Computer needs external fan to work

Asus P4p800-e deluxe motherboard
December 15, 2010 at 18:48:13
Specs: Ubuntu10, 3.2ghz/2gig
Hi was getting a lot of browser crashing and numerous other problems and decided to upgrade the OS. Now it is worse but if i run my floor fan into the open case everything works well. I know years back i did this on a pc that hated summer and it is summer here in Oz but i have seen machines pull through more heat than this. Is the psu dying?

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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#1
December 15, 2010 at 18:57:48
Probably either the cpu or video card getting too hot.

Real men don't use AntiVirus; they just reformat


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#2
December 15, 2010 at 19:07:41
Yeah i only replaced the motherboard a week ago i think. Plus the video card could be a better one. I think i have a spare one that is better and i should do that anyway. Thanks will look in the bios as well after the thunder storm outside stops...better get off the computer :0)

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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#3
December 15, 2010 at 19:35:03
An email friend of mine lives in Oz and he hasn't mentioned a problem with his computers when it's really hot where he is, and his place has no basement or other cooler place.

A few things come to mind.

Since you've told me / us you piece together computers, retrieve discarded computers...

The cpu fan is inadequate, or the cpu heat sink is inadequate, or both.

The cpu fan is installed upside down.
The cpu fan always must blow TOWARDS the heat sink
You should be able to see the entire fan blade when it's installed, with no support rib or non moving center part on top.

The heat sink isn't quite sitting flat on the top of the cpu.

There's no thermal compound, pad, or grease between the heat sink and the cpu.

The bearings in the PS fan or the cpu fan are failing - it can't spin fast enough anymore. In that case you're likely to hear screeching or rattling noises when you first start up the computer after it has not been used for many hours, such as overnight.


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#4
December 16, 2010 at 01:40:17
Yeah it is pretty hot where i live. It differs on where you live in Oz. Some places are very cool compared to Sydney. This machine hasn't got all the bits from other machines in it. I only replaced the motherboard in this one. My other machines have been messed with a lot more. I put the thermal paste on according to a youtube video but i will recheck when i have time.
Now that i got rid of 6 machines i was working on(they will be sent to a poor country :0)) today so i have space to pull my machines out of their positions and can see whatever problem they may have. I might also reorganise things so there is more airflow around the backs of the machines as some previous machines did have this overheating problem in summer. This machine is also probably overdue for a new psu as it was custom built by someone then given to a friend upstairs in my building. I think it is the first psu it ever had. The video card i put in after the motherboard replacement because i noticed that the video card had an issue. I tried it in another working machine and it still have an issue so i trashed it. I thought the video card i put in was fine but it is not a great card. I will put the better one i have spare into the machine.
I gave everything a good clean before i attached everything to the mb so all of that should be fine. Not that i am an expert he he. We have a lot of dust/black soot/pollution in this area and i have a habit of opening machines and cleaning. It is the only way.
No rattle or screeching. There was before i think i replaced the mb. I think it might have been that video card i trashed.
I do have th computer on too long sometimes.
Anyway will recheck and look at bios temperature later. Summer time and there is too much to do :0)
Thanks tubesandwires

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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#5
December 16, 2010 at 08:38:14
"...was getting a lot of browser crashing and numerous other problems and decided to upgrade the OS. Now it is worse..."

It shouldn't matter what OS is used.

"Probably either the cpu or video card getting too hot."

"will recheck and look at bios temperature later."

That's the first thing you should check - the cpu temp - when you get symptoms like you've been getting.
You can determine what cpu you have on both the Intel and AMD web sites by running a program, if you don't know the exact model part number, and you can search the web to find mentions of what typical idle and load temps people are getting for that cpu.

"This machine hasn't got all the bits from other machines in it. I only replaced the motherboard in this one."

When you're dealing with computers you didn't put together yourself, then it's quite possible this applies, especially if the cpu was upgraded from what the system originally had....

The cpu fan is inadequate, or the cpu heat sink is inadequate, or both.
If you have another cpu fan or cpu fan heat sink combo that can be mounted on the heat sink or cpu that has more cfm capacity (e.g. the same physical size fan will have a higher current rating and/or spin faster if it has a higher cfm capacity) or a larger heat sink fin surface area, try that.

The cpu fan is installed upside down.

"I put the thermal paste on according to a youtube video but i will recheck when i have time. "

It's good that you did that, but that's usually not necessary, and it's difficult to see whether the heat sink is actually sitting flat on the cpu when the mboard is mounted in the case.

Personally, if the heat sink is not loose on the cpu when the heat sink has been un-clamped, before you try twisting the heat sink back and forth while pressing straight down, I've learned I don't need to mess with re-doing the thermal pad or paste or grease, my reasoning being that if it's not loose, then the thermal contact between the two is fine. I've never had problems when I assumed that.

Removing a heat sink that has become bonded to the cpu as if it were crazy glued because of the hardening of inferior thermal compound is a nightmare (thermal pads don't do that in my experience; thermal grease - pure translucent silicon compound with no additives - never hardens). In that case, you have no choice except to pull straight up on the heat sink / cpu combo because you can't release the ZIF socket lever when the heat sink won't come off the normal way, you risk damaging the cpu pins or the ZIF socket when you do that, and I have NOT been able to get the cpu un-bonded even when the assembly was removed - I could see no way of doing that without damaging the cpu while doing so . If it's firmly bonded when you unclamp the heat sink and twist the heat sink back and forth while pressing straight down hard, don't bother to try the remove the heat sink, unless you want to change the cpu.

"I might also reorganise things so there is more airflow around the backs of the machines .."

AMD proved in tests that if the system needs a cooling fan, the best place to mount it is on the back of the tower case as high as you can mount it, blowing air OUT of the case - the support rib(s) and central non moving center part towards the outside of the case.
Cheaper cases tend to have not enough total hole surface area for a fan to have decent air flow where a case fan mounts. I've cut out the metal on a few cases because of that, but that's not easy to do, and on one case I had to install a fan grill over the open hole because the fan was too noisy in the open hole. In retrospect , a better way is to use drill bits larger than the holes to drill out the existing tiny holes, or drill more holes. Either way, you produce metal bits, so it's better to do that when the mboard is not mounted in the case.

"I do have th computer on too long sometimes."

That shouldn't matter.



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#6
December 16, 2010 at 08:53:49
OK thanks sorry i didn't know that that is why i ask he he. I just got back from clubbing so this will have to wait again. I need some sleep.

I put exactly the same model motherboard in this machine and using the same cpu i had before. Nothing else is changed.

Nope i did everything exactly the same as the previous situation. I laid things side by side and plugged everything the same...hard to explain but everything is the same.
Well i wasn't sure wether the old thermal paste was good anymore so i thought it better to replace it. I followed the video so i don't think there was moving it back and forth or anything like that. It was straight downed clamped if that makes sense. Definately not loose. I had to wipe of the thermal paste to id the cpu originally because i didn't know what it was.

Um this is not an AMD machine. You might be thinking of the other machine i have been working on and another machine i use. There are two fans besides the cpu on and what is in the psu. On is on the back very high and one is on the case door. Yeah i think this is a coolermaster case and was quite a high end multimedia or gaming machine in it's time.

OK cool i tend to have the machine on and i walk away a fair bit as my medical condition makes it hard to sit too long.

Anyway sleep time and i hope i have time to tend to the problems tomorrow....:0)

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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#7
December 16, 2010 at 11:26:42
"Well i wasn't sure wether the old thermal paste was good anymore so i thought it better to replace it."

I've never come across, or heard of, a situation where if the thermal pad was still intact or thermal compound or thermal or grease was still there that it wasn't still doing it's job thermally, even when it's inferior thermal compound that has hardened.
Thermal grease - pure silicon paste with no additives - translucent whitish, almost clear when in a thin layer - never "wears out" or hardens, and can be re-used if it's not contaminated.


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#8
December 16, 2010 at 17:33:54
Oh ok.thanks because i don't know much about it. I have seen grey, white and some pastes that look hardened but then again i am nearly always dealing with very old machines. I guess i don't know what i am looking at. Not educated yet! So i got to rethink how i see these things now. Thanks for that info! Now is the time for me to look at these machines. Will retest one AMD64 machine then get back to the Asus p4p800-e :0)

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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#9
December 18, 2010 at 02:03:47
OK finally got round to this. I looked at the bios and under power>hardware monitor it says this:
CPU temperature 51 degrees c/122 degrees F
MB temp 29 degrees c/82 degrees F
Q Fan disabled
CPU fan 2280RPM
Chassis fan speed N/A
Power fan speed n/a
VCORE Voltage 1.344v
3.3v voltage 2.896v
5v voltage 4.462v *sometimes red and sometimes black as the numbers change*
12v voltage 11.49v

OK hopefully i typed that all out correctly. I am going to google and see what temperature things should be as i have no idea.
I put in the video card from a spare machine that is much better and i have had no freezes so far. The room fan is not being blown into the machine like before so maybe things are good?

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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#10
December 18, 2010 at 06:43:31
"CPU temperature 51 degrees c/122 degrees F"

That's not usual for an Intel cpu, but is that and idling temp, or a temp while or just after you have browser crashing ?
If that's an idling temp - read when you're not doing much - that may be a bit high.

"5v voltage 4.462v *sometimes red and sometimes black as the numbers change*"

That may indicate a PS problem - depending on how much lower it gets.
Most voltage readings are supposed to be within 5% of the nominal value.
+5v is used by the drives, mboard, USB, serial, and parallel ports, and cards installed in slots.
Some such as the cpu core voltage are supposed to be within 3% of the nominal value. When there is nothing wrong with the mboard, the readings for +3.3v, +5.0v, and +12.0v directly indicate those voltages the PS is putting out - I've seen only one case where a damaged mboard generated incorrect voltage readings in the bios.


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#11
January 5, 2011 at 07:29:28
Hi sorry only just saw this message for some reason and wasn't emailed so didn't know you had replied.
I went into the bios to find out that info. I have never learnt how to check in Ubuntu Linux. So when i am in the bios is this idle?
As it turns out the psu died the other day so i have replaced it. Things seem to be working now but now i have a linux issue. Will report back soon if it is hardware....thanks Tubes!!!!

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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#12
January 5, 2011 at 07:59:37
"Hi sorry only just saw this message for some reason and wasn't emailed so didn't know you had replied."

You get an email from this site only when a PM has been sent to you.

"So when i am in the bios is this idle?"

Your computer is in an "idle" state when the cpu has warmed up as much as it's going to, e.g. the computer has been running for at least a half hour, and the computer hasn't been actively doing anything for at least a few minutes, such that the cpu temp is as low as it normally gets when fully warmed up.


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#13
January 5, 2011 at 20:19:17
Oh no i get emailed when there is a reply to this thread. Thats how i know to look. I rarely get PM's. Probably once every 5 years he he.

Ah well i have no memory of that day when i went into the bios. If i had the pc on for a while or not. Thanks :0)

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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#14
January 5, 2011 at 22:35:12
"Oh no i get emailed when there is a reply to this thread."

If so, then you enabled a setting that I don't have enabled for my profile.



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#15
January 6, 2011 at 00:59:25
Yeah i think by having it enabled it does expose me to people that want to use it for spam but i am not good at checking in so to speak :0)

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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#16
January 6, 2011 at 08:06:16
Your email address is not revealed to anyone else when you enable that feature. The same goes for when you get an email about there being a PM sent to you from this web site.
You are not in danger of receiving spam because of either of those.

On the other hand, if your email address is stated in a post anywhere on the internet, you are vulnerable to it being abused.


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#17
January 6, 2011 at 19:11:59
Oh maybe that changed recently because before it was revealed. I remember i had a discussion with other people on computing.net about it.

"The meaning of life is to be happy and useful" Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama


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