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what is CL3 ? help on memory cards.

April 24, 2006 at 10:07:01
Specs: Win XP, Intel Pentium 4 2667Mhz,2

I have Intel Pentium 4 2667Mhz,256 DDR 333Mhz, Nvidia MMX 64mb.

I'd like to purchase 1gb memory,since 256 is not enough this days...
I've been checking some memories,and I've found 2 of them,and didn't know the differneces ,so if someone could help me out here it'd be more than appreciated..

the 2 are :
A. DDR2 1024MB 533MHz CL4 Kreton
B. DDR2 1024MB 667MHZ CL3 Kreton

so what the different between CL3 and CL4,is it for Intel pentium too ? how about the speed - 533Mhz\667Mhz ,is it that important ? my brother said to me that the motherboard may not accept this kind of speed for some reason ?

If anyone could shed some light on this issue,it'd be much appreciated :)
thank you



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#1
April 24, 2006 at 10:17:03

Those memories will NOT work on your computer. Most likely you motherboard only supports DDR 1, not DDR II.

CL stands for Cas Latency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_Latency

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#2
April 24, 2006 at 10:43:53

The link provided by D_K explains it.

To make it easy, just think of CL as meaning "Clock Lag". The higher the number, the longer the lag, therefore the slower the response. DDR1 RAM usually comes as CL 3.0, CL 2.5, CL 2.0 (listed as slowest to fastest). Usually, CL 2.5 is the best buy.

If your board supports it, you should be running in dual channel mode:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227039

Or if you can figure a way to work around the rebate restriction (limit one per household) so that you can buy two, you may wanna go for this deal at Outpost.com:

http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4159153


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#3
April 24, 2006 at 11:13:47

thanks for your fast replies.

Jam,
well how could I know if my board supports dual channel or not ?
according to the analyze I made awhile ago it says the following :

Board: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. GA-8ST800 1.x
Bus Clock: 133 megahertz
BIOS: Award Software International, Inc. 6.00 PG 02/14/2003


Death_Knight,
so what you're saying is that its not depens on the speed of the memory card (such as in this case 533\667) ,but the DDR type ?
what the differenced between DDR and DDR2 that it won't supports it ?


thanks again for your time.


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Related Solutions

#4
April 24, 2006 at 11:42:49

"how could I know if my board supports dual channel or not ?"

Read your manual or go to the motherboard manufacturer's website. I just checked & your board does NOT support dual channel mode:

http://tinyurl.com/la3fy

"what the differenced between DDR and DDR2 that it won't supports it ?"

Among other things, DDR1 has 184-pins, DDR2 has 240-pins


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#5
April 24, 2006 at 11:50:28

That's correct, DDR and DDR2 uses different pin, DDR supports 184-pin and DDR2 supports 240-pin memory. There are certain motherboards that support both DDR and DDR2 (can not mix with both types). The difference is speed and CAS; basically DDR2 picks up where DDR left off in term of frequency and DDR2 has a higher CAS Latency (Lower the better, not much performance gain with Intel CPU)

You can download Sandra and determines the type/model of motherboard you got.
http://www.sisoftware.net/index.html?dir=news&location=2005sr2_release&langx=en&a=

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#6
April 24, 2006 at 11:51:27

Jam,now I'm confused :\
according to the URL you provided.. so it says : "2. Enhance system performance with latest DDR 333 memory support "
so does that mean that a DDR 400 or 533 won't fit to my board ?!

And another question,you wrote before :"To make it easy, just think of CL as meaning "Clock Lag". The higher the number, the longer the lag, therefore the slower the response. DDR1 RAM usually comes as CL 3.0, CL 2.5, CL 2.0 (listed as slowest to fastest). Usually, CL 2.5 is the best buy."

so if the lowest is the better so why CL 2.5 the "best buy" and not CL 2 ?



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#7
April 24, 2006 at 11:55:31

Yes DDR400Mhz and DDR533Mhz will not run at the same it stated. It will run at 333Mhz or your system will not boot because of the memory. CL doesn't mean Clock Lag, jam just gives you an example. CL 2.5 is better because its more stable, if you set CL 2.0 your computer may not function properly or will crash from time to time.

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
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#8
April 24, 2006 at 12:02:42

ok great,now its more clear to me,but I hope you don't mind me asking just 1 more question...

Can I have on my board two memories, one would be 1gb DDR 333Mhz and the other would be 256mb 333Mhz,so in total it would be 1.256gb ? or would it be a problem ?


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#9
April 24, 2006 at 12:07:56

All depends on your motherboard. If you have the motherboard documentation, look at the memory selection and see what's the max module can be (if 1gig then it’s ok). If you don’t have the motherboard documentation then just Sandra to find out the motherboard model and look for the manufacture’s website to find out what’s the maximum size it supports.

IMO 2 x 512MB will do the job.

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
WD Raptor 36.7GB
WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
Coolermaster 430Watt

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#10
April 24, 2006 at 12:21:51

I'm not sure if you understood my question properly or maybe I didnt understood yours...
I didn't mean about the maximum size that every slot could support (but now that we mentioned it,is that could be a problem too ?), but I meant if that's a problem to have one memory of 512Mb or 1Gb while the other memory (on the next slot) would be as an other size as 256Mb ?

here are the results...


SiSoftware Sandra

Mainboard
Manufacturer : Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
MP Support : 2 Processor(s)
MPS Version : 1.40
Model : GA-8ST800
Version : 1.x
System BIOS : 02/14/2003-SiS-646-6A6IXG0XC-00
Chipset : SiS 64X/65X

System Memory Controller
Location : Mainboard
Error Correction Capability : None
Number of Memory Slots : 3
Maximum Installable Memory : 3GB
Bank0/1 - A0 : None None None None DIMM 256MB/64
Bank2/3 - A1 : Empty
Bank4/5 - A2 : Empty

Chipset 1
Model : Silicon Integrated Systems (SiS) SiS645DX CPU to PCI Bridge
Bus(es) : AGP PCI USB i2c/SMBus
Front Side Bus Speed : 4x 134MHz (536MHz data rate)
Maximum FSB Speed / Max Memory Speed : 4x 133MHz / 2x 166MHz
Width : 64-bit
SMP - MP Capability : No
IO Queue Depth : 8 request(s)
Priority Master Queue Depth : 7 request(s)

Chipset 1 Hub Interface
Type : MUTOL
Width : 16-bit
Full Duplex : No
Multiplier : 2/1x

Logical/Chipset 1 Memory Banks
Bank 0 : 256MB DDR-SDRAM 2.5-3-3-7 1CMD
Channels : 1
Width : 64-bit
Refresh Rate : 7.80µs
Power Save Mode : No
Fixed Hole Present : No

Environment Monitor 1
Model : ITE IT8705F LPC
Version : 2.00
Mainboard Specific Support : No

Temperature Sensor(s)
Board Temperature : 44.0°C / 111.2°F
CPU1 Temperature : 25.0°C / 77.0°F
CPU2 Temperature : 37.0°C / 98.6°F td

Cooling Device(s)
Auto Fan Speed Control : No
Chassis Fan Speed : 3590rpm

Voltage Sensor(s)
CPU1 Voltage : 1.52V
CPU2 Voltage : 1.92V
+3.3V Voltage : 3.31V
+5V Voltage : 5.16V
+12V Voltage : 11.92V
-12V Voltage : -11.95V
-5V Voltage : -5.31V
Standby Voltage : 5.00V

AGP Bus(es) on Hub 1
Version : 2.00
Speed : 4x
Fast-Writes Enabled : Yes
Side Band Enabled : No
Side Band Support : Yes
Aperture Size : 64MB

PCI Bus(es) on Hub 1
Version : 2.10
Number of Bridges : 1
PCI Bus 0 : PCI (1/1x PCIClk)

LPC Hub Controller 1
Model : Silicon Integrated Systems (SiS) SiS PCI to ISA Bridge (LPC Bridge)
ACPI Power Management Enabled : Yes
Multiplier : 1/4x

USB Controller 1
Model : Silicon Integrated Systems (SiS) SiS5597/8 Universal Serial Bus Controller
Version : 1.00
Interface : OHCI
Channels : 2
Supported Speed(s) : Low (1.5Mbps) Full (12Mbps)
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

USB Controller 2
Model : Silicon Integrated Systems (SiS) SiS5597/8 Universal Serial Bus Controller
Version : 1.00
Interface : OHCI
Channels : 2
Supported Speed(s) : Low (1.5Mbps) Full (12Mbps)
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

USB Controller 3
Model : Silicon Integrated Systems (SiS) SiS5597/8 Universal Serial Bus Controller
Version : 1.00
Interface : OHCI
Channels : 2
Supported Speed(s) : Low (1.5Mbps) Full (12Mbps)
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

USB Controller 4
Model : Giga-Byte Technology SiS7002 USB 2.0 Enhanced Controller
Version : 2.00
Specification : 1.00
Interface : EHCI
Channels : 6
Companion Controllers : 3
Supported Speed(s) : Low (1.5Mbps) Full (12Mbps) High (480Mbps)
Addressing Support : 32-bit
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

System SMBus Controller 1
Model : SiS 5595 Internal SMBus
Advanced TCO Mode Enabled : No
Slave Device Enabled : No
PEC Support : No

Expansion Slot(s)
PCI (9h) : PCI 32-bit +5V +3.3V PME Full-Length Available
PCI (Ah) : PCI 32-bit +5V +3.3V PME Full-Length Available
PCI (Bh) : PCI 32-bit +5V +3.3V PME Full-Length Available
PCI (Ch) : PCI 32-bit +5V +3.3V PME Full-Length Available
PCI (Dh) : PCI 32-bit +5V +3.3V PME Full-Length Available
AGP (8h) : AGP 32-bit +5V Full-Length Used (Nvidia Corp GeForce4 MX 440 [NV17.2])

Port Connector
PRIMARY IDE : None - ATA / None
SECONDARY IDE : None - ATA / None
FDD : 8251 FIFO - Floppy Disk / None
COM1 : Serial Port 16450 - 9 Pin Dual Inline / DB-9 pin male
COM2 : Serial Port 16450 - 9 Pin Dual Inline / DB-9 pin male
LPT1 : Parallel Port ECP/EPP - DB-25 pin female / DB-25 pin female
Keyboard : Keyboard - None / PS/2
PS/2 Mouse - No Detected : Mouse - PS/2 / PS/2
USB : USB - None / None

Performance Tips
Warning 2533 : Disabled host controllers are present. Check BIOS settings.
Tip 2532 : Consider adding more CPUs for better utilisation.
Notice 224 : SMBIOS/DMI information may be inaccurate.
Tip 2511 : Some memory slots are free so the memory can be easily upgraded.
Warning 100 : Large memory sizes should be made of Registered/Buffered memory.
Warning 2540 : No APIC detected for MP system.
Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.


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#11
April 24, 2006 at 12:30:23

Ok looks good, your motherboard can support up to 1gig Module memory. And Yes to your question, you can mix memory size since this motherboard does not support duel channel mode.

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
WD Raptor 36.7GB
WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
Coolermaster 430Watt

I don't have a case, yet I enjoy not having one


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#12
April 24, 2006 at 12:36:07

yeay great :)
but wait... (sorry for the mass),
if one memory is CL 2.5 and the other is CL 3, or if one memory is 333Mhz and the other is 266Mhz (am not sure if it supports on my board, but lets say it is for the question)
it still won't be an issue ? and the mix won't make any harm ?

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#13
April 24, 2006 at 12:42:25

You won't have any issue beside they will both run at CL 2.5 and 266Mhz to match the speed for one and the other. So you will lose the speed on the 333Mhz and runs at 266Mhz. Pretty bad isn't it?

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
WD Raptor 36.7GB
WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
Coolermaster 430Watt

I don't have a case, yet I enjoy not having one


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#14
April 24, 2006 at 12:47:57

haha,
well if you say that they both run at CL 2.5 and 266Mhz,well in one hand its a shame for the 266Mhz thing,but it's better to run at CL 2.5 according to what you and Jam said before, no ?

p.s. how can I find what CL is my current memory.. ? sandra didn't mentioned anything about this,actually sandra didn't mention something essential of the card...


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#15
April 24, 2006 at 13:02:39

CPUZ should be able to supply your RAM info:

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Just to clarify...the reason CL 2.5 RAM is the best buy is because it's usually no more expensive than CL 3.0, but it performs better. On the other hand, CL 2.0 RAM is usually much more expensive & the minor increase in performance really isn't justifiable, unless you're building a killer rig running all the best of the best components.



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#16
April 24, 2006 at 13:11:29

My suggestion is just buy 2 x 512MB DDR333Mhz and put your 256MB away. You will not notice the difference between CL2 and CL3. On the other hand AMD's performance can gain a lot from CL3 to CL2 because they have an build-in memory controller on their CPU. But this is not the case for you.

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
WD Raptor 36.7GB
WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
Coolermaster 430Watt

I don't have a case, yet I enjoy not having one


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#17
April 24, 2006 at 13:12:49

great, it says :
cas latency 2.5 clocks
ras to cas 3.0 clocks

ok,
so now the last two question,then I won't bother you guys (hopefully) anymore,its late too in here...

1. what do you recommend ? to buy 2X512MB or only one of 1Gb ?

2. how do you guys know all this stuff,where did you learn this :) ?


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#18
April 24, 2006 at 13:19:04

It really doesn't matter at this point, maybe go for the cheaper one. Your motherboard does not support duel channel so either one won't benefit you. And CPU-z should also tells you bout FSB:DRAM, CAS, CAS to RAS, RAS precharge and cycle time, I am assuming its 2.5-3-3-8? for FSB:DRAM the best ratio should be 1:1. By the way, are you an Overclocker?

I learned all these stuff from testing and input froms other users. : ) (I burnt my own Pentium MMX, HAHAHAH)

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
WD Raptor 36.7GB
WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
Coolermaster 430Watt

I don't have a case, yet I enjoy not having one


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#19
April 24, 2006 at 13:21:48

This is pretty funny....why didn't you just go to crucial.com and use their system analyzer to recommend the best ram for you?
17 responses is pretty extensive...LOL

Hopefully my advice will help you...Please post back with your results....thanks


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#20
April 24, 2006 at 13:25:45

"Your motherboard does not support duel channel so either one won't benefit you."

hmm.. what does duel channel means really ?


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#21
April 24, 2006 at 13:34:32

When a computer is running at Duel Channel Mode, it doubles the bandwidth of the memory. For a system to run Duel Channel, the motherboard has to support it and you should use two identical memories (same brand, memory size, CAS, etc...)

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
WD Raptor 36.7GB
WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
Coolermaster 430Watt

I don't have a case, yet I enjoy not having one


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#22
April 24, 2006 at 13:56:24

Great ! :)
so now I can sleep tight after this wonderful interesting discussion.

XpUser4Real,
you're absolutely right,I said a few times that my next question would be the last one,but since both Death_Knight and Jam,are such smart,experienced and nice guys,and on every answer of them they specified me another detail and another one which I'm not common with,the I had to ask another question,it really interests me,and im a curious guy :P

Death_Knight and Jam,
nice job,thank you soooo much,you've been really a MAJOR help for me,I really appreciate this,at the time come,god will remember your help here,you're doing a great Mitzvah :D

final words :
Thank you thank you and again thank you,for your time,help and patience for me :)


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#23
April 24, 2006 at 14:13:28

hummiz
You're welcome, it's very pleasant to share knowledges with others, and that's how others will absorb. Remember all pros was once a rookie : )

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
WD Raptor 36.7GB
WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
Coolermaster 430Watt

I don't have a case, yet I enjoy not having one



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#24
April 24, 2006 at 14:39:40

haha,have to agree on that :)

thanks again,nighty night :D


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#25
April 24, 2006 at 15:26:34

"For a system to run Duel Channel, the motherboard has to support it and you should use two identical memories (same brand, memory size, CAS, etc...)"

No you DO NOT, my friend.....;-)

When Google isn't your best pal


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#26
April 25, 2006 at 06:19:47

How so Sabertooth? All motherboard manufacture suggest user to use two identical memory for duel channel.

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Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
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WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
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#27
April 25, 2006 at 07:20:07

I have said this way too many times, you DO NOT need to have 100% identical memory sticks to run in dual channel mode, that is a feature of the motherboard and NOT the memory modules themselves (RAM). While it may be the ideal to do that, it is not a fundamental criteria. Heck, the sticks do not even have to be of the same size or manufacturer,but you definitely want sticks of the same speed.


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#28
April 25, 2006 at 08:30:12

"When a computer is running at Duel Channel Mode, it doubles the bandwidth of the memory. For a system to run Duel Channel, the motherboard has to support it and you should use two identical memories (same brand, memory size, CAS, etc...)"

That was why I said should its a suggestion Sabertooh, I did not say must. There's a difference between should and must

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
WD Raptor 36.7GB
WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
Coolermaster 430Watt

I don't have a case, yet I enjoy not having one


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#29
April 25, 2006 at 09:58:28

"if one memory is CL 2.5 and the other is CL 3, or if one memory is 333Mhz and the other is 266Mhz (am not sure if it supports on my board, but lets say it is for the question)"


"You won't have any issue beside they will both run at CL 2.5 and 266Mhz to match the speed for one and the other. So you will lose the speed on the 333Mhz and runs at 266Mhz."


The memory would run at CL3 and 266Mhz.


Both chips would have to step down to the lower speeds of the other.

The CL3 mem can not step up to CL2.5.


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#30
April 25, 2006 at 10:13:33

Ya that's what I really meant, I made a typo on that because I was thinking about frequency while typing CL lol, thanks for pointing that out. Since we know that CL3 is slower than CL2.5

Pentium 4 3.6Ghz Prescott
Asus P5WD2 Premium
Corsair XMS 2Gig DDR2 667Mhz
X700Pro 256MB GDDR3
WD Raptor 36.7GB
WD 250GB 16MB SATA II
Coolermaster 430Watt

I don't have a case, yet I enjoy not having one


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#31
April 25, 2006 at 12:37:08

"The CL3 mem can not step up to CL2.5"

It *might* be able to if you configure the settings manually. For instance, I'm currently running Kingston ValueRam with default timings of 3-4-4-8 at 2.5-3-3-7. But if you have your RAM settings on AUTO, it will always configure to the lowest/slowest settings of the lowest/slowest stick of RAM being used.

Here's some info on dual channel:

http://www.kingston.com/newtech/MKF_520DDRwhitepaper.pdf


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#32
April 25, 2006 at 15:36:25

and the saga continues...LOL

Hopefully my advice will help you...Please post back with your results....thanks


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#33
April 25, 2006 at 17:01:50

I guess I have to be pedantic on this one.

"For a system to run Duel Channel, the motherboard has to support it and you should use two identical memories (same brand, memory size, CAS, etc...)"

When you are speaking English the words you stress can change the underlying meaning a sentence, for example:

"For me to accept your job offer, I should be paid twice that salary"

As you can tell from above, I am asking for a higher pay in order for me to consider the position being offered as opposed to simply suggesting because the word should and its context is used to talk about obligation and duty as an alternative to 'ought to'.

In other words you might as well have said to the OP:

"For a system to run Duel Channel, the motherboard has to support it and you ought to use two identical memories (same brand, memory size, CAS, etc...)".

Hopefully we can agree to disagree.


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