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I’ve got an old P1-200 running Win98 sitting around that I wanted to upgrade with a stronger/larger hard-drive, so I went out and bought and 80G drive. However, the old machine can not detect the large drive and doesn’t get past the bios part of the startup sequence. (At least, I’m pretty sure that’s the bios part.)
I’ve heard that if I partition the drive into smaller pieces then the bios will be able to detect the drive and all will be well. Unfortunately, I’m not exactly sure how to do that, although I do have ‘some’ experience running a partition program called: Gnome Partition Editor.
I’ve been told that if I halve the drive into two partitions of about 40G each then it will run.
My queries in summary are as follows:
1) Can the P1 running Win98SE run the larger hard-drive after it’s been partitioned?
2) How do I partition it, preferably using Gnome Partition Editor.
3) Is there anything else I should know?Gnome Partition Editor:
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/
Totally wrong, the hard drive manufacturer should have for download "Drive Overlay Software" , therefore the drive is recognised at the maximum size the BIOS can handle, but the Overlay Software will create an environment where the full size of the hard drive can be seen.
There is no other way of undertaking this whatever anyone tells you........
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You didn't say whether the HD was int/ext SATA whatever.
Assuming it's an int IDE, that BIOS won't run it. You need an IDE controller card with it's own BIOS.
Also, since 98 fdisk is limited to about 63GB, you need the later [winMe] fdisk.
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=...
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If at first you don't succeed, you're about average.M2
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If you decide to get a PCI card (which I think is the best plan), get one that is 48 bit LBA compatible. It will allow you to use drives larger than 127gb.
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I have an old P1 system which currently has a 15 gig ide hard drive and an 8 gig ide hard drive. I bought a 40 gig ide ASA 133 hard drive. The bios would not see it. I was told that my motherboard was too old for the ASA 133 interface. Now I have a useless 40 gig hard drive sitting around.
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What is the make and model of the computer?
Filling in some details:
There are bugs in older bios versions that limit the size of hard drive the bios can recognize. Depending on how old the bios is, the limit can be 8.4gb, 32gb, or 64gb - none of these older mboards can recognize a hard drive larger than 128gb (137gb manufacturer's size) on their own because of limitations of the chipset. If the hard drive is larger than the bios can recognize, the boot may freeze when the hard drive is connected, or it may recognize the drive but as smaller than it actually is.
Sometimes there are manufacturer's bios updates available that are new enough that they have some or all of the bugs removed.
A few older mboards have patched bioses available that were patched by other than the manufacturer to remove the bugs.
Hard drive manufacturers have free drive preparation utilities available, and included in that is what is generically called a dynamic overlay program that you can use if your bios can't recognize the size of hard drive you want to use - it intervenes between the bios and the operating system so that the operating system can see the full size of the drive, and it uses a size of drive in the bios that the bios can recognize. However, I don't recommend you use that unless you have no choice - you have to be very alert as to how you use bootable disks especially operating system ones, or you can lose access to the drive overlay and your operating system.
If you have a spare PCI slot, recent PCI hard drive controller cards are a much better solution and are cheap these days, as little as $30 or less, and have 48 bit LBA support and will recognize any size of hard drive, but in order to boot from a hard drive connected to the card, you must be able to select SCSI in the boot order in the bios Setup and be able to place it first in the boot order - if you can't do that, you can't boot the operating system, e.g. Windows, from that drive.
Fdisk in Win 98, 98SE cannot recognize a hard drive larger than ~64 gig without an update, if it hasn't been installed. What Fdisk will see in those cases is e.g. ~80 - 64 = ~16 gig (or ~120 - 64 = ~56 gig). If your drive is larger than ~64 gig, this is what you need. Get the update here:
http://download.microsoft.com/downl...
If you use a Startup disk to Fdisk the hard drive, you must copy the updated Fdisk from Windows to the floppy. If you boot/install Windows from the Win 98/98SE CD, you cannot Fdisk/Format a hard drive larger than 64 gig - use the Startup disk with the updated Fdisk on it instead.The update is supposed to be installed on a working Win 98 or 98SE computer. If you don't have that, you can get the updated Fdisk.exe on the web. In it's Properties it's size is 64,460 bytes, and it's date is 5/18/00 (depending on where you get it from the date may be something else - the right one is 64,460 bytes).
One thing you could try is most IDE hard drives have pins that you can install a jumper on that will limit the size of the drive the bios sees to what it can handle - see the label on the drive, or the jumper information for the hard drive model on the manufacturer's web site. If that works it will be seen as a smaller drive, but you'll at least be able to use it.
Beachcoffee:
You can use any of the above methods, if applicable, to support recognizing the 40gb drive's size, but the mboard chipset cannot run the drive at it's max udma133 burst speed (133mb/sec). It's just that - a burst speed - it cannot run that fast for more than a short time in any case. The max burst speed the 40gb drive will run on your mboard depends on the chipset - it may be no more than 16mb/sec.The same applies if you use a hard drive controller card, at least according to my experience with using them on several older mboards - the card cannot run a drive any faster than the mboard chipset's max capabilities.
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Sorry I didn't mention the type of drive I was trying to install before. It's an 80G Western Digital, Model: WD800JB - 00JJC0.
I've already got an old 6G or 8G (Not sure...) HD in there.
Using a PCI IDE hard drive controller card sounds like the best solution. I think I have an old Fax 56K-modem in one of my P1's PCI slots that I can remove. If I do use the PCI card, can I still slave the 80G to the 8G, or the reverse? Or does this method only support single HDs?
I'll check to see if my P1's BIOS allows SCSI, I think I saw it in there last time I adjusted the settings.
Do I still need to have a HD connected to the motherboard the regular way to boot one off the PCI IDE hard drive controller card? And if not, are they mutually exclusive? Could I have one drive off the PCI controller card and one hooked up normally?
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"Sorry I didn't mention the type of drive I was trying to install before. It's an 80G Western Digital, Model: WD800JB - 00JJC0."
You did mention it - in the specs in your first post.
The first part is the model number the second part is the code for warranty purposes (3 years).
I have the same model.
Where to install the jumpers, or not install them, is on the label.
Additionally I found info that you can store a jumper or jumpers on 5-3 or 6-4 (the drive may have come that way - master on a data cable by itself doesn't need a jumper to be installed).Normally you need an 80 wire data cable for this drive, but it may not matter whether it is a 40 or 80 wire one on this old mboard if it can't run faster than UDMA 33 (33 mb/sec). I have found 80 wire UDMA 66 data cables usually don't have a blocked pin hole on the blue connector to the mboard, which is useful if the mboard IDE headers do not have one pin missing like newer mboards do - UDMA 100 or 133 80 wire cables often have a blocked pin hole in that pin position - if it is molded blocked and does not have a plug you can remove, if the mboard IDE headers do not have one pin missing, you have to use a very tiny drill bit to drill out that blocked pin position to be able to get the connector onto the IDE header (you could also break off the pin on the IDE header since there's nothing connected to it, but I DO NOT recommend you do that).
If you have another drive and you're not concerned about whether you can boot from a drive connected to a card, when Windows 98 or 98SE is installed on the smaller drive the card will be recognized while booting after it is installed, and you provide drivers for it from the CD or floppy that comes with the card, and you can use it as a storage drive no problem.
If you can install Windows on the 80 gig and boot from it, you will have the advantage of the relatively large cache on the drive, which will make Windows load faster and work faster when smaller files are involved, despite this mboard not supported the UDMA 133 burst speed it is capable of."If I do use the PCI card, can I still slave the 80G to the 8G, or the reverse? Or does this method only support single HDs?"
Standard rules apply for jumpering the drives and connecting them to data cables.
See the hard drive manufacturer's web site, or possibly your mboard manual if you have that, if you're not sure how to do that. You may need to change the jumper on a drive if another drive on the same data cable was removed.
(Personally, I never use cable select jumpering. If you use that, all drives on the same data cable must use that, master is the drive connected to the end connector opposite the blue one to the mboard on a 3 connector cable, and slave is the drive connected to the middle connector. I find you often can't physically manipulate and connect the data cable to two drives correctly (usually the striped side next to the power connector) if you use cable select, unless you physically take the drives out and switch their positions, or flip one of them. It doesn't matter which connector you connect to if you use master/slave jumpering, and you seldom have to physically move a drive, or flip it's position.).....
Windows on a smaller drive ....
If you can't boot from the 80gb drive....
Win 98 or 98SE would be fine on either the 6 or 8gb drive if installed on them, and you would have more than 4 or 6gb of space remaining after installing the operating system and all the Win 98 or 98SE updates (such as the updated Fdisk).
Win 98 or 98SE will see the size of the 80gb drive fine once it it has been partitioned and formatted to it's proper size. If you would rather not use the Startup Disk method toinstall Windows (with the updated Fdisk installed on the floppy - see response 5) , you can use the free hard drive manufacturer's drive preparation utilities to partition and format the drve instead, if the 80gb is connected to the PCI card.Install all the drivers for the mboard after Setup is finished, especially the main chipset drivers. If you don't have the mboard CD and you're not sure where you would get those, we need the make and model of the mboard, or the make and model of the brand name system.
By the way, your computer having a 200mhz cpu on it doesn't necessarily mean it's a really old mboard - e.g. you could have a not as old super socket 7 mboard that someone has installed an ancient cpu in. If you actually can select SCSI in the bios boot order, it's probably a not so old mboard.When you install programs, they default to installing on C:, but you can often change the location and choose to install them on other than the C drive - they will still install some on C:, but the bulk of the program can be installed on the 80gb drive.
"Do I still need to have a HD connected to the motherboard the regular way to boot one off the PCI IDE hard drive controller card?"
If you can select SCSI in the boot order and place it first, and Windows is installed on the 80gb drive on the card and you can boot from it, you don't need any other hard drive on the computer.
If you can't do that, Windows must be on a hard drive connected to the regular IDE headers, and the 80 gb drive is on the card and can only be used for data storage."And if not, are they mutually exclusive?"
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
"Could I have one drive off the PCI controller card and one hooked up normally?"
Yes, whether you boot from the 80gb drive or not. It is common to leave the CD drive(s)connected to the mboard IDE, and connect one or more hard drives to the PCI card, but you may need to change the jumper on the CD drive if another drive on the same cable was removed.
Most PCI controller cards cards support at least 4 drives on two headers , and come with one 80 wire three connector UDMA 100 or 133 data cable. This means you can have up to at least 8 hard and cd drives connected.
Labelling varies - you need a EIDE or ATA 133 or UDMA 133 or PATA 133 card, not a SATA card.NOTE - all onboard IDE supports optical drives (e.g. CD/DVD drives) and the ATAPI standard they require. Some PCI hard drive controllers (e.g. some Promise ones) DO NOT support ATAPI, and optical drives won't work when connected to them. If you get a card, if you want to be able to connect an optical drive to it, it's chipset must support ATAPI.
E.g. cards with Silicon Image chipsets (SIxxxx) do - e.g. made by ST Lab or SABA.
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"Jumper settings for WD 2.5 inch and 3.5 inch EIDE drives":
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc..."How do I configure a WD EIDE drive using the Alternate Jumper Settings?":
(jumpers force the drive to be recognized as the max size the bios supports)
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc...
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