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I am curious, why won't they create a universal adapter for motherboards and case connectors for the power button, reset button, leds, etc. Also, why do they cram everything and host design them in a way where everything is easily accessible? All of the motherboards I have owned they only allow a hair of space betweeen video cards, cmos reset, HDD, etc. I rather have extremely easy to install motherboards then advanced technology.
Mb space costs money. Since there are many manufacturers of cases and mainboards, getting them to agree on a connector standard and stay with it is difficult.
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I wouldn't mind paying extra to save an hour or headache off the install time. Plus after sending my ABIT KN8 motherboard back due to random BSOD that I found out a lot of other people are having, I am reading all of the reviews for just about every mobo at Newegg and all of them have bad reviews. So picking the right mobo is like playing the lottery.
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If they made mobos easier then the system builders would lose most of their business lol.
Matt
matt@webgrafix.co.uk
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Yeah that is the real reason. In fact everything is getting a lot more complex for no good reason other to keep companies in business. During the 96 - 2000 era pretty much everything you could do yourself such as fix your car, stereos, computers, etc. Now cars computers that only the manufacturer can fix and not just an ordinary mechanic. This really sucks. I have built about 6 computers in the past and never had problems until now.
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I can see that those of you who are complaining haven't spent your life working on some of the stuff I've worked on
Automobiles. Ever tried to change plugs in a V8 Vega? A Sunbeam Tiger? Big block Mustang? On my old Roadrunner, the original exhaust was welded, was pulled inward near the cross member, and had a welded in cross pipe. This made things VERY difficult to pull the 4 speed for a clutch change. Some of the old '60's Chivvies required you to pull the entire right front fender to get at a heater/AC problem. For years, stupid Ford made up the heater hose connections on the INSIDE of the car, which means that if they ever leak, or need replacement, you run the risk of having antifreeze leaking all over the interior.
One of the cars I have now takes about an hour and a half just to change a battery. You have to remove the air cleaner and piping, some of the fender bracing, and few other parts.
Electronics. I've worked on amateur radios, commercial two way, and RADAR equipment that just plain wasn't made to be worked on, period. some seemingly simple component, regulator, switch, relay, can sometimes require that much of the unit be dissassembled.
Computers are easy.
I don't know about other laptops, but I've got some Thinkpads, and I've had just about all of them apart at some point. Coupled with the "hardware maintenance manual" from IBM, and just a very few tools, you can tear them all down to the basics.
Computers are easy.
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Well I am only going on what my friends and myself have experienced over the years. In fact last month a friend of mine had to take a car back because it would shut off for no reason and the mechanics couldn't figure out why. After spending $500 to replace everything that their diagnostic said what could be the problem, it turned out that it was just a computer problem sending false signals to the engine. So he got rid of that 2004 car and got a used 98 car and it runs perfectly.
The same with the computers I have built. In the past I just slapped the cpu into the motherboard, connected the wires and popped in the case, made minor tweaks in the BIOS and install windows and I was done. Now you have to play detective to resolve problems that are not in the manual or tech support.
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name-97 Monte Carlo battery has the windshield washer container completely covering the battery with excess brackets underneath.I enjoyed taking it to a Wal-Mart store where the install the battery free.Yes you are so right.Computers are easy so to work on.Remove a heater core on a modern automobile and a heatsink seems novice.
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>> Computers are easy. <<
I'll second that - and they are getting easier.
I would sooner work on an ATX motherboard than the old AT motherboards. With AT motherboard you had to practically strip the computer down just to replace a memory module which was invariably at the top of the motherboard hidden behind the power cables and IDE cables and sometimes behind the power supply. Not to mention the problems of inserting 74 pin DIM modules and the easily made mistake of connecting the power supply connectors the wrong way round.
Stuart
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Oy, AT boards. Let's not forget the sometimes dozen or more of semi hidden jumpers for from everything to CPU speed, IRQ settings, disable this, disable that---all hidden under SOMETHING
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At least computer parts are somewhat standardized. Because the parts are commodities the manufacturers usually won't make their own version of disk drives or power supplies or memory modules.
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what is hard about a mobo?? while sometimes the placement of certain connectors isn't in the most convenient location, it is there for a reason. do you have any idea of the work that goes into designing something as complex as a mobo?? it's not as simple as: "we don't like this here, lets move it over here"... Every component on a mobo has to connect to other components on the mobo, therefore, placement of components and connectors is for maximun efficiency and cost-effectiveness, not for novice computer builder convenience.
As they are now, mobos are very simple to work with. There are manufacturing standards that you use to match components. Plugs generally fit into only one recepticle and only one direction, so it is actually harder to screw up then it is to get it right.
I understand that people who lack any mechanical/technical inclination would find building a computer intimidating, but what you're complaining about is just plain silly.
Building a computer is a rewarding and satisfying experience, and with that comes any inconvenience that you may face in doing so. Otherwise go buy a Dell or Compaq.
:-)
It says not to put a question here... why not?
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Once I got into it, I couldn't believe how simple the hardware end of it really is...& it's gotten MUCH easier over the years. On many of the old Socket 7/Super 7 boards, there were dozens of jumpers or DIP switches that had to be configured...now it's almost totally done in the BIOS. And attaching hardware certainly isn't rocket science...PCI cards fit in PCI slots, AGP cards in AGP slots, DDR-SDRAM fits in DDR-SDRAM slots, etc. And most manuals have detailed diagrams for hooking up case wiring...it's just a matter of connecting A to A, & B to B.
The real knowledge is in knowing what components work best together...& how to configure the BIOS settings to get the most out of the hardware...& tweaking the OS for best performance.
Probably the biggest thing is learning how to troubleshoot when there's a problem. There are WAY too many people who just guess & begin randomly replacing parts...or who are way too quick to "pull the trigger" on reformatting.
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"I understand that people who lack any mechanical/technical inclination would find building a computer intimidating, but what you're complaining about is just plain silly."
I happen to be a certified MECP tech in electronics, and the plain and simple fact that they rather not make things easier since it may cost them a few bucks more. There is no reason for it to be sloppy and unorganized. Just imagine if all you had to do was snap everything into place in few seconds and just configure the BIOS, instead of having to unscrew everything, move all of the wires out of the way, trying to compare the diagram in the manual to the mobo when connection the power led, reset led, power switch, and other connectors on those tiny pins that sometimes you accidently yank out.
If you are willing to accept their way of making it as sloppy and long as possible to put together then that makes them continue to make this as long and sloppy as possible. I guess I am just a neat freak who likes things to be done as smoothly as possible when it can be helped.
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Just in case some people do not understand my point, here is my idea of a better design.
1. A universal conductive fitting for the motherboard to snap into the case without the need for screws or those plastic holders that are sometimes tough to release. Sometimes you cannot get all of the screws in the mobo due to the angle and dropping the screws in the case in the process.
2. Universal connectors for everything that go underneath/behind the motherboard. Why have all of the wiring cover up the ram, video card, additional cards, etc. They can have all of those connectors on the back of the motherboard so the wires do not cover up everything. I assume this would approve ventilation as well.
3.This may be more expensive but a nice feature, is a default memtest or something that explains in english what the problem with the system is.
4. Some type of certification of compatibilty standard in stores that tell you if the product has been tested with other brands and works with them without having to Google it or ask on a forum.
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Ok well sorry then. There are two types of people in this world, those who want things to be better and those who accept anything - the industry's dream customer.
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This is silly. Modern ATX based computers are relatively speaking, one of the easiest pieces of hardware to service, assemble, configure, bar none, of ANYTHING in the modern world today.
Having worked on a few proprietary Comcraps, DontDells, and Grateways, some of these manufacturers go completely out of their way to make things difficult, compared to a "generic" installation.
You simply don't have a leg to stand on, here, with this arguement.
By the way, I'm the last person in the civilized WORLD that you should be trying to accuse of being "the industry's dream customer"
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Can you be a Certified Professional Whiner (wow, what next - a degree in chronic complaining)?
Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is not more a science than a heap of stones is a home
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>>mobos are easy<<
i third that infact ill take it a step further mobos are TOO easy!
why do i say this well everything now is plug and play. computers are now just big lego sets where the user plugs in the right peice in the right socket. they have no idea what they have just done or why the cable has a funny twist in it or what the hell type of memory they have. all they know is theve bought it therefore it will fit.
then theres the bios. now you dont even need to set anything. it pritty much does it all for you.
and if something fails or goes boobies up there staright on here faster then a greased rat out a drain pipe saying stuff like. i just installed an new hard drive and it wont work. just because they forgot to say it was a slave. or in the worst case plug and play gets its knickers in a twist and arses about and they dont know how to set it up without it.
mobos have got easier in design. there less cramped and on one board. so no cutting yourself on the razor sharp edges and bleeding like a pig inside the machine.
however we are starting to get to the computers for dummies era. windows 95 destroyed most of computing due to the lack of knowledge needed to use it and now mobos are going the same way. i pitty the person who is kept dumb thanks by this. but then again it will keep me in a job. so viva le revolution! make mobos easier/operating systems easier and keep me in a job
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http://www.referenceguide.com/reviews/gatewayprofile4.htm>Gateway made a laptop you can't close and called it a desktop.Things are hard enough without changes from a industry standard to what the heck ever.My but,this post was fun though.LOL
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You think today's motherboards are bad? The fact is there is standardization within the industry. Back in the days of DOS you had a gazillion chips and cards on the board and only 1MB of memory and 5-MHz processors.
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It doesn't matter how easy it is or how standardized they make it...there will always be clueless a-holes who can't (or won't) read the manual & will continually ask questions in forums such as these.
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To be fair a single connector block for the case speaker, reset button, power button & Hard drive led would be a big boon as it is often the casde that the speaker conector can be connected the wrong way round hence no post beeps and only one block to plug in would save time too :)
Woof
Always proof-read carefully to see if you any words out.
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If you routed the wires to the back of the mobo, then you'd need to change the case (make it wider, change the orientation of the hard drives, etc). Also, many of the cards need to be connected via wires to something, such as to the PSU (ie: video card) or optical drives to a sound card. You might as well put the ram and cpu on the back side of the mobo (although the heatsink/fan will probably be too tall). That'd probably improve ventilation anyway since you could create a small isolated conduit to direct cold air from the front case fans or something. In the world where everyone wants things to be smaller, you need some inconvenience to be able to fit everything together. I have no problems with my computers...I can change the RAM without taking anything else out.
mobos do have a simple memory test, although most of us bypass it to have a faster boot time. Why add that feature when the user can just boot off a floppy or cd-rom to run a memtest? Otherwise you'd have to install enough expensive nonvolatile memory somewhere on the mobo (which would make things even more cramped).
Don't be lazy with your research. You'll still want to see what problems other people have encountered. Maybe the product passes certification in a lab, but in the real world, people have been having disastrous problems. For the most part, many things are compatible if you know what port (agp, pci, etc) that you have. Many products are backwards compatible as well. If you want a certification/compatibility standard, you'll need a set for each mobo component (ram, cards, cpu, cases, etc. Companies will need to buy all the products from their competitors and run through various permutations to make sure they all work. They'll probably have to pay licensing fees (like windows XP's hardware compatibility thing).
Current manufacturers need to obey the ATX form factor standard.
For someone who's "certified", you complain too much. Go start your own company and design things how you want. Then we can have the AT-GG form factor. =P
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