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Last night I installed a new graphics card into my 2 year old system - it was a Sapphire Radeon 9800Pro. I switched on, and everything went well for a while. I installed the drivers, cinfugred system accordingly, and then proceeded to play Call of Duty at high graphics setting. This lasted about 20 minutes.
Then.....bang. PC cut out, everything went dead (bit like a power cut). Of course, it wasn't a power cut, since other electrical items were working OK. But the PC wouldn't switch on any more. I 'think' there was a 'slight' smell of burning, but wasn't sure, and there wasn't any obvious signs of burning anywhere.
Even with the PC off, but power connected, I can see several lights illuminated on the motherboard. A green LED (which I think just signifies that the motherboard is receiving power - but not sure) and another one next to the ethernet port on the motherboard.
Pressing the on/off button appears to have no effect - no fans, no beep codes, nothing - as if it were disconnected.
First thought would usually be the PSU, but since these lights are on, presumably the PSU must be working and supplying power. Likewise, if the lights are on, can I assume that the motherboard is working?
But how do I go about investigating the problem further?
I know the usual step is to take each component and place it into another base machine. But unfortunately, I don't have access to another one at the moment. (I've actually just ordered a new PC, but there's a 3 week wait for delivery!)
I definitely need access to the machine (ie. the data) ASAP, so I have to take drastic action. I think I'm going to have to buy some new cheap components to replace the potentially broken ones (I'll be selling all the components in a month's time anyway, so I'll just have to accept a small loss on these recent purchases).
But which ones are likely to have gone kaput?
The motherboard? The processor? Others, like the graphics card (heaven forbid, since it's brand new!), sound card, hard drives, optical drive....?
One thing I do remember, when I replaced the graphics card was the amount of dust on the old one. I recall dust flying around for a bit. I know (in hindsight!) that I should have cleaned up all the dust before proceeding - but we all learn by our mistakes....
Any help/advice greatly appreciated!
Cheers,
Don
"First thought would usually be the PSU, but since these lights are on, presumably the PSU must be working and supplying power"
Could still be the PSU as it may have power, but won't work under a load (turning on comp) Start there.When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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Start by removing your cards - just leave the CPU & memory in - see if you get any sign of life. If this doesn't work, remove the memory & try again. At least this will narrow down the possibilities. If it works, add hardware until it fails. Incidentally, if you have one, start by removing just the PCI modem & trying again.
"I know that I'm mad - I've always been mad..."
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The power supply has a several cuircuts to supply different voltages there could be a fault that affects only one voltage range.
I'd go with johnr's suggestion and strip the pc down to the bare min, use the old graphics card. If its still dead try a new psu.
If you need access to your data buying a cheap old pc and putting your HD in it is a better option than buying random new components to put in your computer.
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If your powersupply blew (and it certainly sounds like it did) they have a habit of frying other things such as motherboard, CPU, graphics and ram when they go. There is no point buying replacements for any of these without knowing which one/ones are dead. The only way you can test is to try each component in a known working rig. Take the box to a tech to have them test it. Then put whatever used parts you can get to get it working until your new rig arrives. There's no point buying new bits for a rig you're only going to junk in three weeks anyway.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
Teach him to fish and you feed him for life.
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Get another 450 or higher, PSU.
The PSU could still supply power, it may have shorted due to overload. It may not have fried anything, it may have had a good old cookout on your motherboard. You'll only know if you get a new one and test.
So off ya go, Here's hoping (and Praying) that your machine didn't bite the dust.
See ya. Oh, and a tell tale sign is to look at those resistors/capcitors on your moatherboard. If the tops off them (usually have a cross has mark engraved into the top of them) have become 'bulbous', ie NOT FLAT then it is a bad sign. But, never say never. It could all be fine.
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PC went bang!  :-(
Now that's a subject that attracts attention.
I agree with the folks above...get a good power supply (something like Francis suggested) and take it from there. This is not an uncommon problem.
Skip
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richard, a bad psu won't take out any other components of the computer.....Lightning would be the only way a voltage transient thru (or from) a psu would be high enough to cause damage elsewhere.
But psupplies could fail due to shorts in moboards, hard drives, etc that load the psu too much....psu fail due to heat, age, amount of load, luck, quality, design, air circulation, dust, etc.
i think i had seen you post something similar before, just letting you know, cool, B
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If it `really' went bang, that sounds like a capacitor in the power supply exploded. Open up the power supply and check.
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I agree with Richard.....when power supplies go bad they usually damage other hardware components. I've seen this happening several times.
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"a bad psu won't take out any other components of the computer.....Lightning would be the only way a voltage transient thru (or from) a psu would be high enough to cause damage elsewhere" So what you're saying is nothing could possibly draw enough current to blow anything up except a lightning strike? Guess again
When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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"when power supplies go bad they usually damage other hardware components. I've seen this happening several times." ..........no what happens is i still believe the other way around, but i respect you if you've seen it.
I believe a lightning strike would be just about the only thing that could cause a transient that surpases the slew rate and voltage rating of protection circuitry in the psu, esp. how fast voltage regulators 'open'. but I am only 25 years old. i respect you if you say you've seen it, but i have one degree in electronics engineering technology, and never seen it and don't believe it to happen.
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"nothing could possibly draw enough current to blow anything up" draw? from ground to the open? electron or hole flow?
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You say you have one degree in electronics engineering technology, and never seen it and don't believe it to happen. Yet when I troubleshoot circuit boards and have had electrical parts short to ground (for various reasons) it draws enough current to blow parts up (right down to a dried out electrolytic capacitor went up in my face) And when I say blown up, I mean an actual flame that blew 2 inches in front of me (lucky for safety goggles) That current draw from the dried out capacitor burnt traces open on the circuit board I was working on. Does that explain draw to you?
When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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if a component shorts in a psu, what ever is after that (moboard, harddrive, etc) sees a voltage drop, not harming it. only a voltage higher than what it can contain will cause damage. Whatever components in the psu that are before the short will be affected by the higher current to gnd. Either the shorted component will open or one or more of the compontents before it in the power supply will open.
for instance... a computer has a 12v supply, that voltage would have to reach, say for instance, 15.2 volts before it would damage the motherboard, hard drive, etc. Just about the only way this will happen is to take a screwdriver and put one end at the fuse and put 120AC on the leads going to the motherboard.
my friend is here too and i mentioned this to him. he was once head keyboard technician for Peavey electronics. we both do electronics repair at a local music store together. he works on anything, even tube amps. he says "99.9% of the time i'm correct"
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"had electrical parts short to ground"
....exactly, say a component of the psu shorts to ground..... components before it in the psu see the current. motherboard and hard drive etc see a drop in voltage or virtually no voltage, until something opens and the psu is dead.the cap that blew in you face was before the shorted component or whatever component you shorted though. ,B
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My mistake, I apologize, My thoughts were that electricity takes the shortest path to ground. So if something is on that path "after" the shorted component then it isn't affected? Hmm.... I learned something new today.
When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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trust me!, LOL, B
(oh just curious, serious, why did that cap exceed its voltage rating and blow up?)
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so we'll just put half what i say and half what my friend says together, okay? LOL
"99.9% of the time a bad power supply will NOT damage other components of the computer"
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I'm not arguing that. What I am arguing is that you stated "a bad psu won't take out any other components of the computer" which is not true. I agree, most of the time a PSU giving out generally will not take other parts with it. But it does happen.
When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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richard said..."If your powersupply blew (and it certainly sounds like it did) they have a habit of frying other things such as motherboard, CPU, graphics and ram when they go."
............now this is where it started, talking about a Bad psu. where've you Been???lol
We are talking about a "bad" or "giving out" power supply in respects that it has a short in it, or open in which it is not supplying power. ONLY SHORTS AND OPENS!. Shorts in power supplies and opens in power supplies DO NOT DAMAGE other components of the computer. Just like you agreed to above....it has nothing to do with "good" psu, "bad" psu, "going out" psu..... But it would have to do with "redesign psu" lolThe only way you'll damage the mother board, hard drive, whatever is to exceed voltage ratings. What are you gonna do, take out the 12v rails voltage regulator and replace it with an 18v.
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Actually response 1 (mine) recommends that the PSU is bad, so where have you been?
"Shorts in power supplies and opens in power supplies DO NOT DAMAGE other components of the computer." "The only way you'll damage the mother board, hard drive, whatever is to exceed voltage ratings. What are you gonna do, take out the 12v rails voltage regulator and replace it with an 18v."
No, but you can short one of the power rails which would cause high current to the mobo, which in turn can damage something other than the PS. This is the point that I am trying to make.When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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the only way to damage moboard, harddrive, etc. is to exceed voltage ratings. please give me an example of when this can happen. other than taking a screw driver and going from the 120AC at the fuse to the leads going out of the psu. i've got to go eat something!
(now just opens and shorts)
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BTW I'm enjoying this discussion we're having. I also have an electronics background (senior tech at a small company) and often enjoy debates like this.
When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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"you can short one of the power rails which would cause high current to the mobo" COMPLETELY WRONG,
we're talking about a psu or components that open and short on their own. like the psu problem don is having. Not taking a screw driver and causing a short yourself.you can short from the output of the 12v rail to the motherboard like your saying. your saying it will damage computer parts. BUT IT wont. 12volts is 12 volts. but if you shorted from the output of the 12v rail of the psu to something designed on the mother board to take the 5v. Heck yea you'll probably damage something other than psu.
now, can you give and example of the mother board, hard drive, etc getting a voltage greater that what it's rated for. Other than shorting it yourself.
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Ok, here goes (and hope you enjoy your meal) I'll be around until 9:00 (eastern) before the presidential debate.
High stress to a power supply will shorten the life of it. One way to put stress on the PS is to overload it (200 Watt power supply trying to run 300 Watts of equipment mounted in your computer) This high stress is causing your power rails to overwork trying to keep up with the power demand. The overworking PS is causing your regulators to strain heavily to maintain the 12V, 5V, etc. If a capacitor or resistor or any other type of component within that regulator circuitry becomes weak, it can essentially burn out and short to ground (I've seen this in driver boards on J&J blood analyzers). The component that now shorted to ground can take out the power supply and any other piece of hardware that is within that circuit. I've actually seen holes blown out of IC's because of the high current draw from voltage running straight to ground.
I eagerly await your response.When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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"you can short one of the power rails which would cause high current to the mobo"............it has nothing to do with the current to the mobo. Just voltage.
the only time you talk current here is- if something had the initiative to put 25volts on the motherboard, can it supply the current at that 25v needed to damage components
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I'm gonna straighten some of you out, right here and now. As a person who is old enough (and has) worked on U.S. Navy RADAR gear that was designed in the "big" war, and who has through the years worked on all kinds of vacuum tube gear, hybrid tube/solid state gear, and now computers, I can tell you this:
A failure in a power supply ABSOLUTELY can fail in such a way or combination of ways, that it can cause a voltage increase or surge or spike, or whatever other term you want to use, as well as AC components on TOP of the DC componet,
AND FAILURE OF OTHER COMPONENTS is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY the possible result.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, the act of "other components" failing can ALSO cause a sort of chain reaction, that will cause EVEN MORE components to fail.
I don't care if some of you have seen "a hundred" computers, this can, and does, happen.
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"One way to put stress on the PS is to overload it (200 Watt power supply trying to run 300 Watts of equipment mounted in your computer) " ................that isn't dons problem though, (the initial problem), We've NEVER brought up OVERLOADING until now. completely off the subject of if a pwr supply (going out or bad ON ITs own, on its own, on its own, on its own!) can damage other computer components. Overloading is not "on its own."
this is what richard said, i was simply stating that he was wrong, nothing about a person deliberately putting over rated voltages on mobos or overloading psu....."If your powersupply blew (and it certainly sounds like it did) they have a habit of frying other things such as motherboard, CPU, graphics and ram when they go"
you said "If a capacitor or resistor or any other type of component within that regulator circuitry becomes weak, it can essentially burn out and short to ground (I've seen this in driver boards on J&J blood analyzers). The component that now shorted to ground can take out the power supply and any other piece of hardware that is within that circuit. I've actually seen holes blown out of IC's because of the high current draw from voltage running straight to ground."............we discussed this. yes those shorts happen. but the components after those shorts see less voltage (no damage).....the shorted component and/or other components BEFORE it in the circuitry will eventually open. NOT DAMAGING THE MOBO, HD, ETC
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"it has nothing to do with the current to the mobo. Just voltage" It has everything to do with the current to the mobo. As you know. E=IR. If you take a constant 12 VDC supply and apply it over a 100 ohm resistor, your current is 120mA now take and short the voltage to ground (0 ohm resistor) and now your current is 12 Amps. Not sure what you mean by your second statement "the only time you talk current here is- if something had the initiative to put 25volts on the motherboard, can it supply the current at that 25v needed to damage components"
Thanks name, that's kind of what I'm trying to say (maybe not as well though?)When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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Ok so I'm digressing a little. I'm just trying to show a way that a power supply can take out another piece of hardware. I'm not necessarily talking in this case (which now I'm feeling bad about for the initial post and I apologize). But this is also a discussion forum and the original poster has never responded either. As far as components further down the circuit, I kind of disagree with that. Components have a voltage and current rating. That entire circuit has a high current which can cause any component to burn up. I believe the component that will burn up is the one that's the weakest on that circuit.
When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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name -finally someone else, i think angrymen is tired of me by now, lol.
but please give me an example of this in switching pwr supplies.
"IN ADDITION TO THAT, the act of "other components" failing can ALSO cause a sort of chain reaction, that will cause EVEN MORE components to fail." .....so if a component shorts to gnd....the other components directly affected by that are the ones before it right? not the mobo.
i'm going to eat now. i promise- i'm going this time.
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Just reread your post about where voltage stops and a light bulb went off. I agree with that.
When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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"I believe the component that will burn up is the one that's the weakest on that circuit." ......yes, before the short to gnd! and not the mobo
what i'm saying about the voltage/current is. You were talking about "you" applying over rated voltaged to the mobo with shorts or something. if 'you' had the initiative to put 25v on a mobo to blow it up, could you supply the current at that voltage?i said..."it has nothing to do with the current to the mobo. Just voltage"......I am right.........what does it matter if you give the mobo 20 amps on the 12v supply or 100 Amps on the 12 volt supply? You're not forcing current in there!
have you ever bought a ac to dc 12v/200mA power supply for a piece of equipment that's rating at 12V/100mA. YOU CAN DO THAT! wewwww
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You are forcing excess current if there is a short in the circuit.
When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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I'm not providing overrated voltage with shorts, Overrated current is provided with shorts. You can't change the voltage of a regulator (unless of course the regulator starts to lose it's life)
When all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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true i guess.
lolmy instructors at my university were unreal. i'm gonna try to call them one day next week. i'm no rocket scientist. although at school i was part of a program that funded our school for us to come up w/ ways of using sonar waves to measure fuel consumption...reason for shuttle explosions.
i just need their pay..lol
but i'd like a real example of this in a switching supply. like transistor9 shorted- causing R78 to open- which was in the feedback path of amp23- causing harmonic oscillations bla bla......etc. etc.... and causing what name says ...."A failure in a power supply ABSOLUTELY can fail in such a way or combination of ways, that it can cause a voltage increase or surge or spike, or whatever other term you want to use, as well as AC components on TOP of the DC componet," well i'm gone...back tomorrow
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Rip me off an email when after you talk.
Use davenon@frontiernet.net
That's my more used email account
Nice talking to youWhen all else fails beat the $%!* out of it!!!
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wewww! i will. take care.
nice talking to you to!I know the analysis of a psu damaging a mobo or mobo damaging a psu may be too involved to get that specific.
but if/when you come accross a hard drive with shorted diodes AND the pwr supply doesn't work either, are you gonna say the pwr supply went first or hard drive? i still say 99.9% of the time it's not the pwr supply. i'll let ya know what i hear. take care! perhaps Sadam Hussein is more important than this too. lol
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Hi,
Dont have time to read all of the replies but i have had a little problem like yours before. I buit a brand new computers from scratch and just as i was about to take it to a LAN PArty i moved my desk and 2 of the removable HDD Cases werent screwed in they sliped back (whilst the pc was on)and there was a loud bang crackle pop! Smoke and everything from the Power Supply!! The pwoer cord was also frazzled and black! I was totally shocked and totally prepared to have to buy a new Pc. Any way about your problem my power suplly still did show a green light on the motherboard and when i pressed the pwoer button i got a green on light but no fans on the cpu ect.... i just needed a new PSU and all other components were fine. So my suggestion try a new PSU.Slick Blue Man
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Hi
If you heard a loud sharp bang, chances are its a blown capacitor. If you examine the motherboard and the internals of the power supply you may see a stain or you may actually spot the blown capacitor. A capacitor which has become damaged and no longer meets the initial specs, have a habit of exploding when placed under a heavier than usual load.
About all I suggest is have a look for a component which is damaged on the motherboard and in the power supply.
Addressing some other issues:
Motherboards do have some voltage protection, but some motherboards don't have pci overload protection. This means a damaged pci card (usually a couple of tracks are shorted together by some means)) can infact "cook" your motherboard. Generally, in those circumstances there's a fair bit of smoke produced, as the power supply does not cut off instantly.
When someone says the power suppy blew - what does this mean exactly. I'm sure Richard59 statement is a good generalisation of what many people experience, when damage is not limited to the power supply. This is when for whatever reason the High voltage 115/240 V AC input manages to short into the low voltage dc supply of the power supply. This circumvents s any voltage protection. Except for who are hands on or DIY sort of people, any one else has to rely on what the sevice shop has to say, and they don't say too much to demystify what really happened.
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Great discussion. Thanks for the insight. In future I might generalise by saying that a blown powersupply is often a sign that other components have failed as well and thorough testing of mobo etc is desirable at the same time as replacing the psu as the burnout could be repeated if the original cause is downstream.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
Teach him to fish and you feed him for life.
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Hi
Just clarifying my previous comment, many power supplys do just fail without affecting anything else. My comments were directed at PSU failure where damage was not just limited to the PSU, but to other voltage sensitive components.
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A comment. The argument so far is based on the assumption of single source power supplies, that there can be no damage downstream of the short. What of circuits that are powered by multi-sources (ex ATX +12, +5, +3.3, -5, -12)? If the circuit is powered by both 12v and 5v and the 12v shorts to ground then components may be subjected to reverse bias which may easily exceed the component ratings. My example is based on 2 SCSI drives lost when the 12v accidentally shorted to ground. In this case there was no damage to the power supply.
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OK you guys give it a rest.
I do need to point out one piece of bad advice given.
Response #2 johnr saying to take the memory
sticks out and try to power up the board.If he powers up that board without the memory
installed or the CPU for that matter he will
short the board out.The reason the board will short out is because the CPU and memory stick in slot one
completes the circuitry in the motherboard.
Having one or the other out will short the motherboard at the empty socket.The minimum hardware requirement to power up is PSU, mobo, CPU and 1 memory stick (2 sticks for olderboards Pentium and under), so start from there. If you dont believe me, call the guy up @ ASUS.
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Hi JChapoton.
That doesn't sound right. I'm sure even Asus have a beep code for missing Memory. If a board could short out rather than just not work, with cpu or memory removed, I wouldn't want it.
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 Monitor Error?
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2 sticks or 4
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