Hi all-
My in-laws got me some new equipment for Christmas, and I'm trying to figure out how to get the most out of the new and old parts. I use my computer mostly for web & software development, but I also do some light gaming and video editing. I also got Half life 2 for Christmas and would definitely like something that will work well with it.

Right now I have an athlon 1400+ processor in an ECS NTU-400A motherboard. I had to clock down the processor to 1GHz because I never solved this problem..

My new equipment is a Soyo KT600 DRAGON motherboard and a sempron 2600+ processor.

Now the questions:
1. Should I attempt to return the Sempron 2600+ and try to get an Athlon XP 2600+ for a few extra bucks? Is the hassle & $$$ worth the performance difference?

2. Assuming I follow your advice for #1, which motherboard will do me better? I understand the nforce2 chipset is about the best for socket a processors...But the Soyo board is newer. I'm not using SATA HDs, so that's not a super-important feature.

Other system info:
PNY GeForce4 Ti 4400
2xATA100 40GB HDs
Windows XP SP2

Thanks in Advance!
-SN

I believe the nForce2 chipsets are still ahead of the VIA 600. Personnaly I have vowed to never use another MBoard with a VIA chipset. Thats just me though. What are you going to use for memory? The best bang for the buck right now is either the 2500XP barton 333 or the 2500 mobile chip. With either of these processors you should be able to set the FSB at 200 using DDR3200 and run effectivly have a 3200XP. If you do this you will need good cooling, although the mobile chip runs cooler. I have used the ALBATRON "KX18DS Pro or the ProII a few times and they are rock stable. Newegg.com is an excellent place to buy from if you are in the USA.

What's a 1400+? There is no such thing. Do you mean a 1400mhz Athlon Tbird?

Your ECS board (nForce2 Ultra) is probably just as good if not better than the Soyo Dragon (KT600). Both chipsets are closely matched performance-wise (nForce2 is slightly faster) but the KT600 usually has better features, such as SATA support.

Looking at the link about your past problems indicates either a problem with your RAM, incorrect RAM settings in the BIOS, incorrect CPU settings, or the fact that you have a piece of sh!t PSU. It doesn't get much worse than Hercules, so before doing anything, I suggest you get a quality power supply (350 watt or better with at least 16A on the +12v rail). This Thermaltake unit get's mentioned a lot around here:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-006&depa=0

As for this 1400+ CPU? If it is an Athlon Tbird, there's a 100mhz(200FSB) version & a 133mhz(266FSB) version. Attempting to run the 200FSB version at 266FSB without a multiplier change or voltage increase may have caused your errors. Why did you run it at 1.0Ghz @ 100mhz(200FSB)? Seems like an odd choice since your multiplier should have defaulted to either 10.5x or 14.0x...or maybe you meant 1.05Ghz? I've never tried to run a Tbird at 200mhz(400FSB), but to do so, you'd have had to lower the multiplier to 7.0x & possibly raise the CPU voltage. That might explain why memtest would stall when testing at 200mhz(DDR400)...you were over-overclocking the CPU.

As for the Sempron 2600+, it's nothing more than an Athlon XP 2200+ reclocked to 11 x 166(333FSB) rather than 13.5 x 133(266FSB). It may be either a Tbred or Thorton core. Actually, the Sempron may be the better choice for overclocking due to it's lower default multiplier. You may be able to get it to run at 2.2Ghz by raising the FSB to 200mhz(400) & adjusting the vcore.

Asus A7N8X-X
1800+ @8x210mhz
512mb PC3200
Ti4200/8X 128mb
WDC 60GB

Thanks jam and OtheHill for your responses. I should have prefaced my question with, "I'm a moron and I don't know what I'm talking about."

"What are you going to use for memory?"
Assuming the problem I'm having with memtest isn't actually my memory, I'll use my current 2x256 PC3200 modules.

"With either of these processors you should be able to set the FSB at 200 using DDR3200 and run effectivly have a 3200XP."
That sounds cool, but at this point I think I'll steer clear of overclocking altogether...I don't know anything about it and the performance increase isn't worth the risk of me doing something stupid and damaging my hardware.

"I have used the ALBATRON "KX18DS Pro or the ProII "
Yeah I think I'm pretty much stuck with one of these 2 Motherboards...My father-in-law already took off the UPC from the Soyo for a mail-in-rebate.

"What's a 1400+? There is no such thing. Do you mean a 1400mhz Athlon Tbird?"
Sorry for the confusion...All I know is that I have an Athlon that (supposedly) runs at 1400MHz. I couldn't find the numbers Skip asked for in the post linked above. I pulled the processor from a broken system (bad MB). That system had SDRAM, if that changes anything.

"either a problem with your RAM, incorrect RAM settings in the BIOS, incorrect CPU settings, or the fact that you have a piece of sh!t PSU."
Hmmm...didn't know my PSU was so bad. Assuming I don't want to overclock and that I just want to go with whatever the manufacturer recommends, what are the correct RAM and CPU settings I should have in my BIOS? When I get home I will post what settings I currently have.

"or maybe you meant 1.05Ghz?"
Yeah I think it is 1050MHz, now that you mention it. Again, Sorry for the confusion.

"That might explain why memtest would stall when testing at 200mhz(DDR400)...you were over-overclocking the CPU."
I assumed my memory would clock itself down to work with the slower CPU...Are you saying my memory is too fast for my CPU, or that I need to do something to slow my memory down?

"As for the Sempron 2600+, it's nothing more than an Athlon XP 2200+ reclocked to 11 x 166(333FSB) rather than 13.5 x 133(266FSB)."
So is the L2 Cache size essentially the only difference between the Sempron 2600+ and the Athlon XP 2600+?

I'll post back more info on my current fsb & memory timings when I get home. I guess technically that problem isn't really important since I'll be reconfiguring everything anyway, but I'd still like to know what I'm doing wrong for future reference...I'm just smart enough to break stuff.

Thanks!
-SN

Normal overclocking is running the busses out of specs. What I suggested will run all the busses in spec. The only thing you are doing is turning a 333FSB chip into a 400FSB chip. As far as the memory goes I didn't see any mention of memory anywhere, that is why I asked. As far as the Sempron chip goes, jam says the chip is a relabeled athlonXP. I say it is an AthlonXP with half the onboard cache. This series of chips has proven to be highly overclockable. You stated you don't want to OC. More onboard cache is desirable and worht the money IMO. Just curious, if you don't OC, why the DDR3200. That is overkill for your present setup.

"I assumed my memory would clock itself down to work with the slower CPU...Are you saying my memory is too fast for my CPU, or that I need to do something to slow my memory down?"

- Your RAM will clock itself down to match the CPU's FSB - IF you have it setup to do so. Otherwise, the CPU's FSB will run at one speed, & the RAM will run at another. That in itself probably wouldn't cause any problems, but for best performance, it's always best to have them both run at the same speed. So if your CPU is at 133mhz(266FSB), your RAM should run at 133mhz(DDR266) as well, even if it is PC3200 (DDR400).

"So is the L2 Cache size essentially the only difference between the Sempron 2600+ and the Athlon XP 2600+?"

Basically, yes, if the 2600+ you're talking about is a Barton. But there's also two versions of the 2600+ Tbred - one runs at 266FSB, the other at 333FSB.

Asus A7N8X-X
1800+ @8x210mhz
512mb PC3200
Ti4200/8X 128mb
WDC 60GB

On a nforce2 motherboard the sempron 2600+ ran neck and neck with a mobile XP2600+ at default and overclocked speeds:

http://www.hwspirit.com/reviews.php?read=7

Skip

"What I suggested will run all the busses in spec. The only thing you are doing is turning a 333FSB chip into a 400FSB chip"
I guess I don't understand the difference between that and overclocking...If I can turn my 333 FSB chip into a 400 FSB chip and stay within official, manufacturer approved specs, then why isn't that the default behavior?

"As far as the memory goes I didn't see any mention of memory anywhere, that is why I asked."
Sorry about that...forgot to include it.

"Just curious, if you don't OC, why the DDR3200. That is overkill for your present setup."
Because when I got it, it was about the same price as the corresponding PC2700, and I figured I might as well get the faster RAM so I wouldn't have to upgrade when the time came. I think you've convinced me to step up the FSB to 400, so maybe it will come in handy now. Can I do that with the Sempron too?

Now that I look at some store websites, I'm wondering if retail stores even sell Athlon XP chips in the range I'm looking for...Fry's and PCClub don't seem to have any.

Thanks,
-SN

When AMD is manufacturing the processors if the yields are running good then they will have more high end chips than they can see as high end. They will then setup those chips at lower speeds. There is theorically no difference in that 333 chip and the 400 chip, other than the 400 was tested at 400. There is a chance you could get a chip that won't run at 400 but most do. When overclocking by raising the FSB in small increments you are also raising the AGP bus and the PCI bus. Some MBs will have mechanisms to lock the other busses but normally that isn't the case if you raise the FSB from 166 to 200 all that happens is the divisors for the other busses change. They still run at 33.33 and 66.66. When you raise the FSB from 166 to 170 you have also raised the frequency of the AGP to 68 and the PCI to 34. This can stress components and screw up timings. Also can corrupt data on the harddrive. The only real impact Raising the FSB will have is to make the processor use more electricity and thereby generate more heat. That is why faster processors require better cooling. To answer the question on the Sempron, I don't know. See with Athlon XP processor chips the multiplier is locked and you can't change it in the BIOS settings. You think you can, but it doesn't change. But a 2500 XP 333FSB and a 3200XP 400FSB both have the same 11 multiplier. So by changing to 200 from 166 you have effectively made your 2500 into a 3200. In the cas of the mobile chip the default FSB is 133 but the multiplier isn't locked like it is on the XPs.

newegg has a 2500+ and a 45w mobile 2500+ and both are under 90 bucks.

If you have a local PCClub, you might give them a call to see if they have some of the discontinued processors on the shelf.

Skip

The socket A Sempron is nothing more than a relabeled XP that runs at 166mhz FSB. The L2 cache is unchanged - it's 256k on the Tbred & Thorton based Semprons, & 512k on the Barton based Sempron.

If you check the listings at newegg, the core & L2 cache is stated in the product description:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-104-205&depa=0

This gives you some hints as to which Sempron is which XP:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20040721013003.html

Tom's Hardware refers to them as "recycled cores":

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040728/sempron-01.html

Asus A7N8X-X
1800+ @8x210mhz
512mb PC3200
Ti4200/8X 128mb
WDC 60GB

" it's 256k on the Tbred & Thorton based Semprons, & 512k on the Barton based Sempron."
That's exactly the information I wanted...Thanks! I talked fry's into giving me store credit for the 2600+ and got a barton sempron 3000+ for $40 more (total of $140).

"That in itself probably wouldn't cause any problems, but for best performance, it's always best to have them both run at the same speed."
For kicks and giggles, I tried to get my old system working by setting both the FSB and the Memory to 133. Same problem...Windows wouldn't start, and memtest fails test #5. Replacing the MB and the Chip worked great, so I'm guessing it wasn't the PSU or RAM.

"There is theorically no difference in that 333 chip and the 400 chip, other than the 400 was tested at 400."
That makes sense...So can I put my sempron 3000+ at 400 fsb and take advantage of my pc3200?

"If you have a local PCClub, you might give them a call to see if they have some of the discontinued processors on the shelf."
I do have a couple local PCClubs...No luck though. Thanks for the link to the Sempron vs. Mobile Barton comparison...It makes me feel better that I'm not using a processor designed for internet and e-mail only :-)

A couple more questions, then I'll get out of your hair:
1. Memtest worked fine, but showed my memory speed around 750MB/s (can't remember for sure but it was somewhere in the 700-800 range). Is this right? It seems like it should be around 2.7GB/s.

2. I'm a reasonably technical person, but all this stuff about multipliers, clock speeds, vcores, etc. is over my head. Can you recommend any sites where I can start learning what all that means and what appropriate configurations are?

-SN

So I'm at fry's yesterday, talking to the salesguy. I asked him if he had any semprons with the barton core. He explained to me that the sempron's don't come with the barton core. Of course, I had seen jam's link and knew that this was totally false. I didn't press the issue, but asked if any of the semprons had 512KB of L2 cache. He explained to me that all Sempron processors come with only 256KB of L2 Cache.

He then sold me the afore mentioned Sempron 3000+...Complete with Barton core and 512KB L2 cache.

I have no problem with people not knowing the answers...The world of computers is too broad for anybody to know everything. But I HATE IT when, if faced with a question that could potentially reveal their ignorance, they just MAKE CRAP UP!!! I mean, what voice speaks into their strange little ears and says "If you don't know, just give a superior look and make it up as you go along."

We should adopt the ancient asian custom and chop off the tongues of lying salespeople...

-SN

If you are a sales person, it is only rudimentary to know what you are offering for sale to the public, but most will only tell you what they want you to believe not what you need to know.

If you know your stuff before talking to them you have the potential edge, a layman however might be at a disadvantage.

-- Have a Happy New Year --