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Intermittent POST?

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Name: vedekandy
Date: June 18, 2005 at 16:05:38 Pacific
OS: Win XP SP2
CPU/Ram: Athlon XP2600,512Mb
Comment:

Yet another POST problem ... I've searched through the boards and found people with problems, but not intermittent ones like this!

My current system is built using an Asrock K7VT4A+ mobo, athlon XP 2600+ chip, a case fan (connected directly to the PSU), and a coolermaster fan (bloody huge thing, it is!). The system itself works perfectly fine - no speed issues, no overheating, and I've never tried to overclock it. The trick is GETTING it to work.

A few months ago, I noticed that maybe one time out of 50 that I applied power, it'd *sound* like it was powering up, other than the fact I hear no "beep" noise . The CPU fan is active, the front LED lights up, the hard drives spin, and the two DVD drives have power - and I can eject the trays, etc. I can even turn the Num Lock and Caps Lock on and off, for all the good it does - it simply stays at that point, the monitor in powersaving mode, and I had to unplug the power cable entirely and leave it for 5 minutes before starting it up again. Then it'd work fine.

I've never really given it much thought (well, perhaps the odd swear word); but now, it's becoming a lot more frequent. Today, I was using the system normally, and then when I turned it off to 5 minutes to pop out to the shops, it wouldn't start up. I tried for half an hour to get it to start, and it simply wouldn't. I gave in, unplugged it, and left it for an hour - came back, and it worked. And now, later that same day, the same thing's happened. This time, though, I've left it for over three hours, and tried to get it working for an hour solid ... to no avail.

Now, I'm no PC newbie - I built this system myself, and build and sell systems semi-regularly. But how the hell can something just decide it doesn't want to work, and other times it does? Is my PC a woman? *laughs*

I've checked that nothing's shorting out, and nothing seems to be. It doesn't seem to make any difference (that I can tell) if I unplug the IDE drives, etc, and the only wire connected to the mobo, other than the power switch, is the speaker. I also know it's not the CPU as I've upgraded to this 2600 from a 2000, thinking (mistakenly) that it might be part of the cause. I was thinking it might be heat related, as today's been a very hot day (for the UK, anyway) - but the case fan and CPU fan are working fine. I even tried slowing the CPU fan down (it has a variable control) to use less power at startup, and then turning it to a noisy full to ensure it wasn't temperature related.

Any suggestions would be welcomed?!

-Andy



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Response Number 1
Name: Bryco
Date: June 18, 2005 at 16:31:01 Pacific
Reply:

Reseat the RAM and video card if applicable. You may also want to pull out the mobo battery for 15 minutes.

The problem could also be motherboard capacitors. If you look on top of them they have cuts in them that make an "X" or "+" depending on your perspective. This cap should be flat. If it or any of them are raised upward (you can tell) then you have a bad capacitor.

See http://www.badcaps.com/ident/ for example images and more information. I just located that site using a Google search for the purpose of an example in this post.

I am not saying this is your problem but you requested "any suggestions".

Regards,
Bryan


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Response Number 2
Name: Rich Mentzel
Date: June 18, 2005 at 18:00:27 Pacific
Reply:

Replace the Power Supply!


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Response Number 3
Name: vedekandy
Date: June 20, 2005 at 03:37:52 Pacific
Reply:

Thanks for your suggestions, guys ....

At the moment, as luck would have it, it booted up fine the next morning - but I'm not happy to just forget about it again, as it's extremely annoying when it happens *laughs*

I'm at a friend's for a few days now, but as soon as I get back, first thing I'm going to do it try reseating the RAM and Vid Card as you suggested, and take a quick look at the motherboard. It's under 8 months old, but as that site you linked to shows, the capacitors thing can happen to anything of any age bracket.

I'm thinking it's more an electrical problem as I've tried almost everything I can think of regarding the system components - I've removed everything but the bare essentials, and it's made no difference. So that would lean towards the capacitors possibility, or as Rick mentioned, the PSU. The system runs fine when it's up and on the go, but only has this issue starting up in a "cold boot". I've got a spare PSU from a friend and I'm gonna give it a go upon my return.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, guys!


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Response Number 4
Name: Rich Mentzel
Date: June 20, 2005 at 04:48:47 Pacific
Reply:

Must be fate, I am assembling a similar ASRock board K7VM3 with a 2200 Sempron and I get lights cpu fan and hear the hard drives churning but no video. I have now ordered
matching ram from Crucial and will change out PSU while I wait for that to get here, but I am betting the mb is no good because it does all this without touching the power swith on the tower, which has no effect on it either way.
On off is by setting in or pulling out the power plug.

Rich M
www.kickenhardware.net


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Response Number 5
Name: Rich Mentzel
Date: June 20, 2005 at 18:19:59 Pacific
Reply:

Well this is really embarassing. After switching out PSU and reseating cpu again, I noticed one wire out of position on usb front port jumper. And of course now everything works and I am busily putting XP on.


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Response Number 6
Name: vedekandy
Date: June 21, 2005 at 00:50:10 Pacific
Reply:

*chuckles* Man, I hate it when that kind of thing happens!

Well, the case I have is a large one, but no front USB ports so sadly that's not the case with mine. Darn it *lol* But I've checked every wire and connector recently just in case!

Still not home yet, but when I am, I'm gonna use your suggestions to try and track down the problem. As if Windows XP wsan't enough to fight with, now we have to fight the systems too! :D


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Response Number 7
Name: vedekandy
Date: June 26, 2005 at 07:20:51 Pacific
Reply:

Home again now, and thought I'd post my results....

Capacitors: All of them seem fine, with no raising or bending.

RAM and graphics card: Reseated, along with all other PCI cards in the system. I also checked the connections on the IDE cables to be certain there's nothing shorting on there too. No joy.

So now I'm left with the only possibilities being the PSU, or possibly the board itself - and I'm more inclined to believe it's the board as I did get this as a replacement for an identical board that I was having issues with, although I can't remember what they were (it was a while ago). But just for ease, I'll try and borrow a PSU from a friend to see if that does the trick.

Thanks for the help so far :)


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Response Number 8
Name: Rich Mentzel
Date: June 26, 2005 at 08:19:18 Pacific
Reply:

OK well guess again...as much as I had it solved, a few days later I was getting intermittant booting problems where everything would turn on except the hard drive and now video postiing..if I removed the power plug ur reseated it, all would come back and then a few bios hangs etc...couldn't stan it any more so i replaced the cheap 350 watt power supply that came in the case with a used 365 Enermax hanging around in the shop, only this time permanently and it has not happened since...replace the PSU!!!

Rich M
www.kickenhardware.net


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Response Number 9
Name: vedekandy
Date: June 27, 2005 at 02:28:37 Pacific
Reply:

Spooky timing ....

I came to the same conclusion (PSU) after, in a final act of desperation, I unplugged ALL of the IDE devices from the PSU when booting. And guess what? It booted just fine. SO I thought "I know, I'll push my luck...", and added another IDE device back on - it still booted. I then proceeded to add all of the IDE devices back on (power off, of course), and it rebooted each time. So I'm leaning towards an iffy power supply, just like you - seems that when all devices are connected it can't pump out enough power to supply all of them, but if it's been disconnected from them and booted OK, perhaps it stores enough of a charge to "kick" the system up and running again when you reconnect everything. Or it could be that ASRock boards are more picky about the voltage they boot with?

I have another old PSU to try temporarily (unsure of the wattage, I forget) but I'll give it a go, and see if it's any improvement - I'll post back :) Glad you got yours working again though!


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Response Number 10
Name: vedekandy
Date: June 27, 2005 at 03:40:57 Pacific
Reply:

ARGH!

Ok, I have now replaced the PSU with a slightly better one - it offers more ampage on the +12v line, and seems to be better on almost every line. And it's still dead when I switch it on - well, power LED is on, drives spin up,and that's about it.

Whilst I had it open, though, I decided to try a bit more logic. I have two hard drives, a DVD-R drive, and a DVD-ROM drive. If I unplug the power supply to the DVD-R drive, it will boot fine. Every time. If, however, I unplug any of the other IDE devices - the hard drives, the DVD-ROM - instead, then it still refuses to boot. The only way it'll boot is if I take the DVD-R out of the loop. Do DVD-Rs draw more power than DVD-ROMs and Hard Disks? Or is it more likely that it's buggered, and needs replaced? Thinking about it, I've had this DVD-R drive with the last motherboard which also had problems ... hmmm ...

What do you think?


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Response Number 11
Name: Rich Mentzel
Date: June 27, 2005 at 05:27:27 Pacific
Reply:

I had that happen with an older Compaq one time where cdrw was crapped out, and the machine would not boot with it plugged in, no matter what I did.

Rich M
www.kickenhardware.net


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Response Number 12
Name: vedekandy
Date: June 29, 2005 at 05:00:51 Pacific
Reply:

Rich,

Well, it's definitely the same case here. I popped out, bought a nice shiny new 16x Philips DVD-RW, popped it in, and it's working fine - it boots as it should, every time. If I stick the same "suspect" DVD-R drive in another machine, however, it causes the same issues - so finally, we get to the bottom of it! You don't know how long this has been bugging me *laughs*

It's strange though - I never thought it'd be possible for a DVD-RW drive to hold up the boot process if I'd disconnected the IDE cables, but seems that I'm wrong! For the record, the faulty drive in question's an NEC-2510A, which other than this small problem has been a wonderful device.


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Response Number 13
Name: Rich Mentzel
Date: June 29, 2005 at 05:33:27 Pacific
Reply:

vedekandy,
Very Interesting and you tweaked my memory because the cdrw that refused to boot in any pc one day, was a Phillips, first one I had ever touched...good luck!!! And glad you found the problem.
I just had a btter one in a home service call where guy hired me to replace a modem. Went in he had box open. I closed it booted up and fired up the modem that worked perfectly. It seems his wife went to print something a day ago and the printer was offline so she reinstalled it. Well that cleared up the 797 error message "modem not found" so she fixed it and never knew it. I kept telling him on the phone a year old Dell could not really have a blown modem so he thinks his wife and I are both "sages" and is completely embarassed. Ok but what on earth did the off line printer have to do with blowing the modem? Possibly because the fax was listed as default printer and the software was not fully set up as they had never used it!

Rich M
www.kickenhardware.net


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Response Number 14
Name: vedekandy
Date: June 29, 2005 at 15:09:07 Pacific
Reply:

Heh ... it just goes to show, even when you've been dealing with computers for a long time .... things that make no sense still show up to challenge your logic. It's part of what makes computer life so ... interesting ;)


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Response Number 15
Name: Leunamme
Date: July 28, 2005 at 15:00:56 Pacific
Reply:

I had read this forum for a while cause I have the same problem.

I have the K7VM3 mobo with low density PC2700 512MB ram (I know it works because it is recognized and runs in my other PC and shows up as 512 PC2700). I have seated it and reseated that and the CPU (nothing is damaged ofcourse). I have even taken all non essential components and just sat it down on a plastic surface...(no case, drives, power buttons, USB stuff, PCI cards...nothing).
Barebones with only memory, PSU, monitor, keyboard, mouse.
I start it...fans spin everything seems straight...NO POST...I have sent it back to the company after days of research and seeing that I am not the only person with this problem. I also know that the monitor and PSU work because I took them from my main computer (a reliable Sony) and they work when I put them back.

So I returned the MOBO CPU combo and should be getting a new one soon...


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Response Number 16
Name: Leunamme
Date: July 29, 2005 at 08:39:57 Pacific
Reply:

I just got the mobo back and it still does not work. I don't know what is wrong. This whole thing is pissing me off.

Whatever you do don't purchase your stuff from less know groups like Compu-Terra. There service is difficult because they are'nt toll free and unlike the main companies (CompUSA etc.) if you have repeated problems, your shipping costs will pile up because they don't pay for return shipping.

I have only had terrible experiences with these people and will only purchase parts from local stores where I can actually see someone or atleast call someone.

Please help me if you know of any solutions to this problem of no postings with AsRock mobos.



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help me pls restart probl... hard drive problems



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