Name: ctorchia87 Date: August 22, 2007 at 17:08:48 Pacific Subject: Installed USB card and KABOOM OS: Windows XP SP2 CPU/Ram: Celeron 1.3 GHz / 640 MB Model/Manufacturer: Soyo
Comment:
I am not an expert.
Well now, now that we got that little bother aside; I installed a USB 2.0 PCI card in my computer this week. I plug in my memory card reader (into the USB 2.0 card). I boot my computer up, and Windows dectects that I have a VIA 1394 host controller (which is the right one, I should say), but then it freezes. This happens a repeated many times.
I turn the computer off, unplug the memory card reader (nothing is plugged in the USB card now). Then I turn on my computer and no signal comes to the monitor and no beep from the computer. I unplug the USB 2.0 card from the PCI slot and my computer works. I take the card back to where I bought it from and bring home a different one. Same thing happens when I install it.
But now when I take it out, my computer still won't boot (in the same way, of course).
Summary: try to install USB 2.0 card, computer now does not boot. Before my computer without the card got screwed up, it would only boot if the USB card had a device plugged into it or the USB card wasn't in the PCI slot at all. But now it just doesn't boot up, even without the card installed. I also messed around with the BIOS setup a little more than I knew what I was doing. However, now, every 1/10 tries my computer does boot up, and when it does, it does it seamlessly as well. I'm actually posting this message from the same system. Once though the computer restarted without warning while it was running, arriving at the same point where it won't boot. I'll keep you posted as I figure more out, thanks.
Something is a little messed up here. 1394 is a different technogogy than USB. Did you buy a dual purpose USB/ firewire card?
To attempt to straighten out things I suggest you remove the USB card and reboot. Immediately enter the BIOS screens and look for a setting called "reset configuration data". This setting is disabled by default. Enable this setting for ONE boot cycle only and boot into Windows. This will reconfigure all the system resources.
Reboot to the BIOS screens again and disable that setting and then see if things are straightened out. Look in Device Manager for any conflicts.
When retrying to install the USB card use a different PCI slot, if one is available.
Thanks for the reps. All the package said was USB 2.0 PCI Controller card. The manual said it was a VIA 1394 / USB 2.0 combo card.
I don't have "reset configuration data" as a setting in my BIOS setup, but I tried two called "Load Optimal configuration" and "Load Best Performance configuration."
Not only that, I obviously wasn't clear in my last post. The problem now is that my computer simply will not boot nine times out of ten, which happened after I put in the USB 2.0 card (and took it out). It doesn't beep and no signal comes to the monitor.
After the one time it does boot go to Device manager and see if there are any conflicts.
Did you connect External USB port to a header on the card? If so, you MAY have inadverently connected to a Firewire (1394) header. Not sure what, if any, damage this could cause.
I get the feeling that the way I wrote it wasn't clear, so again, not to bore you with repetition, I don't have the card plugged in the any slot. The card is outside the computer. It does this screwed up boot thing now whether it has it in or not.
Anyway, I don't know what a "header" is but the card did come with a USB connector that was on the card itself, inside, not on the outside jack. I hooked it up to the one inside after I couldn't get the ones outside to work. On all of them, I had to force it a little, but when it went in (the USB cable connector), the light of my USB memory card reader did turn on. Of course, nothing worked anyway.
Now I simply want to get my computer working again. Could it be a disturbed the motherboard accidentally when I was installing it? Thanks for the reps.
It sounds like you DID connect to the Firewire header (connector) on the card. Have you been able to boot and go to Device Manager as suggested?
If not then try this. When first starting the computer continously tap the F8 key. This should bring up a menu. Choose start in Safe Mode. Hopefully you can set into Windows safe made and see if this is simply a harware conflict or something worse.
Once in safe mode go to Start> settings> control panel> system> hardware> device manager. Look for any red or yellow punctuation marks next to any of the listings there. Post back with results.
I should have been clearer: yes, I did check the device manager, and there were no conflicts. In fact, I don't even need to boot my computer into Safe Mode. Here's the scenario as it is, *without* the USB 2.0 / VIA 1394 adapter in my computer,
1/10 times: computer boots up normally. Everything works seamlessly (of course my USB 2.0 adapter of which I am writing this post is *not* in my computer), no fuss. Seamlessly. Restarted without warning once. I've had the thing on for hours now, though.
9/10 times: computer fan is on, hard drive light is stuck on, no signal to monitor, computer does not beep. CD ROM drive sounds like it's trying to read repeatedly.
I'm thinking you may have damaged the MBoard itself. Did you attempt booting into safe mode?
If you can't boot into safe mode OR Linux that would be an indication of a hardware problem.
You can try clearing the CMOS on the MBoard to see if that may reset configuration data.
To clear the CMOS remove the quarter sized coin shaped battery from the MBoard while the computer is unplugged. Take care to notice which side if up and not to damage the contacts. While the battery is removed depress the start button on the case a couple of times.
Reinsert the battery and power cord. Restart the Computer and immediately start tapping the del key until the computer enters the BIOS screens. Reset the time and date and check the settings for any drives that are installed. harddrive and CD drives should be set to auto. Save the changes when exiting the BIOS screens. Allow the computer to attempt booting to Windows.
As far as I know, I have not been able to reset the CMOS because the time on my computer was not reset and some of the settings I know I changed were still the same.
An hour or so ago, before the CMOS thing, I happened to notice that I had a PCI modem (that I don't use) that was screwed into the bracket but not connected to the slot. I connected it to see what would happen. Although Windows didn't find a driver for it (I don't need it anyway), my computer now boots up perfectly 1/3 of the time instead of 1/10.
One thing though is that it won't boot if I restart the system. It never boots that way (i.e. by causing an int 18h or whatever by Windows or BIOS setup, or by pressing the restart button at the front of the chassis). So I'd have to turn it off then on, and then have a ~30% or so chance of having it boot. If it does boot, it does it seamlessly. If it doesn't, nothing happens. I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm just trying to make it clearer. thanks
If you follow my instructions on resetting the CMOS it WILL work. Be sure to UNPLUG not just shutoff the PSU. Did you totally remove the modem card? Cards don't simply come out of the slot by themselves. You should check ALL cards, RAM, cables, etc. to be sure they are properly seated.
You MAY have dislodged the modem card AND other items when installing the USB card.
Okay, I'll try the CMOS again. Here's what I did: I unplugged the power cord (the system was already off). Took the battery out. Pressed the front power button repeatedly. In case you meant the PSU one, I did that one repeatedly too. I then stuck the battery back in. Then I closed the chassis and started the computer back up.
As for the modem, I don't know if it was a co-incidence or it just seamed like it was out. It had to be out of my computer forever until now because Windows never detected it until I plugged it back in (I've had this computer for 2 years, btw). I will check the connections of stuff like RAM cards and such. thanks again
Yes, I went into BIOS and it had the same time and the same boot order (which I knew I changed because the hard-drive was set to first when I first got the computer). :. the CMOS wasn't reset
just now, for one device at a time, I checked the connection, and removed it, and booted the computer to see if removing the particular device fixes the problem. Here are the devices I did this for: - both RAM cards - CDROM drive, HDD, FDD - modem none caused any change (ie did not fix the problem). Also, those are the only devices that connect to the motherboard externally other than the power supply, cpu, and motherboard itself. :. it's probably the case that the problem lies with those units.
Removing the battery should reset the CMOS. There is a jumper labeled clrcmos. Using that jumper while unplugged guarantees the CMOS will be reset. The header the jumper is on has 3 pins. Simply move the jumper to the other position momentarily and then back to the run position.
I just successfully reset my CMOS. I did the following right after: set the correct time. set the boot order to CDROM, Floppy, HDD. Now my computer won't boot at all. it's a good thing I like a challenge, oh well. thanks for any further replies!
I'll be clearer. Before when my computer would boot 10% of the time, it does the same thing: it sends no signal to the monitor and the computer doesn't beep and no BIOS comes up. But now, for the tens of times I've turned on the system it won't boot.
"and no BIOS comes up". I assume you mean there are NO POST screens? Do you get any lights or fan movement at all?
Not looking good. Try booting with a minimal setup. Remove all but one stick of ram and all cards except video. Disconnect ALL drives and USB headers, case to MBoard wiring, mouse, printers, external drives, etc. Momentarily short out the two pins meant for the power switch by touching both with a screwdriver. This should result in a POST up to a screen indicating no fixed disk or invalid system disk.
Does this MBoard have integrated graphics? If so, connect monitor to the integrated and remove the add in card.
In all of these forum posts the POST screen did not go up. The thing is that occasionally for some weird reason the computer does boot up and does so perfectly. Other than that it has no POST screen. Like I say, no signal to the monitor (the light for the monitor is orange (usually green when functioning)). No beep, PSU and CPU fans are both on.
Apparently, my motherboard is a PCCHIPS M758L7 (got that from a diagnostic program).
I'll follow your instructions now. thanks a lot for your help
Like I say, the only devices that connect to my motherboard externally are my CDROM drive, FDD, HDD, modem (which I don't use), PSU, CPU, and RAM sticks. The rest is integrated. thanks again
thanks again for the posts. I gave more posts than this after you suggested I boot with minimal setup. I will now sleep for 8 hours and go to work for another 8 hours. Not that I'm trying to call the shots here. bye for now
OK, I'm back from all that. Like I was saying I disconnected everything from the motherboard except for a stick of RAM, and the monitor. Even the LED and reset/power button connectors. Still did the same thing. Does that mean that it's either my PSU, CPU, or motherboard?
The only other possibility would be a short to case from the MBoard. That can be addressed by removing the board from the case and running outside the case with the same minimal connections and hardware.
One thing that isn't clear to me. You currently get no beeps, correct? Did you computer beep once at startup prior to this problem? Do you have a speaker connected to the MBoard or does it have a small speaker on the board. The onboard is a black plastic component about 1/2 inch in dia. and 1/2" high. There is a hole in the center with some silver showing.
Yes I have a computer speaker (like the black one you described beside my LEDs. OK, of course it wouldn't beep when I used the minimal setup because I didn't have it connected to the speaker. But in the minimal setup, it did the same thing. I guess also I should've mentioned that by "the same thing," it always includes the fact that no matter what, it always boots good if I reset the CMOS. But even if I leave the CMOS settings alone after resetting it, it only works no matter what on the first boot. After that, the same thing. Weird huh? But even without the case to board wiring I have the same problem. thanks again
What I'm about to write applies to the time before "Update." When the computer does boot, it does so perfectly in every sense. I.e. I can post things on this forum, even download and install software. Note that I don't typically do things with computers that use a lot of resources. For example I don't play the advanced computer games. I mean, if all I had to do was reset the CMOS each time I wanted to use the computer, then things would be fine because it's a small price one has to pay for booting up the computer aside from the fact one weasels out of solving the problem. The thing remember is whatever screwed up thing is wrong with my system, it has something to do with putting in (and taking out) the USB 2.0 card. And I need USB 2.0 for my card reader. Thus I gotta fix this.
Update: Now my computer doesn't boot ever (I don't think I even did anything lately with the hardware, except press the power button many times (not to say I did it abrasively or too fast!)). It always just turns on and I hear the fans, the hard drive and CD lights are on, but that's it. Either that or it's just very rare for it to boot up. I tried about 20 times. I haven't tried resetting the CMOS lately, though. I will do that, and also try to see if any values get changed after. wellp, thanks again
Update: it does boot, and I guess it's safe to say at this point that how rare it is is rather unpredictable. What is predictable is that no matter what it boots without a hitch if I reset the CMOS. But I don't even bother changing the settings and it does this thereafter. thanks
There is a utility called Memtest86. Download it and run to test the memory. The CPU is either good or bad. No in between. The other possiblilities ore PSU and MBoard. It would be useful to know why clearing the CMOS allows you to boot. It is possible the BIOS got corrupted during the card episode.
Obviously the BIOS isn't toast, or you would be able to enter it and the computer would never boot.
I don't think the computer can run with the jumper in the clear position but just in case, check the manual to verify which is the run position. You are clearing with the power disconnected aren't you?
If you mean the jumper for clearing the CMOS, I do clear it with the power cord out and the back switch off. I don't have a manual for the machine. The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that I can reset the CMOS and it boots no matter what, but then I'd leave the BIOS settings (even the date, not even go into the setup screen) all alone and it still goes back to booting 25% of the time. I'll run memtest86 now and report back. thanks again
There is a possibility that your Windows installation or Hdrive may be causing the incomplete boots. To troubleshoot you can download and run a drive fittness utility from the harddrive manufacturer. If the drive checks out OK then I suggest you disconnect the drives from the MBoard and attempt to boot. What should happen is you should get a normal boot until a screen comes up with a drive message.
If you can consistantly boot without the harddrive and the drive checks out OK a reinstall of Windows may be in order.
If resetting the BIOS to defaults by clearing the CMOS had any effect you would think it should carry over to the following boot, I agree. The only other fix I can think of would be to flash the BIOS. Even if you flash using the same version of the BIOS. The symptoms point to the BIOS or a bad MBoard. Both oare a part of the MBoard and it seems that you can't continue as is.
You may want to try reinstalling the combo card but without the ports connected. This would be to see if the card is damaged. Then you could try with the USB headers connected. Just be sure to connect the CORRECT header.
If you decide to Flash the BIOS be sure to read exactly how to perform the flash and be sure to get the correct file for your MBoard. There may be multiple versions of your board. You need to get a file that matches the complete model and version/ revision. Also get the corresponding flash utility.
It may not have been the best decision, but I returned the combo card for money.
I don't know if this means anything, but it (doesn't) boot exactly the same way when I have my hard-drive disconnected. That's because no matter what the symptom is that there's no POST screen. So if even without the hard-drive connected there's no POST screen, the hard drive probably isn't the prob. I tried booting without anything connected but a stick of ram and the monitor. Even without the case LEDs and such.
I'll report back when I flash my BIOS. (BTW, I tried running memtest86 and couldn't understand the output. It looked like it displayed the values of the CPU registers over and over again...)
I would swap the PSU. If that didn't work, then I'd swap the RAM with some other RAM of the same kind. If the RAM sticks come up good by running Memtest, it *might* be the RAM sockets, but that is probably unlikely. I bet ya it's either the PSU or motherboard.
You may ought to run a CPU Stress tester like this one:
Enable error checking and run it for an hour or two. The stress test really puts your CPU and your power supply under intense testing.
You should stress test your video card too, not to suggest that it is the culprit. Doing so will test your video card, but most importantly your CPU and PSU. It may do a better job testing your PSU than the CPU stress tester, but I do suggest trying both.
Folks, I'm afraid morality is going down the drain.
Update: OK, now my PSU is making a buzzing noise sometimes. When I tilt it sideways it doesn't make the sound/vibrations, but when it's up it makes it. If it's just the fan, why can't I open it up and change the fan or fix whatever's in there? Is it possible this problem is actually a PSU prob?
I'd swap the PSU to see if the problems persist with it not booting. If it still does not boot sometimes after the PSU is changed, the PSU can't be the problem. If it does not persist, there you go, it's the PSU. If it is the PSU, there most likely is a link between the buzz and the no booting. Bad PSUs sometimes buzz, but like you said it could be a fan.
Folks, I'm afraid morality is going down the drain.
In my opinion, you should swap the whole PSU unit FIRST before buying a new PSU fan because if you buy a new PSU fan, you may realize the PSU was the culprit all along, then you'll have to take the fan back.
Folks, I'm afraid morality is going down the drain.
OK, I finally got over procrastinating and bought a PSU. Thanks for holding on. Anyway, I plug the thing in, and press the switch. No signal, no post, fans on, same kablooie. Pressed it for three more times, and finally started up, seamlessly, just as before.
Not the PSU I guess ... motherboard? What should I do before replacing it? thanks again
More than likely it is the motherboard. You could make sure you have the connections secured between the PSU and motherboard, but that probably won't work. Can you still not boot the PC 9/10 times as you said before?
As a suggestion, you might should disconnect EVERYTHING BUT THE BASICS and try booting again. When I say everything but the basics, I mean every PCI card, USB device, serial device, CD/DVD drive, and floppy drive. I had an experience where a computer I was working on just would not boot at all, until I unplugged the hard drive power cable. The computer posted fine, so I reconnected the hard drive power cable. When I did this, I turned it back on, and the floppy drive literally started smoking. That's why I suggest disconnecting everything but the graphics card, main hard drive, mouse, and keyboard. If it still does not boot sometimes, go even deeper and unplug the mouse and keyboard!!! You won't be able to control anything, and if it posts, you'll get a keyboard or mouse error, but even then you can see if it still fails to post or not. I know this sounds crazy, but you could try swapping graphics cards. There are so many things that can cause a computer not to boot.
If abnormal things still happen, the motherboard more than likely needs to be replaced.
"Not the PSU I guess ... motherboard? What should I do before replacing it?"
You should back up your important data. After that, you can replace the motherboard if you want.
Folks, I'm afraid morality is going down the drain.
My nearest computer retailer is selling a mboard that fits my CPU (don't know about the dimm sdrams) for about 65..70 greenbacks (used, socket 370). Hope I can get this thing up and running before classes start. Oh well.
Anyhoo, I did try a setup with the basics. I double checked everything to make sure the only things connected were: - CPU in socket - PSU connected to mboard - RAM stick in slot.
even case LEDs/power switches were not connected. I do mean any wire / conductive connector. I turned it on by shorting the mboard connector for the power switch.
So far, things that have been swapped are: - PSU - RAM
I don't know if one RAM slot is more important than the others, but right now I'll try just taking a stick of RAM out of the one that's never been empty (maybe it's the RAM slot that's screwing up, ya never know I guess).
That 9/10 you mentioned on your last post was a statistical screw-up. It just so happened that just those 9 times it worked. The thing is that after a zillion times of turning the thing off and on, it's statistically probable that I'll run into a time where it works for 9 times straight. So in reality, whether it works or not is truly random somehow (??); probably around 25% of the time in total. thanks again
"(maybe it's the RAM slot that's screwing up, ya never know I guess)."
You're right, RAM sockets can be cause the problems too, that's not uncommon.
OTheHill in response 34 mentioned Memtest86. Did you run this again and if so did you see any errors? You don't have to understand anything else, just see if it shows how many errors were found.
When you said you started with the basics, did you unhook the floppy drive and DVD drive? You never know what it could be. I'm trying to exhaust any other possible reason before resorting to the motherboard being the culprit, cause even though it can be fun, it can be a pain for some people having to back everything up, then rebuild.
Folks, I'm afraid morality is going down the drain.
Yup, did the floppy (that's what I meant by FDD) and the CD-RW drive. Nothing was connected, nothing, including IDE devices. No cards either. Guess I'll have to try memtest86 again. And I still have to try taking the RAM out of the memory slot.
Alright, no time to delay, I'll do it now (I hope).
Also, I keep forgetting to tell you guys that there's no thermal grease between my CPU and my heat sink. But I think that problem corresponds to different symptoms (symptoms which my computer doesn't have).
thanks again
Update: I took the RAM stick out of the slot that's never been empty. Same problem with that. Also, I've had memtest86 running for about 2 hours and have not gotten an error yet. Maybe it reports errors after it's done the whole thing but I bet it does it right away.
Let Memtest keep going for awhile. You're right, it does immediately let you know about any errors.
A bad CPU could cause those symptoms, I guess even though the stress test didn't cause any strange results. That could be it too since you don't have thermal grease applied. Overheating *may* be a factor here.
If it really is a problem with the RAM sockets and the RAM is good, there will be no errors with Memtest.
Since you've disconnected everything and still nothing, it could be either the graphics card (which I doubt but is possible), the CPU, or the motherboard.
I bet it's the motherboard.
Folks, I'm afraid morality is going down the drain.
The fact that the video is integrated rules out any possibility that the video card is the problem.
Both slots could be bad, thus causing the problems no matter what slot or slots the RAM is installed in.
If the PC does not boot the first time the button is pushed, after the PC has been off for a long time to me rules out the possibility that thermal grease would help.
Do you know off hand what your temperatures are inside the case when the CPU is idle and when it's running at 100%?
Folks, I'm afraid morality is going down the drain.
OK, thanks for holding on. It's just been so busy I didn't have time to keep you posted.
So here's the scoop. I replaced my PSU, not the problem. Replaced my motherboard. Didn't even start after. Bought a connector for my power supply to a thing on the mother board that said ATX 12V something. The thing now goes to the POST every time (so that's better now), but when WinXP starts up, it goes to the logo screen and reboots.
So it sounds like it could be the CPU or the power supply or something bad like that, but here's the kicker. Linux boots up without a hitch.
If the new motherboard's model is different than the old motherboard's model, rebooting at the XP logo is exactly what it's going to do. You need to reinstall Windows XP from scratch.
Folks, I'm afraid morality is going down the drain.
