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Powers up with no POST

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Name: KiShKoN
Date: August 30, 2006 at 10:32:08 Pacific
OS: WinXP Pro SP2
CPU/Ram: AMD Athlon XP 2500 1.8GHz
Product: Custom Built
Comment:

My trusty old system (in my sig) has been acting up the last 2 days.

I was using a Microsoft optical wheel mouse, USB but on a PS2 adapter. When I booted up yesterday, my mouse was lit but did track (no cursor movement). To test if the mouse worked at all, I hit the winkey and then clicked the mouse to see if it would make the start menu close (because the cursor was in the middle of the screen). It did...which indicated to me that the mouse might just be crap now. No big deal...I have 2 of them. I switched it, booted, no issues with the mouse.

Today...I boot...same problem. I say screw it and go grab my old PS2 logitech wheel mouse (mechanical, not optical). Turn off, connect the mouse, turn back on.

NO POST!

I hear the drive turn on, but on a lower RPM than they run at for POSTing and booting in general. Fans all on, LEDs (case and removable drive bay) all lit. However, no POST, no vid out, no nothing.

Now...you should know I disconnected my system speaker because it's EXTREMELY loud, comparable to a car horn out in the driveway (anyone with this motherboard knows that). I figured it made no difference because the system beeps play through my speakers AS WELL AS the system speaker...the issue was my speakers were off at the time of this problem.

In short, I don't know the beep code and I won't until the next time the problem happens.

Pressing reset and holding for 10 seconds did not fix it. Putting the system into "Soft Off" (press and hold power button) did not fix it.

I pulled the plug for 15 seconds, then plugged it back in and powered up.

BIOS told me that it failed to boot several times (that's nice...too bad it can't tell me something useful), but other than that I had a clean, quick boot.

I knew the first thing I had to do was post here and hope I don't bluescreen or something before I finish typing...lol.

Anyone have any ideas?

-Kevin

ASRock K7S41GX
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton 1850MHz
512MB DDR333
WD 160GB IDE HDD
ATI Radeon 9200 128MB AGP8x



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Response Number 1
Name: ham30
Date: August 30, 2006 at 11:43:27 Pacific
Reply:

My 'guess' would be a static shock to the motherboard when swapping mice caused it to temporarily die Pulling the AC cord and replacing it allowed it to recover. But that's only one possibility out of maybe dozens of reasons.

Do yourself a favor BACKUP!


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Response Number 2
Name: KiShKoN
Date: August 30, 2006 at 12:41:13 Pacific
Reply:

Well, if that's the problem, then I can rest a little easier...

However, you're right, it could be one of many different things.

My thoery is my board might be on its way out (though I have no evidence to support this), which caused the PS2 port to malfunction originally, and then escalated to a power distribution problem somewhere in the boards circuitry.

You're theory is much more reassuring:) Been running without problems since I posted the original thread...also restarted

Fingers crossed...

-Kevin

ASRock K7S41GX
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton 1850MHz
512MB DDR333
WD 160GB IDE HDD
ATI Radeon 9200 128MB AGP8x


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Response Number 3
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: August 30, 2006 at 17:23:39 Pacific
Reply:

Your power supply could be failing. Problems may be intermittant at first. Out of whack voltages can cause strange problems. See response 4 in this:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/wwwboard/forum/44871.html

You could have a loose or poor connection inside your case. Remove the power to your power supply, open up the case, make sure everything is well seated, including the main connector from the power supply.
While you're in there make sure the heatsink is not clogged with mung, and the cpu fan is fairly clean. When you've finished doing that, restore power, start it up, and make sure the cpu fan is spinning okay.



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Response Number 4
Name: KiShKoN
Date: August 30, 2006 at 19:46:52 Pacific
Reply:

Ha, way ahead of you.

Checked all connectors after my second post.

I already had a PSU die on me once, I noticed that my LEDs were all flickering and my drive kept dying on me. In the end, it turned out I had a bad hard drive AND a bad PSU...imagine that.

I've had this PSU less than 6 months...I certainly hope that isn't the problem...but it is one of the more likely ones.

I check the things you mentioned every once in awhile, I consider it part of 'regular maintenance'.

Thanks for the input...my two ideas were a dying mobo or a dying PSU, but since the PSU is so young I wasn't expecting it to be that.

In any event, if problems persist I won't particularly care to fix it as long as I can get it to boot sometimes, I am shopping for a new A64 system (I've posted countless hardware comparison threads that seem to annoy the hell out of people on here).

-Kevin

ASRock K7S41GX
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton 1850MHz
512MB DDR333
WD 160GB IDE HDD
ATI Radeon 9200 128MB AGP8x


0

Response Number 5
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: August 30, 2006 at 20:44:07 Pacific
Reply:

"I've had this PSU less than 6 months...I certainly hope that isn't the problem..."

There are lots of poor PS's being sold these days - more than ever before. If you paid less than $40 or so for the PS, it is a lot more likely to fail.


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Response Number 6
Name: KiShKoN
Date: August 31, 2006 at 01:31:27 Pacific
Reply:

$40, sale from $50.

It was the cheapest option...at the time, it was the most practical one too.

I think it's likely that those 'bad' PSUs have always been around, even since the old days of 8-bit computing...any part you want, you can find a good version and a cr@p version. Chances are we just notice it more these days because we demand higher performance from all of our parts.

ASRock K7S41GX
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton 1850MHz
512MB DDR333
WD 160GB IDE HDD
ATI Radeon 9200 128MB AGP8x


0

Response Number 7
Name: broncodeuce
Date: August 31, 2006 at 06:47:37 Pacific
Reply:

what kind of psu is it? make/model/amperage on the +12?

it's entirely possble that, even if you bought a quality PSU, it's giving up the ghost. If that does end up being the problem, i'd look at your system for a reason. a friend of mine went through 3 psus before we figured out that a fan was shorting itself out and messing them up..

Gigabyte GA-K8NS
Athlon64 3000+ Venice E6
Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu LED
X800XL 256MB AGP
1GB Corsair PC3200 VS
120GB WD/160GB Maxtor
Aspire Chameleon 550W


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Response Number 8
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: August 31, 2006 at 09:17:24 Pacific
Reply:

I disagree.

In the days of 8 bit computing there was no internet - if a company was found to be making poor PS's, it wasn't long before that company went out of business from lack of orders and a bad reputation. Early PS's were several hundred dollars, the quality control was likely to be quite good, and it was rare for a PS to go bad - ones I've had in computers from the early days, and still have a few of, worked/work fine. In fact I can't recall any that failed on me.
Nowadays vendors can get away with selling crap PS's a lot easier than they could back then because even if they have a bad reputation they can still sell enough PS's to suckers to stay in business - some even periodically change their brand on the PS, or sell them under OEM to others who re-sell them under brands which change over time. It seems quite evident to me the number of these poor PS's greatly increased about the time Super Socket 7's and PIII's came out, when the numbers of people using the internet was surging, and it's gotten worse since.


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Response Number 9
Name: KiShKoN
Date: August 31, 2006 at 09:56:49 Pacific
Reply:

broncodeuce:

The following URL goes to a picture I took of the label on my PSU. As you can see, it is completely generic and doesn't even have a UL number! I SOOO got ripped off...

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/kkishkon/PowerSupply.jpg

Unfortunately, I cannot tell you my current amperages because my multimeter is some 20km away at the moment. However, I can tell you the voltages that SpeedFan is reporting:

Vcore: 1.65
+3.3: 3.15
+5: 5.00
+12: 11.80
-12: 1.21
-5: 2.29
+5VSB: 5.54
VBAT: 0.03

A couple of those numbers are really, really scary looking...

Tubesandwires:
I understand what you're saying...true, older power supplies rarely fail. HOWEVER, what I was saying is that there was practically no demand on them like in today's components.

Yes, quality has definitely dropped. No question about that. Though, that is not the only factor.

-Kevin

ASRock K7S41GX
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton 1850MHz
512MB DDR333
WD 160GB IDE HDD
ATI Radeon 9200 128MB AGP8x


0

Response Number 10
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: August 31, 2006 at 11:45:59 Pacific
Reply:

The meter in ammeter mode must be connected in series, so that all the current passes through the meter.
It's difficult measuring amperage of a mboard circuit without having to cut wires and connect them together again afterward unless you rig up some adaptation or adapter that allows you to sever a circuit and insert the meter leads between the severed ends, such as at the main connector from the PS.
Finding out the current voltages is relatively easy and does not require cutting of wires or the use of an adapter, and is a fairly good indicator or whether you have problems with the PS.
However, like I said in that info I pointed you too, if the voltages don't seem that bad, sometimes you must use a program such as Speedfan in Windows set to constantly monitor and warn you if there are problems in order to figure out when you are having problems as they happen to get the true picture.

Programs like Speedfan must be able to auto detect or be set to the actual correct hardware reading chip(s) on the mboard, and they assume the inputs are connected the way the chip designers intended.
You should also examine the current voltages in the bios Setup - if Speedfan has got it right the readings will be the same or very similar - if the readings are different the Setup readings are more likely to be correct, especially if the mboard sensor inputs to the chip(s) were not are connected the way the chip designers intended.
The current readings in the bios Setup are usually pretty close to readings you get with a meter, but obviously you have multiple places you can test some of the voltages with a meter.

If your Vbat was actually 0.03 volts, the bios/cmos wouldn't be able to retain any user settings including the time and date, and you would be getting a Cmos Checksum error or similar everytime you boot.


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Response Number 11
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: August 31, 2006 at 12:36:18 Pacific
Reply:

Don't waste your money buying a PS that is a lot bigger than you need unless your plan to use the PS with a newer mboard later.
Going by your specs in your posts, 300 watts would be fine if it is a good brand, but you may have a hard time finding any smaller than 350 watts. I've been told by a local place that builds oodles of custom computers that you don't need any more than 350 watts for current mboards unless you have a heavily loaded server or a mboard with PCI-e slots and you are using something in the slots such as a video card or cards.
Buy a PS of a brand with a good reputation, that has a warranty of at least a year, or preferably 3 years, and that has anti-short and overvoltage protection built in (it will shut down in those circumstances). Don't rely on a vendor's description - take a look at the specs for the model on the manufacturer's web site. If there is no web site, or if the web site is crummy, look elsewhere. Good brands often have Reviews or Awards their PS's have won listed on their web sites, and/or multiple country certification certificates in their manuals (most good brands have manuals or spec documents for their models available on the web site).
You don't necessarily have to order online. Even if you pay more locally, there is no shipping to pay if you pick it up - taking that into account it is often cheaper.
Good brands available locally vary in price depending on where you are. Where I am Enermax are a good deal (3 year warranty).


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Response Number 12
Name: KiShKoN
Date: September 2, 2006 at 10:13:29 Pacific
Reply:

Well, thanks for the input and suggestions...

However, I am having no problems now. None whatsoever. No boot problems, no running problems.

Sooo...I'm not going to fix what isn't broken.

Or, if it is broken, I will wait until it becomes obvious.

Thanks again,
Kevin

ASRock K7S41GX
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton 1850MHz
512MB DDR333
WD 160GB IDE HDD
ATI Radeon 9200 128MB AGP8x


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