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More tha 64mb

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Name: kkk
Date: November 17, 2003 at 13:58:50 Pacific
OS: win98
CPU/Ram: 16
Comment:

I have an old computer with a 430vx chipset. I know the limit to memory is 64 cacable and system is 128. I suppose this means that up to 128mb is possible to put in the board but at a great slow down rather than 64mb. even though more than 64mb is slower, would it still work for programs that need 128mb? Would an amd k6-iii help speed up the at least 64mb cached memory.



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Response Number 1
Name: jim
Date: November 17, 2003 at 14:27:16 Pacific
Reply:

Cache memory and system memory are not tied together in any way. Your motherboard is limited to 64mb of cache because their is no physical place to add more. Programs are not dependent on cache memory, they could run with zero cache. System memory is the limiting factor.

What is cache memory


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Response Number 2
Name: C_Legend
Date: November 17, 2003 at 15:17:38 Pacific
Reply:

Here is some good info on Intel's chipsets and memory/cacheability.

I have experienced the same dilemma, going with 64 Meg or 128 with first 64 uncached. However, with having the first 64 uncached, there was such a hit in performance, I found myself going back to 64 Meg. If I were you, I would only use more than 64 Meg if the application simply won't run (including data) or the system thrashes (too much swapping) without the extra memory.

I'm a little confused as to what you are asking, but if you can put a K6-3 on this motherboard, then you need not worry about the cacheability, as the K6-3 has on-chip L2 cache, and therefore all 128 meg will be cached. The same can't be said for the K6-2, but CAN be said, I believe, for the K6-2+.

Good luck.


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Response Number 3
Name: jam
Date: November 17, 2003 at 17:17:15 Pacific
Reply:

Since the K6-3 has the on-chip L2 cache, the motherboard's L2 cache becomes L3, so as C_Legend wrote, you wouldn't have to worry about the 64mb cache issue. If you don't already have a K6-3 CPU though, you'll find that they're VERY expensive & hardly worth it, especially on an old board like that...

I don't know if you can run a K6-3 on a VX board anyway...I doubt it will support the voltage. Can you set the CPU voltage as low as 2.2v? Also, you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the 100FSB that the K6-3 was designed for. Using the "2x as 6x" multiplier trick, the best you could probably do is either 400 (6 x 66)...possibly 450 if you have the 75FSB option. I know 450 is probably the most common of the K6-3 "flavors", but it seems to me, it's power would be wasted on that setup...


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Response Number 4
Name: Arcosanti
Date: November 17, 2003 at 20:44:35 Pacific
Reply:

Well here's a real puzzle for you concerning more memory beyond 64 MB. I have an Amptron 7900 i430vx mobo and have recently put in 80 MB of ram in. The ram are edo simm modules. I have windows 95B OSR2 which I understand is some type of an oem version of the second release of win95. Anyway I too experienced a small slowdown of win95 with the 80 MB of memory. So I decided to take the extra 16 MB of ram and use it for a ramdisk for internet explorer to use as a place for the temporary internet folder. Well the weird part is that win95 is now back to running at normal speed again since it is only seeing 64 MB of ram available to it. And Internet Explorer is now performing slightly faster running off the 16 MB ramdisk. If you ask me, I'd say so much for the cache theory concerning going beyond 64 MB on these old pc's.


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Response Number 5
Name: huh?
Date: November 17, 2003 at 20:56:44 Pacific
Reply:

"If you ask me, I'd say so much for the cache theory concerning going beyond 64 MB on these old pc's"

I'm confused by this statement - didn't you just confirm the cache theory?


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Response Number 6
Name: C_Legend
Date: November 17, 2003 at 22:24:39 Pacific
Reply:

Yes, Arcosanti. Your browser is going to be faster if you use a ramdisk for cache rather than the hard disk. And, in your case, 16 meg of uncached space is not going to be as big of a hit to performance as the first 64 meg would be in a 128 meg system, as most of your used memory is still cached in the 80 meg scenario, whereas AT LEAST half of the physical memory (in use) is uncached in the situation with 128 meg.

What I would like to know is what portion of memory your ramdisk is. Arcosanti, if it's the uncached portion, then it makes sense that your system would not be getting a performance hit, as you'd be using the cached memory for the operating system and applications and using the uncached portion in place of hard disk access, which is going to be slower, whether the memory is cached or uncached. You may have just been lucky and found the sweet spot for getting the most of your memory and cache.


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Response Number 7
Name: SkipCox
Date: November 18, 2003 at 01:00:41 Pacific
Reply:

Arcosanti,

All the why is posted above and is correct.

Here's another one:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/cache/char_Cacheability.htm

Even a quick read explains the why due to 8 bit tag ram on older motherboards, the value of on chip L2 cache and the performance issues that can be encountered. Gotta remember this is not theory...it's a fact of life on these old intel boards and never really became an issue until folks started to upgrade older machines when memory became dirt cheap.

As C_Legend points out; if you're constantly using the swapfile, add memory as anything is faster than the harddrive. If typical office work is the order of the day, then 64Mb will make you the happiest.


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Response Number 8
Name: kkk
Date: November 18, 2003 at 13:03:14 Pacific
Reply:

I can get an old second hand k6-3 450mhz of someone I know who can give it to me for cheap. If I get a voltage regulator such as a powerleap and a mr. bios upgrade I'll be able to use the chip. I know where to get 2x64mb chips but I think only 32mb chips work? Does anyone know where to get them cheap, even second hand?


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Response Number 9
Name: C_Legend
Date: November 18, 2003 at 15:11:43 Pacific
Reply:

You might want to take a look here and here.

Good luck.


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Response Number 10
Name: kkk
Date: November 19, 2003 at 12:51:55 Pacific
Reply:

32M-EDO
32MB 72pin EDO DRAM SIMM 8Mx32 non-parity, tin, 5V, 60ns, 2K, 16C, 1.0"

32M-EDO4K
32MB 72pin EDO DRAM SIMM 8Mx32 non-parity, tin, 5V, 60ns, 4K, 4C, 1.0"
This is what I saw at oempcworld. Whats the difference between the 4k and 2k ones except for the price


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Response Number 11
Name: C_Legend
Date: November 19, 2003 at 18:17:25 Pacific
Reply:

There appears to be compatibility issues with older Pentium machines, as it states:

"4K refresh modules will only work in later model Pentium systems, Pentium 166Mhz or later is a good guide. Most common problem is when installed computer reads only half the memory, use/replace with item 32M-EDO or 32M to resolve this."

I guess I'd recommend going the safe route and get the 2k modules.


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Response Number 12
Name: Arcosanti
Date: November 20, 2003 at 19:41:51 Pacific
Reply:

Thanx for the info on the memory situation. I guess I have the ramdisk in the uncached part. As for the swap file I definately agree that anything is faster than a harddrive. I found a better solution for the swap file than a ramdisk. I am using a 128 MB cf card that is being ran off an IDE cf card reader. This is something that was originally develope for the TRS-80 Coco 3 computer as an IDE interface has been made for it. Since it is IDE it will run on any IDE computer. CF is not as fast as regular memory but still it is faster thasn the hard drive. I'll get a bigger cf card later though. If anyone is interested in the IDE cf card reader you can get info at www.cloud9tech.com. They are running at $20 per reader.


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