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Subject: Powers up and thats it!

Original Message
Name: TzaneT
Date: January 25, 2008 at 09:29:55 Pacific
Subject: Powers up and thats it!
OS: Windows XP
CPU/Ram: AMD Athlon 64 FX-62 Wi
Comment:
I built my system back in May with no problems until about 3 weeks ago. I was loading a friends Ipod and had just got done loading it then unplugged it. My computer froze, I had to reboot by holding the power button on the front of the case until it went off and the turned it back on. The only thing that started were the heatsink fan and case fans. No monitor, keyboard/mouse, tries to access the hard drive and dvd drive. I have since replaced the motherboard with the same Crosshair. I also put in new memory (2X1GB Patriot Extreme) . I am running out of things to replace. Could the CPU have fried due to a static charge from me unplugging the Ipod? All help is appreciated.


Excuse me while I whip this out!


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Response Number 1
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: January 25, 2008 at 09:51:33 Pacific
Subject: Powers up and thats it!
Reply: (edit)
Probably the number one cause of symtoms like yours:

Failing power supplies are common and can cause your symptoms.
E.g. they will often partially work, yet the computer won't fully boot.
Check your PS.
See response 4 in this:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

If you paid a lot less than about $40 for your new power supply, it is what we can an el-cheapo - it is a lot more likely to fail than one costing more.

Whatever power supply you have, if you tell us what brand and model it is, we can probably confirm whether it is an el-cheapo in your case.

Since the system was working fine previously, there is probably nothing wrong with:
- the original mboard (Crossfire, not Crosshair, unless it's an Asus).
- the cpu
"Could the CPU have fried due to a static charge from me unplugging the Ipod?"
If your computer is plugged into a grounded AC source like it's supposed to be, NO.
- the ram it had in it before.
Contrary to popular belief, bad ram is extremely RARE!
If you think there is something wrong with your original ram, see the info at the end of this post.

As for you using ram in it that was NOT installed in it before:

Ram that works in another mboard , or any ram you buy or have lying around, may not work properly, or sometimes, not at all - even if it physically fits and is the right overall type (e.g. DDR, DDR2, etc.; PCxxxx, xxx mhz) for your mboard. In the worst cases of incompatibilty your mboard may not boot with it installed, and the mboard may not beep - the ram has to be compatible with the mboard and it's chipset.

See response 5 in this for some info about ram compatibilty, and some places where you can find out what will work in your mboard for sure:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...
Correction to that:
Mushkin www.mushkin.com

In your case, look up which modules work in your mboard model for sure on the Patriot web site, if you can.

It is easy to test for incompatible ram that has caused your mboard to fail to boot.

Make sure you have a speaker or speakers connected to the mboard so you can hear mboard beeps (see your mboard manual).
Remove the AC power to the case/power supply.
Remove all the ram.
Restore AC power.
Try to boot.
If nothing else is wrong, you will hear a pattern of beeps that indicate no ram is installed, or a ram problem.
E.g. for an Award bios or a bios based on one, that's often a beep of about a half second, silence for a half second, a beep of about a half second, silence for a half second, continuously.
.......

If you DO have a problem with ram that worked fine previously, and in this case, if you have ruled out eveything else that can cause no boot or a partial boot:

A common thing that can happen with ram, even ram that worked fine previously, is the ram has, or has developed, a poor connection in it's slot(s).
This usually happens a long time after the ram was installed, but it can happen with new ram, or after moving the computer case from one place to another, and I've had even new modules that needed to have their contacts cleaned.

See response 2 in this - try cleaning the contacts on the ram modules, and making sure the modules are properly seated:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

If you do a ram test, do that AFTER having tried cleaning the contacts and making sure the ram is seated properly - otherwise any errors found may be FALSE.
If the ram is incompatible with the chipset, it will likely FAIL a ram test - that is NOT a true indication of the ram being faulty - there is probably nothing wrong with it, and it will pass the test if installed in a mboard it is compatible with.


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Response Number 2
Name: jam
Date: January 25, 2008 at 10:41:59 Pacific
Subject: Powers up and thats it!
Reply: (edit)
"I am running out of things to replace"

Randomly replacing parts without attempting to diagnose the cause of the problem isn't troubleshooting...it's guesswork. Unless you're lucky, it can end up being very expensive.

Test your power supply.


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Response Number 3
Name: TzaneT
Date: January 25, 2008 at 11:20:16 Pacific
Subject: Powers up and thats it!
Reply: (edit)
Thanks for responding. I do have the Asus Crosshair and the previous memory was the same Patriot. (Patriot Extreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory) I ordered the extra RAM to have 4GB instead of 2, great deal at newegg. I also tried the new RAM in a different slot to no avail. The PSU I bought through Frys.com (Ultra X-Finity™ 600 Watt PSU - Titanium) I will try a new PSU, What are some suggestions for me?

Excuse me while I whip this out!


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Response Number 4
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: January 25, 2008 at 12:46:09 Pacific
Subject: Powers up and thats it!
Reply: (edit)
Ultra is one I'm not familar with. I do know Tiger Direct sells a lot of them. Going by the regular prices, they may be okay, but Tiger Direct often has them on sale for much less, so ??.
On the other hand, any PS can become defective or fail.

OR it could have been damaged by something else.
Is your computer and everything that connects to it that connects to AC, and your cable that connects you to the internet, plugged into something that protects it/them against power spikes and surges?
If not, your PS may have been damaged by a power spike or surge.
If there has been a lightning strike somewhere on your AC power grid, it can damage the PS even if you do have such protection.

OR, I had one PS fail when I merely plugged in a hard drive power connector when there was still live AC being supplied to the power supply - the computer was off. ATX mboards are always powered in some places even when the computer is off, as long as live AC is being supplied to the power supply, so when you do anything inside the case, that live AC should be disconnected from your PS.

If the PS stinks as I described, it's probably failing. If you don't have a good sense of smell, get a woman to smell it, or a non-smoker.

If you don't want to risk buying a new PS, borrow one if you can - any capacity 430 watts and up will do fine for testing purposes for your system.

There are lots of good PSs out there, but there are also lots of bad ones.
I buy Enermax or Antec - I can get really good prices locally for Enermax ones where I am and the quality is as good as Antec. AOpen, StarTech are good cheaper ones, Thermaltake, PowerCooler, CoolerMaster are good. Others who answer posts here may have some other suggested brands.
Generally:
- don't buy the cheapest PS you can find after serching all over that has the capacity rating you want - it's probably xxxx - an el-cheapo.
- quality PSs have more robust or larger components that are heavier. If two PSs are the same capacity and one is a lot heavier than the other, the heavier one is probably the better one, especially when heavily loaded.
- it should have a decent manufacturer's web site with the warranty info findable somewhere on the site. A crappy web site - probably a PS to avoid buying.
- on that site it should have a warranty of at least a year - 3 is much better (e.g. Enermax, Antec) - some have lifetime. No warranty info found - don't buy it.
- it must have anti-short and overvoltage protection, preferably that shuts off the PS immediately when a short happens or any voltage exceeds a maximum (e.g. over 10% above the nominal voltage).
- two or more fans is better than one - it or they should have ball bearings, or better (ceramic, fluid filled) on both sides.


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Response Number 5
Name: jam
Date: January 25, 2008 at 14:22:50 Pacific
Subject: Powers up and thats it!
Reply: (edit)
Don't buy a new PSU until you test the one you have!

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Response Number 6
Name: TzaneT
Date: February 3, 2008 at 12:19:57 Pacific
Subject: Powers up and thats it!
Reply: (edit)
Well I'm back and have tested the PSU and according to the results everything is in working order. What's next? Thanks again for everyone's responses.


Excuse me while I whip this out!


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Response Number 7
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: February 3, 2008 at 18:22:13 Pacific
Subject: Powers up and thats it!
Reply: (edit)
The only for sure test that eliminates the PS as being the cause of your problem is to try the PS you want to test on a known working computer - if it works with that other computer fine there's probably nothing wrong with it.

E.g. If you used one of those cheap devices that check for the presence of the various voltages, some of which can tell you if they are within a normal range, those can't tell you if there is something else wrong with the PS that prevents it from fully booting the computer.
E.g. the most important component and circuits on the PS is it's integrated circuit and associated circuits. In addition to rapidly switching the input AC voltage such that in effect the input AC is reduced to a value that can be regulated to + and - 12v DC (there is no transformer in the PS that does that), that chip and circuitry interprets the power good signal the mboard generates when the mboard has received good enough voltages, etc. If any of that is faulty, the PS won't fully boot the computer even if the voltages are within a normal range.
.....

If you did try the PS you want to test on a known working computer and it works fine......

Ok then.
"...the previous memory was the same Patriot. (Patriot Extreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory)..."

As I said in response 1.........
"Ram that works in another mboard , or any ram you buy or have lying around, may not work properly, or sometimes, not at all - even if it physically fits and is the right overall type (e.g. DDR, DDR2, etc.; PCxxxx, xxx mhz) for your mboard."
etc.

Does all the ram have the same module ID strings (part numbers), or do you have sets with two different strings?
If they're not the same, or in any case, they must all have ID strings that are on the list of compatible modules Patriot provides for you mboard model.


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