i recently got a bsod on my self-built pc.

abit f-190hd mobo
e4500 stock cpu
gskill 2x1gb F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ

initially, when i first loaded up the system, the windows loading screen would show, and for a split second a blue screen (bsod, most likely) showed up, then restarted the system.

first thing i did was reinstall windows. it had trouble doing the format, and when it did, it gave me a bsod: page_fault_in_nonpaged_area

quick search says this is most likely the ram, but could be mobo or even cpu.

i actually tried reinstalling many times, trying different settings with the bios (mainly just using the default bios settings) and even just trying just 1 stick of ram and the other stick of ram; swapping them around, etc.

eventually, i couldn't even get the xp installation cd to boot properly. like normal, you'd see the blue installation screen as soon as it boots up, but the screen just blanks.

my memtest cd was able to boot fine.

on the first run with memtest, with both ram sticks in, i got 256 errors on the end of the 2nd pass.

with just 1 stick in, no errors on 3 passes. same with the other stick. same on the other slots.

however, put both sticks back in in dual-channel. got 3 errors on the first pass.

i don't know if i should do more memtesting with the ram, or look elsewhere.

can someone please help? thanks.

Is the actual memory verified by the motherboard manufacturer to be compatable ??

use the onboard jumper to clear the cmos!

Several questions for you:

Is this new RAM or had it been working OK previously? Are you using memtest86 or memtest86+? By "pass" do you mean one complete series of 10 tests?

BIOS defaults are NEVER the way to go. The BIOS should be manually configured to give best performance. Did you check that the RAM is running at the correct voltage? What speed are you running it at? I assume the default speed of 400MHz (DDR800)?

If your E4500 CPU is running at it's default clock settings of 11 x 200MHz (2.2GHz), you should be running the RAM at 200MHz (DDR400), not 400MHz (DDR800). Lowering the RAM speed to match the CPU *may* eliminate the errors, but your RAM is most likely defective if won't run error-free at 400MHz.

Double check the RAM voltage setting & make sure to disable ALL Spread Spectrum settings.

I disagree. Bios defaults are the starting point. That point is where the factory proves it's own statements. If any board fails there you should consider either your ram is not the correct for that board or some part, firmware is defective.

I read it wrong and answer it wrong too. So get off my case you peanut.

"Is this new RAM or had it been working OK previously? "

Did you check to see whether the ram you are trying to use is definately compatible with your mboard chipset?

Trying ram in this mboard that works in another mboard , or trying any ram you buy or have lying around, may not work - it has to be compatible with the mboard and it's chipset.

See response 5 in this for some info about ram compatibilty, and some places where you can find out what will work in your mboard for sure:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...
Correction to that:
Mushkin www.mushkin.com

If any of your modules are incompatible, they are likely to FAIL a ram test - that is an INVALID result if any are incompatible.

Use the newest version of a ram test you can find.
E.g. I found an older version of Docmemory (correction - I previously said it was an older version of memtest86) will produce FALSE errors when testing DDR2 ram.

"Bios defaults are the starting point"

Exactly, but they are ONLY a starting point. There's no way any one-click setting will be good for all the 100's of possible hardware configurations. Defaults will get you going, but the BIOS settings should then be adjusted manually to best "compliment" your hardware.

The 1:1 CPU:DRAM frequency ratio has been discussed ad nauseum in the CPU, Hardware & Gaming forums.

Like I said, check the RAM voltage. If it's defaulting to 1.8v, jack it up to 2.0v.

http://www.gskill.com/en/f2-6400cl5...

A common thing that can happen with ram, even ram that worked fine previously, is the ram has, or has developed, a poor connection in it's slot(s).
This usually happens a long time after the ram was installed, but it can happen with new ram, or after moving the computer case from one place to another, and I've had even new modules that needed to have their contacts cleaned.

See response 2 in this - try cleaning the contacts on the ram modules, and making sure the modules are properly seated:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

@ WebsWonder...
I did a search for a complete list of verified RAM module (kits) supported and verified by either the manufacturer or consumers, but I didn't get anything. All I can find is that it supports 240-pin DDR2 800/667/533. My RAM kit fits these specifications (2x 240-pin DDR2 800).

@ moutain...
I cleared the motherboard CMOS with both RAM modules in. I had to update the time in the BIOS. Unfortunately, it's still not booting up my Windows XP installation disk; it boots up fine on my other PC. I don't know why it will no longer boot up properly. I'll have memtest run again to see if it finds errors in the RAM again.

@ jam...
1- This RAM has been working previously. I built the system back in October, and it's been cooperating fine since then. Just a few days ago, it just quit working, and just restarts itself everytime it passes the black Windows loading screen.
2- I'm using Memtest86+ V1.70. Yes, when I said "pass", I meant a complete cycle of all the tests; however, there are only *9* tests.
3- The RAM is rated at 1.8V - 2.0V. The BIOS is running it at 1.80V by default. I don't know what speed the RAM is running at; I don't readily see where something like that can be set in the BIOS.
4- The External Clock (FSB) is running at a default 200MHz. Again, I'm not sure where in the BIOS to change the RAM clock.
5- I'm also not where where to look for the "Spread Spectrum settings" either. I searched through all the menus and can't find that or the RAM clock.
6- I tried changing the DDR2 voltage from a default value of 1.80V to 2.00V; I don't know if this would've fixed my original issue with Windows just restarting itself, but it certainly doesn't allow my Windows XP install CD to boot up.

@ Tubesandwires...
1- Again, haven't found a definite list that explicitely lists this RAM kit or any other RAM modules to work or not; but I bought it new with the system and definitely fits the specs.
2- I found the official page for my specific RAM kit ( http://newgskill.web-bi.net/bbs/vie... ). It doesn't list compatible motherboards. However, I'll continue to scour for a list.
3- As listed, I'm using Memtest86+ V1.70. I actually overlooked the fact that this specific utility might not support DDR2 and/or dual-channel. The website doesn't explicitely say it, but if it doesn't can you recommend a better memory test?
4- I used canned air to make sure there's no dust, but I'll try to get a proper cleaning solution.

* * * * * * * * * *

I no longer even know if this is a RAM issue or something else. Initially, I was able to load up the Windows XP Install CD and get as far as the format. Now, the CD doesn't even boot up correctly. It certainly detects there's a disk in the CD-ROM that's trying to boot up, but as soon as I tell it to boot from the CD-ROM, it shows the "checking hardware" (or something) message real quick then the screen blacks. Then I hear the disk spin down to what sounds like an idle speed.

If it helps, I'll try to explain the related BIOS settings. Firstly, there are 2 types of defaults: "Load Fail-Safe Defaults" and "Load Optimized Defaults". Regardless of which I choose, the CPU/RAM settings are exactly the same.

The first menu is the "SoftMenu Setup". At the top, grayed out, it shows me the brand name of my CPU, then below that (grayed out) it says the Frequency is 550MHz. Below that, it shows the CPU Operating Speed is running at "2200(200)". Below this, it shows the grayed out defaults. If I hit enter on the "2200(200)", I can then change it to "User Defined" and change the grayed out defaults. By default, the External Clock (FSB Frequency) is 200MHz; if I hit enter on it, it says the Min=133 and Max=500; it allows me to "Key in a DEC number". The Multiplier Factor is defaulted to 11X; if I hit enter on it, it says the Min=6 and Max=11; I can key in a DEC number as well. There is one grayed out default figure: Estimated New CPU Clock, which is 2.20GHz. Then there's "DRAM Spec. (CPU:DRAM); this is defaulted to "By SPD", but I can change it to "DDR2 533", "DDR2 667", and "DDR2 800".

There's another subsection under this where it says "Voltages Control"; this is set to Default. I can set it to manual where I can change the default values of "CPU Core Voltage"( 1.3250V), "DDR2 Voltage"(1.80V), and "NB 1.8 Voltage"(1.800V). The CPU Core Voltage can be incremented by .025 from 1.3250V all the way up to 1.7000V. The "DDR2 Voltage" increments by .05 up to 2.50V; I've tried the RAM maximum of 2.00V; this didn't help. The NB 1.8 Voltage allows me to change it to 1.836V, 1.872V, 1.944V, 2.016V, and 2.088V.

I've been able to use these defaults fine for a few months.

Going into the "Advanced Chipset Features", I get "DRAM Timing Selectable" which is set to "By SPD"; I can change this to manual and change the default settings. There's the "CAS Latency Time(tCL)"(default=5, selectable 2-7). There's "RAS# to CAS# Delay(tRCD)"(5, 0-15). There's "RAS# Precharge(tRP)"(5, 0-15). There's "Precharge Dealy(tRAS)"(15, 0-255). And there's "Refresh Cycle Time(tRFC)"(21, 0-255).

I've been able to use these defaults fine for a few months.

There's another section that might be related to why I can't see the XP Installation screen. My motherboard has both a built-in HDMI and VGA port; both use the same chipset, I believe. I've only used the VGA port. "Init Display First" is defaulted to "PCI Slot", but I can choose "Onboard" and PCIe. I've set this to Onboard, but it still doesn't show the XP install screen. There's "HDMI Port Display", where I can choose "DVI" or "Normal". DVI is the default, but I doubt this matters and I don't use the HDMI port at all. There's the "UMA Frame Buffer Size", which I believe is the graphics memory. This goes from 32MB to 512MB. And there's finally GFX Link Width, which is set to x16.

I hope I've provided enough information about my BIOS and hardware that someone can help me figure out why I can no longer even see the XP install screen. I've tried a couple different install disks and none of them work. However, my memtest disk works fine.

Memtest86+ V1.70 is probably fine, assuming it's recent.

If you're CERTAIN the ram you have installed now was working fine before
- may sure you have whatever ram is dual channel installed in the right slots - see your mboard manualn -i must be in specific slots, often ones of the same color.
- See response 2 in this - try cleaning the contacts on the ram modules, and making sure the modules are properly seated:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

If you are NOT CERTAIN the ram worked fine previously, OR if you had NEVER BEFORE TESTED the ram in dual channel mode previously (in which case you may not have been aware dual channel mode wasn't working properly),
"All I can find is that it supports 240-pin DDR2 800/667/533. My RAM kit fits these specifications (2x 240-pin DDR2 800).

AGAIN, that's not enough information to determine whether it is compatible.
See response 5 in this for some info about ram compatibilty, and some places where you can find out what will work in your mboard for sure:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...
Correction to that:
Mushkin www.mushkin.com

You can certainly find info about which modules will work in your mboard model for sure from at least some web sites. If you can't find that info for the OCZ modules you are using, then whether it will work properly is a crap shoot - random.

"Going into the "Advanced Chipset Features", I get "DRAM Timing Selectable" which is set to "By SPD"; "

You can't go wrong with it set to that. The SPD chip is a tiny chip on the upper corner of each ram module on one end that contains data that specifies the specs at which the module was designed to run at.
When the bios is set to By SPD those values are used - voltage, timing, mhz it runs at.
However, if you have more than one ram module installed and if their specs of them are not the same, the bios will automatically default to using the slowest specs for all the ram installed.

"My motherboard has both a built-in HDMI and VGA port; both use the same chipset, I believe. I've only used the VGA port. "Init Display First" is defaulted to "PCI Slot", but I can choose "Onboard" and PCIe. I've set this to Onboard, ..."

If you're using the onboard VGA port, that's what it should be set to. Newer bioses on mboards with onboard video often default to that initially or when you load bios defaults. If you set it to PCI slot or PCI-E, if you don't have a PCI or PCI-E video card, your onboard video will probably run at lesser specs in Windows rather than at the specs it was designed to run at.

If you get confused about the bios settings, in most cases the mboard and video will work fine with it set to Setup defaults.
Some settings you talk of only apply to PCI-E video.

"6- I tried changing the DDR2 voltage from a default value of 1.80V to 2.00V; I don't know if this would've fixed my original issue with Windows just restarting itself, but it certainly doesn't allow my Windows XP install CD to boot up."

You shouldn't mess with standard settings like that, at least not until your system is working properly. If you compatible ram modules, if the ram was meant to run at a higher voltage, setting the bios to By SPD will do that automatically. Modules are designed to use standard voltages - some better special ones, which you often pay more for, may be able to have their voltage upped more than a regular module will tolerate, but you are complicting things by messing with this, and you may DAMAGE the module(s).

". Initially, I was able to load up the Windows XP Install CD and get as far as the format. Now, the CD doesn't even boot up correctly. It certainly detects there's a disk in the CD-ROM that's trying to boot up, but as soon as I tell it to boot from the CD-ROM, it shows the "checking hardware" (or something) message real quick then the screen blacks."

All sorts of things can cause that, not just ram errors.
- Setup is very sensitive to even tiny errors reading your ram, that may not have been an obvious problem in Windows . If you're CERTAIN the ram is compatible, try cleaning it's contacts and making sure it is seated properly.
- Setup is very sensitive to errors reading your CD or DVD - make sure the disk is clean and free of major scratches - if the CD is a burned disk, CD-R disks are the most likely to be compatible; a CD-RW disk may not work properly in a drive it wasn't burned in - use a laser lens cleaning CD in the drive - your optical drive may be defective - if you have two drives, try the other one; or try another CD or DVD combo drive.
- Setup can sometimes do strange things when it doesn't recognize hardware or devices properly - disconnect or remove all cards and devices that aren't essential to run Setup, then try booting from the CD.

I'm certain this RAM was working fine before. I built the entire system back in October and it's been working fine up until this past weekend. I don't have another system that's compatible with this RAM, so I really can't test that out. They're set up in the correct slots, per the manual (same color). And again, the GSkill website doesn't have a full list of motherboards it's compatible with. However, what I can tell you is the specs of the RAM the motherboard is asking for matches the RAM kit I have.

I've used the defaults since October, which includes "By SPD". I suspect that would've given me the best (stock) performance. I've set it to initialize VGA first.

I do have a spare optical drive to test to see if I can get XP to load the installation again. I just find it weird that it was loading up fine before and no longer now. What's weirder is that Memtest is able to boot up fine. Even my Ubuntu Live CD booted up fine -- didn't load up all the way for some reason, but at least I saw part of the bootup.

At this point, I'm fairly certain there's fault in the hardware and nothing I will do will resolve this. In your opinion, Tubesandwires, do you think this is the RAM or motherboard?

I did some looking around.

It would have helped if you hadn't made a typo - you typed abit f-190hd , when it actually is an abit f-i90hd - easy mistake to make with some default fonts used in Windows.
I can't find any Qualified or Tested memory list for any ABit mboard on their site, here or elsewhere:
Fatal1ty F-I90HD support
http://www.uabit.com/index.php?opti...
E.g. LGA 775
ATI® RX1250 (a hit on the web says is a.k.a RS600)
ATI® RX700
CPU Support Intel® Core™2 Duo, Core™2 Quad, Core™2 Extreme CPUs
Memory Dual Channel DDR2-800/667/533, up to 16GB
Un-buffered Non-ECC memory

The Gskill site has a place to look up memory, but you can't look up a specific mboard model - they list according to whether you have an Intel or AMD cpu mboard rather than by the brand of mboard or system, and then you pick the chipset used, which is fine since it's primarily the chipset the ram has to get along with, but they don't list your ATI Radeon™ Xpress 1250 chipset, an ATI/AMD chipset used on both AMD and Intel cpu mboards.
By the way, your onboard graphics are considered by many to be the very best onboard graphics available.
They have absolutely no info about how the memory is organized on their ram modules (e.g. others such as Kingston have that info).

You could always try this - a post said they resond to email in a reasonable amount of time.
Contact Gskill
http://newgskill.web-bi.net/bbs/G_S...

Ask something such as this:

Which of your memory modules will work for sure in an Abit F-i90HD??

ATI Radeon™ Xpress 1250 (RS600) chipset
Graphics Technology ATI Radeon™ Xpress 1250 Integrated (X700-based)
......

I don't know why your ram worked fine with the settings it had until recently.
Most likely causes:
- the ram has developed poor connections in it's slots - cleaning the contacts and making sure the modules are properly seated should cure that - it ALWAYS has for me.
- your PS is failing - if it isn't putting out the voltage and/or amperage it was previously. That can certainly cause the ram to not receive the actual core voltage it needs. It is easy to check current voltage readings in your bios Setup - if any voltage is not within 5 to 10% of it's nominal value, the PS is definately failing, but sometimes there is nothing wrong there yet there is still an problem with the PS. However, check the voltages various times and with various loads to be sure. Try another PS if in doubt.

- bad ram is extremely RARE. It's a lot more likely you have a ram connection problem or the ram is incompatable.
- the least likely by far - something is wrong with the mboard.

I looked on the web for mentions of your module set ID string and f-i90hd.
I found no mentions of your module kit ID string AND f-i90hd, but I did find several that mentioned F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ AND f-i90hd, when I searched using f-i90hd AND Gskill.

"I was able to get the kits to run stable at 2.3v"
"I run 3 GB 2 x 1 GB + 2 x 512 MB G. Skill PC6400 in my ASUS P5B D at 2.25 volts all the time."
F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ (Specified 2.0 - 2.1 v)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...

This says it's the same as Micron D9GMH
"If the first 4 serial numbers are > 0605 (eg 0606) then you know they have the Micron"
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/2...

When I searched for just your module kit ID string....
This guy tested it - no problem with using 2.1v.
He overclocked it too.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...

F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ
Gskil says your ram was tested at 1.8 to 2.0 volts
2048MB kit (2x1024MB) 5-5-5-15 dual channel

If trying another PS doesn't help,
search the Gskill forums, and/or ask questions there.
http://www.gskill.com/gstechforum/

E.g. I found this:
http://www.gskill.com/gstechforum/v...
"(highend modules need around 2,1V to run properly @ DDR2-800!)
3. set the timings to 5-5-5-15 (if they're not set to this values automatically)"

"DDR2-800 problem on Socket 775 mainboards (esp. with Core2Duo)

Some mainboards are a little buggy, that means that they can run @ DDR2-800, but rarely non-overclocked.
Use DDR2-667 clock and do some overclocking-action. If the modules now run without any probs @ DDR2-800, your mainboard
is one of the bitchy ones. This "bug" is known for example on Abit AB9 and Asus P5W series.

edit #1
To figure out whether a problem is windows-related or not, you should perfome a test-session with MemTest86 (www.memtest86.com). If a long-run shows errors, Windows (yeah, or Linux ... it doesn't matter) is not "guilty" ...."

And this:
http://www.gskill.com/gstechforum/v...
"I've got an Abit AB9 Pro motherboard using 1gb G.Skill F2-6400PHU2-2GBNS ram and having problem running the ram at default 1.9v - 2.0v ddr800. At anything below or equal to 2.1v the system doesn't boot up and at 2.2v it runs but the computer is unstable. Using 2.3v it works perfectly and im wondering if it is safe to run at that voltage?"

"is the real VDimm @ 2,3V? maybe ur abit undervolts ... I've seen this once on a KN9Ultra. "

"according to abit uGuru the voltage fluctuate between 2.24 - 2.26v. The settings im using for the ram are 5, 5, 5, 15."

Just to sort of tie this up (well, maybe not quite yet), I have a huge update.

Perhaps I didn't give enough details about my system, but I'm not sure giving them in the first place would've helped me any further.

I have 3 hard drives in my system. 3 750GB hard drives.

I recently bought a another 500GB hard drive (and enclosure) that I'll be using on-the-go.

For kicks (and further troubleshooting), like I said I was going to do at one point, I pulled all the components out of my case and assembled everything back on my workdesk (static/danger-free, of course). I used the PSU that I've had in the case since the beginning; same CD-ROM drive; same motherboard; same RAM; same CPU.

The only thing I used that was different is the new 500GB hard drive since there's nothing on it and I can just format it later. I loaded up the same XP install CD I've been using all along, and it gave me the black screen. A few seconds later, it suddenly showed the normal XP installation blue screen.

I was able to format it fine, and install XP onto it fine.

I kept thinking to myself "the hard drive???"

Since I didn't want to use the 500GB drive as my main OS hard drive, I started moving files around and used one of the other 750GB hard drives to install XP onto. I partitioned it like my original "faulty" hard drive: 20GB for OS, the rest for data.

I was finally able to get my data the way I wanted it today, and interestingly enough, I'm still able to use my "faulty" hard drive as just a normal drive for data. I have no trouble accessing to it, writing or reading files to it. I have absolutely no idea why that hard drive was giving me trouble. Perhaps it was just the 20GB partition; but I've merged this with the other large partition and still no problems. I'll continue to monitor it as I start filling it back up.

I let the system run 24/7 for a couple days, pretty much like I've been using it the months prior, and I haven't had a crash or BSOD since.

I did run Memtest on the RAM again (both sticks in); unfortunately, I'm still getting the errors. Even with these errors (and I suspect I've had them since October), I don't see any performance drop, etc -- just the BSOD I got a week ago. I'll need to do further testing and see if I get any errors with just one stick in.

Perhaps it's a sign for things to come. I suspect I may need to swap out some hardware. At this point, I'm still confused as to what exactly to change -- motherboard or RAM.

Check your hard drives with the manufacturer's diagnostics.
See the latter part of response 1 in this:
http://www.computing.net/windows95/...

When any are IDE connected......
It is common to un-intentionally damage IDE data cables, especially while removing them - the 80 wire ones are more fragile. What usually happens is the cable is ripped at either edge and the wires there are either damaged or severed, often right at a connector or under it's cable clamp there, where it's hard to see - if a wire is severed but it's ends are touching, the connection is intermittant.
Another common thing is for the data cable to be separated from the connector contacts a bit after you have removed a cable - there should be no gap between the data cable and the connector - if there is press the cable against the connector to eliminate the gap.

For ones that are SATA data cable connected, make sure the connectors on both ends latch or lock into the header or socket - they should not come out or move when you simply wiggle the connector a bit - it is easy to unintentionally break off or damage the plastic bits that make them latch. If they move or come out easily, tape them in place or replace them.

Your ram symptoms still point to incompatible ram. Sometimes either module will work fine by itself, but when two are installed they cannot.
I strongly suspect if you were to try ram that is listed as compatible somewhere you will no longer have and ram problems.

I was not impressed at all with the info I found out about GSkill ram. It seems it it isn't truly 100% compatible in a lot of cases.