"....symptoms are that the computer without warning just shuts off. and sometimes wont turn on...." That's not a bad ram symptom especially. If you really had bad ram you would be getting frequent data errors, all the time. If you had never tested the ram previosly, it could be it has always been slightly incompatible, but not enough to cause you big problems. Lots of things can cause that. Common ones are....... If it only happens when the computer has been on a while: - the cpu fan has stopped spinning, or is spinning too slowly, or the cpu heatsink is clogged - any of those can overheat your cpu and damage it, and while it is being damaged the cpu will get more and more flaky over time - no spin will kill the cpu in a short time. Some mboard bioses can be set to shut down the computer if the cpu gets too hot - in that case it will probably not start up again until it has cooled off enough. - the PS fan has stopped spinning, or is spinning too slow, the PS circuits overheat, and eventually the heat kills the PS. Some PS's will shut off if they get too hot, and refuse to start up again until they have cooled enough. If it happens regardless of whether the computer is warmed up: - the PS is failing or defective, whether it's fan is working properly or not. My brother had one that seemed fine otherwise, but would black screen and reboot if you tried to burn a CD. Check the current voltage levels reported in the bios - they should all be within 10% of what they're supposed to be. Open up your case, check your cpu fan, heatsink. Check out the PS fan, and whether the PS stinks of something burnt when it is off. Less common - a faulty hard drive - check out the hard drive with a free diagnostic utility available at the manufacturer of your hard drive's web site.

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"Any RAM chip that chooses to be picky when used with comparable and even sometimes identical motherboards to me is pretty much garbage." A module will work fine in an identical mboard if it works fine in the one it is identical to. Whether it works in comparable mboards is a crap shoot. Ram compatibilty is often consistant for different mboard makers with the same chipsets and memory controllers, but not all mboard makers wire the chips to the mboard as the chipset designers had intended, or in the same way. "It is what it is and truthfully there is little sense in memory that's purchased within the right spec that fails to work based on some lame manufacturersor brand incompatibility excuse." It isn't the mboard makers fault particularly, and it isn't an excuse. The problem is there is more to the spec than just the PCxxx number or whatever, the mboard must be able to read the individual chips on the module properly, recognize the memory arrangements on the chips, etc. The module makers pump out mostly whatever is the cheapest module configurations to make at a particular time, and that changes over time. E.g. when PC66 SDRAM first came out, the chips they used on the modules were of a smaller capacity, had 4 or 8 bit memory arrangements within the chips, and many modules had at least 8, often 16 chips on them. Now PC133 modules tend to have 4 or 8 chips, now that larger capacity chips are much cheaper, 8 or 16 or 32 bit memory arrangements within the chips, many of capacities or types the older mboards can't read, despite PC133 being backward compatible with PC100 and PC66. Some chipsets are very good regarding accepting a wide variety of types of module configurations - e.g. Via MVP3 - some are not - e.g. 440LX. I certainly don't like this incomptability problem either, but it's a reality. Why else do you think it is that all decent mboard makers test their mboards to see what ram works in them properly, more so now than ever before?

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"The bad ram myth again. You probably are trying to use ram that is incompatible with your mboard. It is probably NOT bad. You cannot fix bad ram, but that's probably not your problem" EMUSE's addendum....... It used to work great for about a year. now this came along. My point is you are always very quick to assume everything is because of the oxymoronic incompatible RAM myth, how the heck do you prove incompatiblity on ram that is within compatibility specification ?, I can understand if the RAM purchased is not within compatible specification. Furthermore EMUSE has had the RAM for a year, and AFAIK incompatibility on computer components doesn't build up over time. StopBadware

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{tubesandwires}Your responses are just to darn lengthy.I often avoid reading the complete response.You are apparently good at computing.Please don't answer this statement with any flareups.Corrective Criticisms from me are only intended in a good nature.Have a nice day!!

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Well,after all isn't the subject of this post bad ram?

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(street1) "{tubesandwires}Your responses are just to darn lengthy" Sorry about that, but it's built in to me to try to thuroughly explain things - I'm a Virgo. The whole point is people often think they have bad ram when they don't, and it's almost always something else that is really causing their problem. All right, all right. I retract this because it probably doesn't apply in this case: "You probably are trying to use ram that is incompatible with your mboard." and this is just plain wrong - it would either be compatible or not compatible: "If you had never tested the ram previosly, it could be it has always been slightly incompatible, but not enough to cause you big problems" This can apply, especially to DDRram, but probably not in this case: "In other cases it won't work properly in your mboard - in that case, if you test the ram with a memory testing utility, it WILL fail, not because it was bad, but because it is incomptible with your particular mboard and cannot work correctly in it." If you use a memory testing utility on a mboard that shares the ram with onboard video, I know from experience that if you test the portion that is used by the onboard video, the tests will fail that portion of the memory (at least on a GA-7MMZH it does). You can have, and I have seen, cases where individual modules seem to work fine by themselves, but when combined with certain other modules in other slots, the memory count is not the total of the two but some odd amount, or the amount of one module's capacity may not show up at all in the memory count. After taking this into account: Amount of ram reported depends on how your bios is configured. - some bioses report all of your ram - some report all your ram, minus 1mb (the amount conventional memory uses). - some report all your ram, minus that used for onboard video, sometimes minus 1mb more as well. I have seen examples of all of these incompatibilities when you install a module: - computer boots, but memory count is weird - often less than the total, sometimes less than without the added module(s). E.g. a common one is you add a module and only half of it's capacity is recognized. - computer won't boot (post), you have no video - you may not even get a single beep, or you may or may not get a multiple beep error code - you may get nothing but a black screen, and your Plug & Play monitor led may not be green, but some other color, or may flash on and off. If you have other ram in the slots that was working, and you take out the module you added, the computer boots fine. .... The PCxxx spec itself is backward compatible - e.g. PC133 is backward compatible with PC100 and PC66 - but there are often other factors that make a module of a higher PCxxx spec not work, or not work properly, in a mboard designed to use a lower PCxxx spec. Rather than them having to explain that, you often see in mboard manuals and on mboard web sites e.g. "only use PC66 ram in a mboard designed to use PC66", when it really isn't the PCxxx rating that is the problem, it's the other factors - e.g. PC66 is more likely to work because the other factors are more likely to be compatible. For example, for 128mb SDRam for a PII, Intel 440LX chipset, that originally used PC66 sdram. I had the best success (2 of 2) with PC100 sdram, 16 chips (8 on each side), less success (1 of 3) with PC100 8 chip (1 side), no success (no post) with new 4 chip PC133, but an old PC133 8 chip from another computer works fine (another used PC133 8 chip did not - no post). ..... There often isn't enough information in a mboard manual or on a mboard website about what the details of the specs of modules that will work in the mboard are, especially in newer manuals. E.g. they tell you the PCxxx specs, the capacities of modules that will work, sometimes whether they can or can't be single or double side in certain slots, sometimes whether they must be matched pairs or not, but they often don't tell you such things as what of 4, or 8, or 16, or 32bit memory arrangements within the chips on the module they will recognize. The major ram module distributors and manufacturers have actually tested the mboards to see which modules work in them properly. However there may also be other modules that will work that aren't listed. E.g. with the later Via MVP3 chipset northbridge/southbridge combos, the mboards they were on were often rated to take 128mb modules max in each slot - they will actually take some 256mb modules in each slot and recognize them fully, doubling the max ram capacity of the mboard, but only if they have 16 chips (doublesided, 8 each side). These chipsets were often rated to take PC100 max - they will recognize some PC133 modules fine, providing the chips on the modules are compatible with what the chipset can read. How do you get the right module for sure, other than ordering it online from the major ram distributors that have the modules that will work (compatibilty) lists of what works? The simplist solution is to take your working computer in it's case with you when you buy memory, and try the ram on the spot - if it doesn't work properly don't buy it. It is also a good idea to take your monitor and keyboard with you - some places won't try the memory without charging you a fee to do it, and you will have to do that yourself. You will see whether the computer recognizes the ram on the first screen as you boot - it will count and display the proper amount of total memory - no need go any farther or boot into windows. (for some such as DDRram you may have to additionally do memory tests). If it seems like a big bother to do that, if you do get a module that is not compatible with your mboard, you will be in for trips back to the place where you bought the ram to exchange it for ram that does work, perhaps several times, IF they allow that at all, or you will probably be stuck with a module that doesn't work in your mboard if you ordered it online from somewhere other than a major with modules that will work lists and you picked one of those.

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{tubesandwires}Sorry if I offended you.Response 12 all made a lot of sense.Probably I should just read the responses and learn more each day.{Virgo}?Well,that explains it good enough to me.

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You didn't offend me in particular. I've heard it all before. If you or anyone reads what I wrote and learns from it, then I've accomplished what I wanted to do.

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