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Large HDD Difficulties

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Name: Chebwa
Date: March 29, 2006 at 06:00:08 Pacific
OS: Windows XP Home
CPU/Ram: Athlon 64 3200+ / 1GB
Product: Home Brewed
Comment:

Hey all. A friend and I are working on building a PC. I think we've been relatively successful, but we've run into one problem. First, I should show you the two components giving us the headaches.

The Motherboard

The Hard Drive

The problem is sort of strange. BIOS detects the HDD. It even reports the proper size and stats. I can boot to the Windows XP setup and format the drive. Windows XP even copies the setup files to the hard drive.

But when we reboot and allow the computer to boot to the hard drive to continue setup, it INSTANTLY gives us a "hard drive boot error press ctrl + alt + del to reboot" or something along those lines.

I don't understand how the hard drive is seen, formatted, and copied to, but simply WILL NOT boot. I even ran CHKDSK on it. It seems fine.

I've changed just about every BIOS setting there is in regards to the hard drive.

Any ideas?



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Response Number 1
Name: taffyboy
Date: March 29, 2006 at 07:16:10 Pacific
Reply:

OK answer the following

What MOBO is it?
What BIOS Version is it?
Does your current Bios Support 64Bit?
Have you disabled the 64bit?


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Response Number 2
Name: Chebwa
Date: March 29, 2006 at 07:29:37 Pacific
Reply:

I linked the motherboard in the post above. Click it and it should answer most of your questions I think. I am fairly certain it does not support 64-bit. I saw that nowhere in the settings, and I was pretty thorough.


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Response Number 3
Name: Michael J (by mjdamato)
Date: March 29, 2006 at 07:44:50 Pacific
Reply:

What version of XP are you installing? XP Pre SP1 does not support drives over 137GB. You can either create a partition less than that, install and then partition the remaining space OR slipstream SP1 or SP2 into your install disc.

Michael J


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Response Number 4
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: March 29, 2006 at 07:50:06 Pacific
Reply:

Your bios Setup should be set to detect the hard drive by the Auto method, using the Auto or LBA method.

Your hard drive is 250gb manufacturer's size. Your mboard obviously sees the size of the hard drive properly, but XP may not.
XP must be at least SP1 in order to see all of and properly support a hard drive larger than 128gb (in Windows; 137gb manufacturer's size).
If you are trying to use the original XP, what may be happening it is partitioning and formatting, but not to the full max partition size (if you are partitioning one partition)- it is seeing about 128gb. When you reboot after the initial loading of Windows, the mboard bios does not find the boot sector where it expects it to be, because XP has put it in a different place - that for an about 128gb drive (in Windows).

The easiest fix is to use XP that has at least SP1 on it - XP with SP2 already on it is commonly available new these days. But that costs money if you don't already have it, and it is not wise to use someone else's original XP SP2 CD (and a copy of one cannot be Activated, etc., etc.)

This is speculation on my part:
If you have the original XP, I think you can get around this problem by (temporarily) installing XP on another hard drive that is 128gb or smaller (in Windows; 137gb manufacturer's size), updating that XP installation to at least SP1, attaching the 250gb drive as a slave on the same IDE data cable, or as slave or master on the other IDE data cable, partition and format the 250gb drive in XP, copying the whole Windows installation to the 250gb drive using the 250gb hard drive manufacturer's free drive preparation utility (available on it's web site), removing the smaller drive and connecting the 250gb as master, then running XP Setup from the CD, choosing the first opportunity to Repair , then using the Recovery Console to execute fixboot so that the 250gb drive will boot properly.
If you want to know more about how to use the first XP Setup Repair, and Recovery Console, I can supply more detail.


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Response Number 5
Name: Chebwa
Date: March 29, 2006 at 08:09:12 Pacific
Reply:

Hey guys. The CD I am using is XP Home SP1. During the partitioning it sees the full 250GB and formats it properly.

So, it's not the Windows XP CD... :-\


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Response Number 6
Name: Chebwa
Date: March 29, 2006 at 08:12:33 Pacific
Reply:

Oh, and I have it set to "Auto" in the BIOS as well. It's really odd. I'm thinking it's not an XP issue since the setup seems to go so well.

I am pretty sure it's a problem with the BIOS. But I have changed sooo many settings. Maybe we should buy a smaller HDD and use that as the XP drive, slaving the 250GB permanently?


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Response Number 7
Name: angstfeardoubt
Date: March 29, 2006 at 08:16:57 Pacific
Reply:

try creating multiple partitions and load xp into one of those partitions and see if it works.

i wish i were what i wished i were before i wished i were what i am now...


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Response Number 8
Name: srloren
Date: March 29, 2006 at 09:30:49 Pacific
Reply:

Is your Bios set to default values? I would set it to default if you have already made numerous changes without recording what you changed.


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Response Number 9
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: March 29, 2006 at 09:51:26 Pacific
Reply:

"I linked the motherboard in the post above. Click it and it should answer most of your questions I think. I am fairly certain it does not support 64-bit. I saw that nowhere in the settings, and I was pretty thorough.'

Wrong. Your mboard supports 48bit LBA (not 64) - all newer mboards do. The fact that the bios can see the the full size of the drive confirms that.

"Hey guys. The CD I am using is XP Home SP1. During the partitioning it sees the full 250GB and formats it properly."

I have never seen an XP CD that has SP1 on it - I have seen only the original ones with no SP, or newer ones with SP2 - I would have to take your word for that.

"I am pretty sure it's a problem with the BIOS. But I have changed sooo many settings"

It's very very unlikely that anything in the bios could cause your problem. Since you probably have lost track of what you changed, go should go into the bios Setup and load Defaults to set it as it was in the first place.
Your bios Setup should default to be set to detect the hard drive by the Auto method, using the Auto or LBA method.

CHKDSK cannot detect everything that can be wrong with a hard drive.

Download a free diagnostics utility from the maker of the hard drive's web site, execute the download to make the bootable floppy disk (or floppies), boot with the floppy, and run the diagnostics on the hard drive.

If something wrong is found, other than logical errors in your operating system files, you have a defective hard drive.
If there are logical errors in your operating system files, run Setup from the CD again, wiping out the existing installation.

If nothing wrong is found....

Do you have the hard drive jumpered as master (or jumpered as CS and on the end connector of the data cable) and connected to the data cable on the primary IDE header on the mboard?
Do you have only the 250gb hard drive installed, other than any cd drives?
Did you get any read errors from the CD drive you are using while installing XP, even if it read the file correctly when you re-tried? Did you skip installing any files during Setup?


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Response Number 10
Name: TopFarmer
Date: March 29, 2006 at 13:07:18 Pacific
Reply:

Do you have the partition set active ?
With XP I do not know how to find out or how to set it active, others can post the how to.


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Response Number 11
Name: Chebwa
Date: March 29, 2006 at 14:23:07 Pacific
Reply:

Hey Tubesandwires...

"Wrong. Your mboard supports 48bit LBA (not 64) - all newer mboards do."

Wrong? I said I was pretty sure it *does not* support 64-bit.

"I have never seen an XP CD that has SP1 on it..."

It is SP1. It says it on the disc. Windows XP Home SP1a.

"...go into the bios Setup and load Defaults..."

I did that between every major change I made. I also tried changing everything seemingly relevant in one shot. No go...

"Do you have the hard drive jumpered as master..."

Yeah, that seems to be fine, it is detected as the master as well (0).

Only the 250GB is installed. No errors from the CD (new from the package) and I've copied the files more than once (and formatted). Everything appears to go smoothly until the boot order gets to the HDD. Then it just INSTANTLY says there is a problem.

It really doesn't even *try* to boot from it. It just dies right away.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.


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Response Number 12
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: March 29, 2006 at 15:29:48 Pacific
Reply:

I took a look at your manual.

In your bios Setup....

Advanced Bios Features

Hard Disk Priority - should list the 250gb drive

There are many ways you can do this - this should work for any situation:
First Boot Device - Floppy
Second Boot Device - CDRom
Third Boot Device - Hard Drive

(On many computers if Floppy is after CDRom, and there is no bootable CD in the CD drive, a bootable floppy will not be recognized).

Delay IDE Initial - some computers boot so fast the hard drive doesn't have time to be recognized as bootable.
Set this to something other than zero - shouldn't need more than 5 seconds - try 5 - if that works you can try decreasing it.
My brother has a hard drive that requires this.
.............

"Wrong? I said I was pretty sure it *does not* support 64-bit."

- I should have explained taffyboy had the number wrong - it should have been 48bit.
- pretty sure it *does not* is very close to saying you thought it doesnt support it.

When you want to find out about a mboard, you don't just read a sellers ad - it probably doesn't have the complete info - you go to the mboard web site and look up your model.

"It is SP1. It says it on the disc. Windows XP Home SP1a."

Fine. All I said is I've never seen one.

""...go into the bios Setup and load Defaults...""

"I did that between every major change I made. I also tried changing everything seemingly relevant in one shot. No go"

Okay. You didn't mention that previously.

So you were using a new CD drive, and your CD is an original by the sounds of it (copies can give you problems) so both of those should be fine.


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Response Number 13
Name: Chebwa
Date: March 29, 2006 at 16:36:26 Pacific
Reply:

SO this is weird... I can't set the HDD delay to any more than 1. I hit 5, it says 1. I hit 9, it says 1. It's insane.

...

I am ready to give up. Hah.


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Response Number 14
Name: ozyoiy
Date: March 29, 2006 at 17:46:28 Pacific
Reply:

Hi,
Did you set the Jumpers corectly?
Oz

"Bite off more than you can chew, And chew like hell!"
Peter Brock.


Yahoo Id. ozyoiy


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Response Number 15
Name: TopFarmer
Date: March 29, 2006 at 18:37:05 Pacific
Reply:

Normal to set or change values in the bios, you use the arrow or page up/down keys not the number keys. If you read the display it normal tells you.


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Response Number 16
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: March 29, 2006 at 22:19:01 Pacific
Reply:

I'm just about out of ideas.
If these are of no help, test the hard drive with the diagnostic utility.

Two things to try:

(Repair using the Recovery Console)

Boot the XP CD.
Let it load the initial bunch of the Setup files.
At the end of that, you will be asked if you want to Repair Windows - signify yes, I believe by pressing the R key.
You will go to a Dos like screen - that is the Recovery Console.
A line will ask for a password.
You have no password - just press enter.

At the prompt, type: fixboot (press Enter)
At the prompt, type: fixmbr (press Enter)
At the prompt, type: exit (press Enter)
You computer should then reboot automatically.
(If it does not, press all 3 of the Alt-Ctrl-Del keys at the same time, let go, choose Shut Down from the menu that appears.)

Do not boot the XP CD when it reboots - let it try to boot normally.
If that fixes the boot, Setup should continue from that point.

If that doesn't work, try this.

Use a 40 wire data cable instead of an 80 wire one with the hard drive. The mboard should automatically slow down the hard drive to UDMA33 speed, and that may allow it to boot properly and for you to continue with Windows Setup.
If that works, after Setup is finished, load the drivers for the mboard chipset from the mboard CD, then connect the drive to an 80 wire data cable again - it may boot okay after that.



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Response Number 17
Name: Chebwa
Date: April 3, 2006 at 10:42:55 Pacific
Reply:

This motherboard is such a piece of junk. I can't believe it.

Either way, I tried just about EVERYTHING. The BIOS (even the latest version) is absolutely useless. I ended up actually installing XP onto a 6GB HDD and then slaving the 250GB onto that. It works now.

Regardless, I'm not sure if any of you have dealt with the motherboard I described above (check for a link), but I would have to say just avoid it.

I've had way more problems with it than any other mobo I have messed around with.

Then again, maybe I am really missing something (although I tried nearly ALL of your suggestions). But I think not.

Oh well, it works now though. Thanks so much for all of your help. I appreciate all of your time spent.

=)


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Response Number 18
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: April 3, 2006 at 11:34:47 Pacific
Reply:

Thanks for the last post, but....

"The BIOS (even the latest version) is absolutely useless...."

NEVER flash the bios unless you find specific information on the web site for your mboard model that doing so will cure a problem you are having!
You are taking a big risk when you flash your bios - if the flash fails, and/or the flash chip physically fails while flashing (this is COMMON - these cheap flash chips can only be flashed an unpredictable small number of times - it can even fail the FIRST time you try), you will have a mboard that will not boot.

After you flash the bios, the first time you boot you will get a "Cmos Checksum Error...." or similar message. You will either be prompted to enter the bios Setup or you will automatically go there.
(Do the following even if the above doesn't apply) Enter the bios Setup, and load Bios Defaults (of any kind) - save settings, reboot. You MUST do this (or Clear the CMOS by moving a jumper on the mboard) in order for the bios update to be fully accepted by the mboard.
Loading Defaults may work in situations where Clear Cmos does not help.
If you have AGP video, after you flash the bios make sure your AGP video is enabled in the bios, has been assigned an IRQ, and AGP video is initialized first - if those are set to PCI, you will have no video once Windows starts to load.
If you have a fairly recent model scanner or printer connected to a parallel (LPTx) port, you also need to make sure it is set to EPP, EPP/ECP, or ECP mode in the bios - usually EPP is fine - ECP mode also requires you use Add Hardware in Windows to install an ECP port if it is not already there in Device Manager.



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Response Number 19
Name: Chebwa
Date: April 3, 2006 at 14:07:27 Pacific
Reply:

Good God. Hah. I seriously had no idea that flashing the BIOS was such a massively risky procedure. I figured as long as I obtained the driver from a reliable site (the company's) I'd be safe.

I'll take note of that in the future.


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Response Number 20
Name: Tubesandwires
Date: April 3, 2006 at 14:53:53 Pacific
Reply:

No Hah! Serious!
Why else do you think it is they warn you at every mboard makers site not to flash your bios if you are not having problems?

Too many use flashing the bios as a troubleshooting thing to do. 99.9% of the time it will not help at all with their problem, and they are taking an un-necessary risk.

Why they don't use more reliable flash chips for the mboard bios is beyond me. It would only add a few bucks to the cost of a mboard.

You can search here or all over the web and you'll find zillions of messages such as "I flashed my bios and now my computer won't boot....".

More info? www.badflash.com


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