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New PSU?

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Name: splinters
Date: January 8, 2007 at 01:00:18 Pacific
OS: Media Centre 2005
CPU/Ram: X2 3800+
Product: Acer
Comment:

Just bough an off the shelf PC as it was cheaper than buying the parts separately and because I won a Geforce 7900GT and needed an upgrade. The PSU is a Liteon 275/300W with PFC and runs nice and quiet but I am told I need a bigger PSU to run the new card.
I used the extreme power calculator and it said I need 268 Watt for my system and that is if I add another 1gb of RAM to the 1Gb preinstalled.
Add to this the fact that my AMD chip is the energy efficient type running between 35W and 65W max.
So question is; do I actually need a new PSU?

Also, if I put the card in and the system becomes unstable, can a lower PSU actually do any harm other than instability?
I have a Q-Tec 400W PSU I can put in but it only has a 20 pin connector while my MOBO has 24 pin.

Any advice here is appreciated.



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Response Number 1
Name: Doctor1954
Date: January 8, 2007 at 04:13:37 Pacific
Reply:

Outpost has a 600 watt Ultra for $19.99 after rebate and shipping is free:

http://shop3.outpost.com/product/49...



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Response Number 2
Name: jam
Date: January 8, 2007 at 05:08:26 Pacific
Reply:

Power calculators only are only for wattage....amperage is what's important


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Response Number 3
Name: splinters
Date: January 8, 2007 at 05:09:35 Pacific
Reply:

I have a 400W available and am based in the UK but do I actually need a new PSU? I would much rather keep the one that is in there (voids warranty if I change it but Acer are OK about Ram and GPU upgrade).


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Response Number 4
Name: splinters
Date: January 8, 2007 at 06:23:58 Pacific
Reply:

Jam you sounds very knowledgeable on this. If I am able to post the details of the PSU that is in there would that help to know one way or the other?


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Response Number 5
Name: jam
Date: January 8, 2007 at 06:38:48 Pacific
Reply:

It would help to know the amperage ratings for the +3.3v, +5v, & +12v rails.


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Response Number 6
Name: splinters
Date: January 8, 2007 at 08:11:23 Pacific
Reply:

+3.3v 20A Max

+5v 20A Max (also gives spec for a +5v(SB) at 2A Max)

+12v 10A Max (also gives spec for a +12v2 at 13A Max)

3.3 and 5.5v rails 130W
12v and 12v2 rails 20A

Maximum power 300W

Does this help?


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Response Number 7
Name: splinters
Date: January 8, 2007 at 08:17:16 Pacific
Reply:

Actually I just picked this up from my local PC store (W0061 version with PFC);

http://www.thermaltake.com/product/...

I guess this will be OK?


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Response Number 8
Name: jam
Date: January 8, 2007 at 09:16:02 Pacific
Reply:

Thermaltake is a decent brand, but you really should have more amperage on the +12v rails, preferrably 18A on each.



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Response Number 9
Name: splinters
Date: January 8, 2007 at 09:30:00 Pacific
Reply:

Yeah, I was just comparing the specs on the two PSU's and the one I have in has very similar specs with the thermaltake only having more on the +5v (28A as opposed to 20 on the Liteon) and 12v2 (15A as opposed to 13A on the liteon).

I am happy to put the Thermaltake in but looking at these figures will it actually be any better than the liteon? It is still sealed so can be returned.


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Response Number 10
Name: jam
Date: January 8, 2007 at 10:09:27 Pacific
Reply:

Having enough amperage on the +12v rail is critical these days. The +5v rail isn't nearly as important as it used to be. If you see more than 20-30A on the +5v, it's usually because the PSU manufacturer is trying to inflate it's overall wattage rating.

for example:

5V * 25A = 125W

5V * 40A = 200W

So by stating 40A, the rating can be bumped up by 75W. And since the +5v rail is underutilized, that extra 75W is basically useless...but it looks good on paper.

Now I'm gonna throw a curve at you. The splitting of the +12v rail into +12v1, +12v2, +12v3, etc with a max of 18A each is something that's only been around for a few years...prior to that, PSUs had just one +12v rail that might have 20, 30, or more amps. Now read this article:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default....


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Response Number 11
Name: splinters
Date: January 8, 2007 at 10:57:13 Pacific
Reply:

I picked some of this up on another site Jam but now I am confused.
The Liteon PSU in the new PC would seem to have 23A spread across two rails giving 276Watts and the 3.3 and 5 combine to give 166W-total=442W

However case says maximum on 3.3 and 5 rails is 130W and 12v rails 20A (or 240Watt).

Either way is that not 370 Watts?

PSU states that at ambient 25 degree output should not exceed 300W, and at 50 degrees it should not exceed 270 Watts.

If an extra 5A (60W) on the 12v of the Thermaltake makes that PSU a 420Watt, surely the Liteon is a 360 Watt PSu...and if the thermaltake would run a gefroce 7900GT why would the Liteon struggle?


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Response Number 12
Name: jam
Date: January 8, 2007 at 11:15:54 Pacific

Response Number 13
Name: Doctor1954
Date: January 8, 2007 at 11:27:38 Pacific
Reply:

splinters, this has been an interesting thread to follow.

If you are happy with your current PSU, stay with it.

I think that the 420 watt Thermaltake that you linked above and the 600 watt Ultra that I made reference to in my post give you more head room but it's your call.

Good luck.



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Response Number 14
Name: splinters
Date: January 8, 2007 at 12:11:12 Pacific
Reply:

thanks Doctor, at the moment my PSU is fine but I have yet to put the Geforce 7900GT in yet and I wanted the right PSU in before I installed it. If only I could get the real deal on the Liteon PSU I could decide if the TT is really any better.

Bottom Line; I am not really a power user-odd game of Quake 4 or Half Life 2. Most of my time doing contract 3D rendering work using trueSpace 7 (I designed the icons and the UI for that program) and Photoshop CS2 usually at the same time. I won a nice card and want to use it but want a nice stable AMD dual core 2gb Ram system because I use it for my work.
I got no help from Acer-you guys have been great.


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