least as good as Windows - but in reality GNU/Linux is not the product of a single company whose sole aim is to pander to the needs of the technologically illiterate end user and maximise their profits. You should consider a free distro as a convenient launch platform from which you are expected to explore the world of free software on your own and make things work for yourself. I can tell you this: To get my desktop computer running the way it is now - with it's speed and stability, the plethora of very sophisticated mathematical and scientific software and programming tools I use, the excellent music and video players and the myriad of other fun and useful software I use and the sheer aesthetic beauty of my desktop - would have been either impossible or extremely and prohibitively expensive with any proprietary solution. Sure, I had to work at it and learn a hell of a lot of stuff that sometimes I might wish I hadn't had to, even to the point of becoming involved in the development process itself but with Microsoft's locked down, closed and secret "we know best" model, I would never have had the opportunity and never have found the freedom and power I have now.

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Thank you for that & I am not being sarcastic, it does explain a lot. I did actually go out & bought the Red Hat Enterprise Workstation, shrink wrapped, the lot, cost me about $100.00. I then find out it cannot identify my wireless card & I finish up having to get a driver & recompile the kernel to get it to work & I am thinking, "Hang on, what the hell did I pay for?" so your comments are perfectly valid because my reaction was a typical Microsoft user's one. I paid good money & it doesn't work! I have salved my Scottish conscience by putting the money down to training aids! but I don't recomend anyone else BUYING Red Hat shrink wrapped. You win some, you lose some.

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Yes, the commercial distros do their best and they do actually contribute software (like configuration tools and usability improvements) but when they charge that much for what is essentially a collection of free software they should at least provide damned good documentation and support. Of course even if they do provide a limited duration support service with their box sets it'll expire eventually, but then you can take advantage of the community oriented nature of GNU/Linux and find plenty of help online; primarily in the IRC channels, where besides there being a great deal of expertise in general, many software projects have dedicated channels where the people that actually make the software and distros can be found. There are also the developer and user mailing lists of all the major projects and the bug trackers of course and you might find it useful to join your local LUG. You should not think you are alone, struggling with some proprietary product for which the only help available is either from a drone on the end of an expensive telephone support line or whatever the other unfortunate and powerless users in the same situation can do. Of course you cannot go around angrily demanding support and service but I have lost count of the number of times I have communicated a problem directly to the developer of some software and it has been solved or I have fixed it myself or someone else has and has sent in the patch for everyone else's benefit. So even if you did buy the original box set for $100 you should not be fooled by that into thinking it means you have engaged in an ordinary product transaction in which there exists only the product itself and the single unbalanced and possibly uncooperative relationship you have with it's vendor. The vendor, the packaging and the money are superficial irrelevancies compared to the fact that you have joined a worldwide community of users and developers in which (almost) everyone is trying to help everyone else rather than extract the maximum possible revenue from them.

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Well I just have to say a word or two. I bought my first PC in late 2001. A piece of crap sony with XP preinstalled. I then bought a few books. I built a PC in spring 2004 installed XP pro. It works good is a good gaming PC. I upgraded the vidio card and M$ locked me out of my own PC. That day I bought some more books. Linux books. I then bought the RedHat 7.3 Bible. Built another PC and installed RH 7.3 very fine machine. I now run Fedora core on one PC and Slackware on another old PC besides my XP Gaming box. I use Linux 90 % of the time. I boot into Windoze just to play games and run updates. I keep up with what is going on in the way of virus and worms etc on my Linux PC so I know when it is safe to go online in windoz. While everyone else is worried about the next worm or virus I am fairly sure that as long as I am not running as root my Linux box will not let me down. That is what I like about Linux Not having to worry about Spyware and having to reboot all the time. Take Care Ron

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