I currently run WinXP. I have installed a second HDD so I could install Linux (Mepis) and leave my C: drive with XP untouched. I would like to run this as a dual boot. I have never installed or even used a non-Windows OS except for running Mepis and a few other Linux OSs off of a live CD.

My second HDD is 320 GB. Lots of space for oter OS and lots of storage. It is not partitioned and is currently formatted as NTFS. It’s essentially untouched. My question has to do with the best way of installing Mepis on this new, second HDD. All of the Mepis and other Linux guides assume you’ve partitioned a single HDD so the installation guides tend to be skewed towards this scenario. Does anyone using Mepis or similar know of a good beginner installation source or one geared towards installing on a second hard drive for dual boot?

Should I install Mepis (ext3) on to the ‘entire’ second HDD and then resize and create the other storage/swap partitions (NTFS, FAT32, ext3) using QTParted, which comes with Mepis? Or should I create partitions first using the Maxtor utility that came with the second HDD (or Windows Disk Management) before installing Mepis? Also most guides show installation on “/hda” partitions, but because my second HDD is a slave, QTParted (off of the Mepis live CD) sees this as “/sda”. Can I install on sda?

I want to keep Windows as my primary OS, but still want to have the dual boot option. If I want to dual boot will I have to change the boot order in my BIOS first? I have it set to finding CDDVD then my one and then my HDD with Windows. Do I need to move the second HDD up in order of boot sequence? Do I need to put the GRUB anywhere special? Put GRUB in MBR? I hope I did not screw these explanations up. Any caveats and advice or information sources are appreciated.

Also, what is the difference b/w GParted and QTParted…not a big deal question? Just asking.

I think I’ll leave it at that. I have looked at so many Linux and Mepis websites that I think I need human advice.

Thanks

ERG

If it matters, both HDD in my machine are SATA

http://apcmag.com/6101/dualboot_win...

I find the cleanest and easiest way is to use the BIOS method of dual booting like you have mentioned, I have it that way right now on 3 machines and prefer that to using GRUB or any other method of using an MBR loader.
In a nut shell if something were to ever go wrong with one of the OS's you only have to be concerned with that one drive and not have to deal with the mess that can occur if you mix the drives together....just my two cents

Keep the old stuff running

LinuxOS,

Do you know how I could go about doing this in my BIOS? I actually was not referring to that, but Im untrigued nonetheless.

Could I delete the GRUB in the MBR by using a WinXP system (boot?) floppy and using the "fdisk /mbr" command at the A: prompt?

Let me warn you a bit. Installing linux may not allow you access to your xp for a while or ever.

If you insist a good way is to set bios to the second drive and be careful on how you install the OS. (READ) Then to go back to win just use bios or if installed the built-in to motherboard boot option hot key. (some boards allow that on boot)

You should make a full ntbackup of your xp with system state and store it on some external or networked or dvd before you go any farther.

Then consider simply live CD's. They offer almost anything an install would do but safer.

Then consider a virtual machine. Many are as fast as a native install. What I mean is there are programs like MS Word for example there instead of a text file you actually run the OS in an emulator. Very safe and quick.

Lastly is the install. Be sure you make a copy of the MBR before you start.

I know of no linux or ms install that "LIKES" each other. Count on getting on the internet and seeing how to edit what where to get it going. Different linux distros call things and use different terms a lot.

I suggest that you see the virtual machines already built at vmware and install the latest vmplayer or vmserver. Don't mess with a dual boot until you get to where you can reload everything a few times.

I read it wrong and answer it wrong too. So get off my case you goober.

The safe way that I know is is to temporally disconnect your primary hard drive "the one with XP" and then to setup your new Linux drive and then after everything is working with the new install reattach your primary and then go into BIOS and choose what drive you want to boot to....HTH

Keep the old stuff running

LinuxOS,

If I did this, yould I always have to go to Bios to boot to the desired OS? There's no way to dual boot in your recent scenario, correct?

Yes you will have to go into BIOS to work it the way I mentioned, but still as jefro pointed out above and I am thinking probably the same way as he that if you can do this without a BOOT LOADER the safer you will be while learning more about this....

Q? "There's no way to dual boot in your recent scenario, correct?"

A: yes you would be able to install a DUAL BOOT later but for your sake we are hoping for you to get this working without causing any problems with your XP platform....

So this is my stance, because you have 2 drives to work with I made my first reply, had you only been working with 1 drive I would not have jumped in, I know this is a bit confusing we just don't want you to suffer the problems others have had when attempting this.

Keep asking your questions as we are here to help the best way we can....

Keep the old stuff running

Thanks to all. This thread is not done yet. And all of your adviuce (from everyone) is sinking in. I realized that as much homework I had done, I had not done nearly enough

If you simply want to try Linux. why don't you install a virtual machine then install Linux in the vm? You can get VMware, or Virtual Box. Both are commercial products, but Virtual Box is free for personal use with versions for Windows and Linux Host environments.

There are several advantages to using a vm to try another OS:

You install the other OS to a file, not directly to the HD so you never do anything to the MBR.

No re-partitioning needed.

No entering the BIOS to choose the OS to boot.

Removing all traces of the other OS is as easy as deleting the vm file on which it is installed.

No need to reboot to get to the other OS.

If you have the needed disk space, you can install several OS's and run them side by side (each in its own window).

Mandriva Linux is my primary OS here (with 512 MB RAM) and I use Virtual Box O S E (the Open Source Edition) to host my installation of MS Windows because I do some Windows support and it makes it easier to walk through procedures or reproduce problems. I also have a Linux vm set up to check out other distributions. I can download iso CD or DVD image files and boot the vm from an image file as if it were a CD-ROM drive (e.g.: I can boot from my choice of Live CD images in the vm without burning any image to disk).

When (if) you find that you spend more time in Linux than Windows, you can rearrange things as you then choose (dual-boot or even boot Linux and run MS in a vm).

If you choose to use Virtual Box, thee is one advantage to using the Free For Personal Use Full Version over the Open Source one - you get an iso containing the guest additions with the full version. The guest additions significantly enhance your Virtual Box experience in terms of usability and functionality.

HTH,

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744

ernie,

Thanks much. This option is on the table for sure. I have not been this humbled in a long time. I thought this would be very easy but thinking ahead to potential problems especially with MBR have me a bit shy.

erg

If you decide to set up a dual boot scenario
and something does go wrong (e.g.: the
install fails and the MBR will not boot
Windows), you can restore the MBR using the
Windows XP install disk. Boot to the repair
console and run the fixmbr utility (replaces
the fdisk /mbr command from Win 9X days).

The installation routines for modern Linux
distributions are quite stable, but you
should understand that unexpected things can
happen. When you spend a lot of time at
Linux help forums you hear all the horror
stories you could imagine, but for each
horror story there are probably thousands of
success stories no one ever hears about
because nothing went wrong.

The best way to protect yourself is to
create an image of your system as it is
before installing a Linux distribution, then
if the worst happens, you will be able to
return your system to the state it was in
when the images were made.

Several solutions are available for the creation of partition images. Drive Image is a commercial solution (I have never used it), BootItng is a shareware solution (works well), Partimage is an Open Source solution which runs in a terminal window and provides a Character User Interface. You can get it and several other utilities (useful when disaster strikes) with System Rescue CD, a bootable CD image you can download and burn to disk.

HTH,

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744

ernie,

I have used Drive Image in the past and now I use an image software that came with external HDD that I use solely for backups. I cant do the "FIXMBR" because I dont have an admin password for my XP (long story)and it would take a repair install to to get password, which I have tried but repair installs do more harm than good IMO. Also, I cannto seem to get a boot floppy or CD to get me able to "fdisk /mbr". I (think) I have followed all instrcution but none have worked. Know a source for this? I tried Ultimate Boot CD, but Dell computers hate UBCD.

Is there a way to back up the MBR only and to restore just the MBR? Images become out of date after a while and I would likely only need to restore the MBR

IIRC, BootItng has that ability.

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744

See also ranish, should be on the ultimate boot cd (not to be confused with ubcd4win)

I read it wrong and answer it wrong too. So get off my case you goober.

jefro and ernie,

So I really could choose partition to boot without messing with MBR! Wow! Thanks.

I'm also still thinking about the virtual machine. can you recommended a good Linux version to try on the VM? Ubuntu is closest to Mepis that I could see. Not sure why I like Mepis--only ran it off live CDs. It did like my video card. others did not.

Now other question. Do I need to know any tricks to let the third party do the booting? I'm asking more so for the Linux install and subsequent partition than windows. I can always fix windows myself I guess I should read the documentation.

I really appreciate everyones' input. been using this board for six years and its always been good to me.

Quote: "can you recommended a good
Linux version to try on the VM?"

I do not see any reason you can not use
Simply Mepis if that is the distribution you
prefer. Since I use Virtual Box here (and it
has a Windows version) information I give
will be with reference to it.

You can direct VB to use your Simply Mepis
iso image file as if it were a 'Virtual' CD
ROM drive (mount CD/DVD drive > iso image)
or put the Simply Mepis CD in the physical
CD ROM drive and direct VB to access the
drive (mount CD/DVD drive > Host CD/DVD
drive). Either way, after you have set up
the VM for a Linux guest OS, start it and
the VM will boot from the 'CD'. If the
Simply Mepis CD has an installer, you should
be able to install to the VM's HD as if it
were a real computer.

Quote: "Do I need to know any
tricks to let the third party do the
booting?"

I an unsure of which 'third party' you are
speaking. (Sorry if I am a bit thick
today :).)

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744

ernie,

And I was going to give up. Thx guy

erg

Let us know how it goes

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744

I am reading the tech doc for virtual box right now. I'll keep you posted. Dumb question: Can I install VB on non-boot HDD so that VB does not install on my C:? My second HDD could still be a legit "windows host" as far as I know..then from there run "linux guest" in VB?

Probably not able to do this...probably just install VB to my C drive

way more reading to do

I suggest you install Virtual Box as you would any program, then you can put the file in which you will emulate the Hard Drive for the virtual machine in the location of your choice. Your D drive will work just fine for this.

Put simply, Virtual Box is a program that pretends to be a computer. When you set it up for your Linux installation it will create a file on your hard drive and pretend that the file it creates is its hard drive. You will put a Linux installation CD in your CD drive, or you will tell Virtual Box to use the iso image for a Linux installation CD and to pretend it is a CD drive, then you will start the virtual machine. It will boot from the CD (or iso image) and you will install your Linux distribution as if you were installing it to a real computer. After installing Linux to your virtual machine, when you start it, Linux will boot just as if it was on its own real computer.

The file you create to emulate the hard drive will be big (should be 8 to 10 GB or even bigger if you have the room). All the software and any files you create in the virtual machine will be stored in this file.

HTH,

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744

It worked. Installed Mepis on VB. Installed on C but will move it to second HDD. Very impressed with VB. Speed is better than I thought it would be

I am happy you like it. I had a similar
experience the first time I ran Windows XP
in Virtual Box because it ran faster than
expected.

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744

Having a bear of time getting 'linux guest additions' installed. Dont know file archtecture of linux well enough to understand directions. I am going to start over and reintall on second HDD (was going to anyways). At least, I know what to expect now.

Also taking recommendations of other good linux versions for beginners to run on VB.

The Guest additions iso image should be located at:

/opt/VirtualBox-1.4.0/additions/VBoxGuestAdditions.iso

Set the CD/DVD ROM to use the VBoxGuestAdditions.iso image, then start Virtual Box and let your Linux installation load.

I will give direction for using a terminal window (much like a DOS box, but far more powerful) for clarity because point-and-click is easy to do but hard to describe clearly.

Open a terminal window.

Make yourself the root user:

su

The command processor will request your root password.

Mount the CD ROM (iso image):

mount /media/cdrom

The CD-ROM drive (iso image) will be mounted in read-only mode, so you will have to copy the VBoxLinuxAdditions.run file to your home directory:

cp /media/cdrom/VBoxLinuxAdditions.run ~/

Set the executable flag for the VBoxLinuxAdditions.run file so Linux can execute it:

chmod +x ~/VBoxLinuxAdditions.run

Now you are ready to run it:

~/VBoxLinuxAdditions.run

Note: The tilde character (/) represents the current user's home directory, so ~/VBoxLinuxAdditions.run indicates the file named VBoxLinuxAdditions.run located in the current users home directory.

HTH,

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744

Thx ernie. Last night I got the .iso all ready to go, host CD mounted,but could not figure figure out the "virtual cd" portion of the directions. I will let you know how it goes. Wife need to use computer tonight so maybe by tomorrow I can do this. I THINK I understand your directions. I'll find out soon enough.

Funny thing is I keep looking for the windows explorer each time I use Linux. I did not think all of this would be so Greek to me, but I do understand the terminal usage

I am happy to be of help. One thing I like
about providing direction using the terminal
window is that the command set is fairly
universal across Linux distributions. Each
distribution may add its own specific
commands (e.g.: Mandriva includes a set of
text mode commands for the utilities
included in the Mandriva Control Center),
but the basic command set (copy, move,
delete, change directory, change mode,
change owner, etc.) is relatively standard
Linux wide. If you are familiar with the
command prompt some commands will be
familiar (cd = change directory, set will
set an environment variable or display the
contents of the environment) and others will
be a bit foreign (cp = copy, mv = move, rm =
remove) until you get used to using them,
then MS DOS will seem crippled. The bash
command interpreter includes a very
sophisticated programming command set
including case and if-then-else decision
making statements, for, while, and when
loops, and you can even create functions.
Because bash is a command interpreter, it
can not execute commands as quickly as a
compiled program, but it can be used to
prototype an application.

You will find that the Konqueror File
Manager is at least as good as Windows
Explorer (I think its better) for GUI file
management. One feature I particularly like
is the ability to open directories in a new
tab (I'm not sure if Explorer does that). If
you prefer a Norton Commander style twin
panel file manager you may want to check out
KDE's Krusader. I have not used it
extensively, but it is very configurable.

I'll be waiting to see how you go, and I
hope you enjoy your Linux explorations.

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744

Update:

Bought Acronis DD10. Installed it and installed Mepis. Installed GRUB to root and not MBR. Had to install OSS because even though Linux partition was active, GRUB did not activate and Windows booted. figured if I uninstall Linux then I will have to uninstall the OSS then the Linux partitions. Looks like OSS lets you choose where to boot after it is uninstalled. Is this the same as it "pre-restoring" the MBR before you remove it? Probably not...

I thinks its a success. Not sure. Now, what do I do with Linux? I dont even know where to begin....I was so concerned with the install that I did not prepare for configuring it. Should I download all updates, etc. from synaptic?

Most Linux distributions release updates for
two main reasons:

Security fixes

Bug fixes

There is a third reason, but it is less
common:

Software Update (new version)

I make it a part of my system administration
procedure to check for, and (if needed)
install updates regularly.

One of the best features of Open Source
software is the fact that millions of eyes
are looking at the code daily. Security
weaknesses and bugs are found quickly and
fixed, making for a very short window of
opportunity for those who would take
advantage. Keeping your system software
updated is one of the simplest and most
important steps you can take in keeping your
system stable and secure.

HTH,

Ernie Registered Linux User 247790
ICQ 41060744