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Unstable Athlon XP 2600+

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Name: mmanders
Date: July 10, 2006 at 04:01:31 Pacific
OS: Windows XP Professional S
CPU/Ram: AMD Athlon XP 2600+ / 1Gb
Product: PC Chips M848ALU
Comment:

I have just replaced my processor. Used to be an AMD Athlon XP 1500. Set BIOS and Memory to be auto detect. Running CPU at 166Mhz x 12.5 and RAM at 166Mhz using PC2700 1x 512 and 2x256. RAM passes Memtest, CPU not overheating. System unstable. Reboots after long time in Windows, or very shortly when running intensive game like Doom3. Any troubleshooting ideas aside from BIOS Flash?



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Response Number 1
Name: don2006
Date: July 10, 2006 at 05:34:49 Pacific
Reply:

The first thing to do is go into system properties, startup and recovery and uncheck automatic reboot. Then look in the event viewer. Eveyone forgets to do that. There are 3 logs there, which you probably already know, but never think about it.


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Response Number 2
Name: mmanders
Date: July 10, 2006 at 05:38:37 Pacific
Reply:

I'm pretty sure I have it set up to show BSODs. I received one initially reporting an error regarding RAM. I checked RAM with memtest98, one stick was faulty, and was PC2100. I replaced this with a 512Mb PC2700 identicaly to the other two 256Mb modules. Since then, no BSOD, just reboots!


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Response Number 3
Name: 1stepbeyond
Date: July 10, 2006 at 05:57:34 Pacific
Reply:

Hi
what graphics card are you running doom3 on ?

& try f8 at boot then from menu use 'last known good configuration'.

the reboots are sometimes a driver thats corrupted can you f8 into safe mode?

the last resort
repair xp :

http://michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm#RI


regards


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Response Number 4
Name: mmanders
Date: July 10, 2006 at 06:22:27 Pacific
Reply:

I can boot into safe mode and last known config. I'm pretty sure it's not a software issue as I have recently changed my CPU, and all my drivers are up-to-date (recent rebuild of OS). Running Doom 3 on a nVidia GeForce2 MX 400. I can confirm the AGP card is not at fault because I have successfully completed Doom 3 previously with a fair frame rate.


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Response Number 5
Name: jam
Date: July 10, 2006 at 08:08:50 Pacific
Reply:

Your video card is outdated & should be upgraded & PCChips is not known for making quality motherboards. SiS chipsets are as bad as it gets. And why the comment about the BIOS flash? Do you have the latest available or aren't you confident enough to perform a flash?

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?MenuID=24&LanID=0&DetailID=251&DetailName=Specification

What power supply are you using? What is the brand name, what's the wattage, & how many amps are on the +12v rail? You can find all the info on the label on the side of the PSU. If it's a no-name unit, look for a number under the UL logo. The number will start with the letter E & have 6 numbers after it (ex, E123456). And the UL label actually looks more like a backards R with a U, like this:

http://www.bb-battery.com/UL-1logo.gif

If you can locate the number, plug it in here to find out the true manufacturer of the PSU:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/gfilenbr.html


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Response Number 6
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: July 10, 2006 at 08:15:23 Pacific
Reply:

Flashing the bios will do nothing to improve your situation. You should never flash your bios unless you find specific information, usually in release notes on the page where you download bios updates, that flashing your bios will cure a problem you are having.

Are you sure your cpu fan and heatsink are capable of cooling your XP2600 properly? If you are using the same ones as for your XP1500, they will be inadequate when you use the cpu more intensively, and unless you monitor the cpu temp continously you may not have noticed the temperature rise, especially if the cpu is not overheating when it is not being used intensely.

Other than that, are you sure your PS is okay and has enough capacity to handle the added current the XP2600 is drawing? El-cheapo PS's often have bogus maximum capacity ratings that they can't actually achieve. Even if it seemingly has enough capacity, defective PS's are common and can cause reboots, especially when the PS has fully warmed up or is more heavily loaded by the system.
e.g. if your PS is a good brand, and you have a Socket A mboard, and the capacity of the PS is 250 watts, it is probably just barely adequate.
If your PS is an el-cheapo, 250 watts is probably not enough, and even 300 watts may not be enough, because the capacity is a lie.


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Response Number 7
Name: ham30
Date: July 10, 2006 at 10:08:23 Pacific
Reply:

I also suspect an inadequate heatsink/fan or a poor job of applying the thermal compound. Maybe too much applied? Too little is usually better than too much.

Do yourself a favor BACKUP!


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Response Number 8
Name: jam
Date: July 10, 2006 at 11:20:01 Pacific
Reply:

yeah, overheating CPU seems more likely...PSU would be the 2nd thing to look into


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Response Number 9
Name: mmanders
Date: July 11, 2006 at 05:47:17 Pacific
Reply:

Thank you all for your input. I may have narrowed the problem down - although the conclusion I have reached is confusing. The Windows stop errors I am receiving are 0x0000008E which pertains to a RAM issue. Memtest86 ran all night without any issues or reboots. Could this still be an issue with the PSU / overheating? I.e. could the temperature and wattage being inadequate cause apparent memory errors, and only manifest when the PC is under stress, specifically not when running memtest for a full 8 hours?

Cheers


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Response Number 10
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: July 11, 2006 at 08:23:47 Pacific
Reply:

"Could this still be an issue with the PSU / overheating?"

Definately.


"could the temperature..." (being too high) "....and wattage being inadequate cause apparent memory errors, and only manifest when the PC is under stress, specifically not when running memtest for a full 8 hours?"

Running memtest places very little stress on your system. It is quite possible that while you run it a marginal PS would not be under enough stress for problems to show up.
There is no point in running memtest any longer than it takes to make a few successful passes - if it gets that far there is nothing wrong with your ram.

An error in Windows that points to a problem with your ram is not necessarily correct, especially if your windows installation may already be damaged from the unexpected reboots - the memtest test is much more reliable.

If your cpu malfunctions when it gets too hot, or if it is already damaged from getting too hot in the past and malfunctions when it is under more stress, that can cause data errors and data corruption, especially if the computer crashes or reboots while data is being accessed on the hard drive(s), but the errors are on the hard drive, not in the ram.

If your PS in inadequate or defective, if it works at all it is a lot more likely to give you problems when it is under more load, and/or when the system is under more stress. In those circumstances, the voltages it produces can get out of whack - they may even get out of whack and stay that way - voltages that are too high can do a lot of damage in a short time and can make the cpu malfunction or even damage the cpu, sometimes even if it is not overheating.

What would I do in your case? We get posts about problems similar to yours and other problems here every day that eventually turn out to be caused by a failiny or inadequate power supply. I would try another PS that has enough capacity - you haven't said whether your mboard is Socket A or a later one, but 300 watts should be plenty, if the PS is a good brand.
Make sure all the wire colors and numbers of wires on the main connector from the PS are the same - if they are not one PS is not compatible with the other!
If you can't do that....
take it to a computer repair place and have them try another PS, or.......

Sniff the PS fan outlet area with the power off - a strong burnt wiring / burnt plasticy smell indicates the PS has been overheating or has been malfunctioning, regardless of whether the PS fan is spinning properly.
Try turning the PS fan from the back of the case with a pencil or something slim - it should move in jumps, but be easy to turn - if it is harder to turn, the fan is spinning slower than it should or has stopped spinning, the PS has probably overheated and damaged itself, and the PS is probably in the process of dying.

You may need to do this right after the computer has unexpectedly rebooted or shut down:
Look in your bios Setup at the current voltages (if you have the monitoring chipset for that) - +3.3, +5, and +12 volts should be within 10% of nominal values - your Vcc (cpu core voltage(s)) should be within 5% of nominal value(s). Voltages that are too high can do a lot of damage in a short time.
If you don't have that in your bios Setup, measure the 12 and 5 volts at the power connectors to a drive - red is +5 volts d.c., yellow is +12 volts d.c., black is negative, probably doesn't matter which one.
The PS fan should be spinning at the speed it is supposed to be - some spin according to how warm the PS is, slower when cooler, but it may not have that feature and in that case would spin quite fast. If it spins too slow or has stopped, the PS will overheat and fry itself, malfunction for a while, and eventually die.

Some PS problems only show up intermittantly, or only when you add an additional load to the computer - when the computer is booted, or when you are running something that stresses it more, such as when you are burning a CD or DVD, or playing a recent game.
You could try installing a mboard monitoring utility that can monitor your temps and voltages in Windows, and set it up so that it is monitoring all the time and will warn you if something goes out of whack, particularly the voltages.
.....



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Response Number 11
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: July 11, 2006 at 10:33:20 Pacific
Reply:

It also sounds like your Windows installation is damaged.
Once you have cured the rebooting problem and your system is stable, you could try doing an XP Repair Setup, which will not harm your existing Windows installation, but it can only fix things Windows detects as wrong, or replace corrupted or missing Windows files that are on your original XP CD. If running it doesn't cure enough of your problems and/or the problems are caused by things not on the original Windows CD, you will probably have to make a clean install of Windows from scratch.
You will need a Windows CD of the same version as the one of your Windows installation, and the Product Key, preferably the one that was used to install it, but it can be one for the same version as the one of your Windows installation.

how to do an XP Repair Setup, step by step:
http://www.windowsreinstall.com/winxppro/installxpcdrepair/indexfullpage.htm



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