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Bad Motherboard?

March 12, 2009 at 16:49:29
Specs: Windows

ok Have this comp
2x 512 mb ddr 400mhz ram
Geforce 7600 gt 256 mb ddr3 pci ex16
2 500 GB western digital IDE hard drives
and a 300 GB Sata Hard Drive
i have a cd rw and a cd/dvd rw combo drive
and floppy drive
350 watt Powersupply

the Comp is about 4 years old now worked fine untill Microsofts SP3
came out shut down the amd as you all know

when i tried to boot it the power led comes on the front and stays on
power goest to everything fans spin graphics card fans spin but the
system does not post beep also the PS2 keyboard/ mouse does not power on

i tried taking the ram out and i still did not get any post beeps with a
motherboard speaker hooked up
i changed out the graphics, one i know works, from a pci express for a pci card
and still nothing on the screen,

i tested the psu by shorting the Green wire to the black wire and it started
up no funny smells cpu appears to heat up speakers still crack when the
cord is removed from the onboard sound

Can anyone help me out i think its either the cpu or the mother board

also shortly before i updated to sp3 my pci e graphics card stopped working and i had (not sure if it was the slot)
to use a lesser 256 mb nvidia geforce fx 5200 pci

and now both have stopped working

any ideas? please help


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#1
March 12, 2009 at 17:12:14

Don't eliminate the power supply just because it shows some signs of power, and your green wire jumper 'seems' to work. The PS has to provide several voltages and the wrong one missing or out of tolerance can cause your problem.
I would try swapping the power supply out as the first step.

You can eliminate any other devices by disconnecting everything from the motherboard except the wires from the case, Remove the RAM (again) and remove the graphics card. You should get error beeps because of the missing RAM. If you don't, you can be pretty sure it's either a power supply or motherboard problem. The CPU is very unlikely.

If you do get error beeps, then something connected to the motherboard was causing the problem.


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#2
March 12, 2009 at 17:19:48

"worked fine untill Microsofts SP3 came out shut down the amd as you all know"

That's only under very certain circumstances. I've installed SP3 on at least 6 AMD systems & didn't have a problem with a single one of them.

"any ideas?"

How about the fact that you only have a 350W PSU? You didn't mention the make/model or amperage specs & there's also no mention of the make/model of the board or CPU. Just because the PSU fan spins up is no guarantee that the PSU is putting out adequate wattage/amperage.


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#3
March 12, 2009 at 20:24:05

That was my thoughts i was looking for a multimeter before i
rule out the PSU as for everything else i have it narrowed down to the psu cpu or mobo it wont post and i tested everything else which i ruled out

and as for sp3 thats just went it all went to hell, and i was
refering to the day it was released was when this happened

thanks for the help if its not the psu then il test the mobo
since there 939 sockets, the hardware is hard to find

and sorry its an msi k8n neo4 v2

http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?...


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Related Solutions

#4
March 12, 2009 at 20:39:31

You can look up the specs of a video card and often find what the minimum required PS wattage capacity and, more important, the current at +12V for the system must be.
If one card manufacturer doesn't have that info, any card with the same video chipset has similar requirements.

Here's a card with the same 7600GT video chipset and 256mb memory as your original card:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index....

"Requirements
Minimum of a 350 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amps.)"

Your problem is probably caused from your 350 watt power supply being 100% loaded by the card for much of the time for four years, assumming it can achieve that current rating at12v, but it can't actually handle that, or maybe it can't actually achieve that current rating at 12v.

What is the +12v rating on the label on the PS?

What brand and model is it?

If the PS is an el-cheapo model, it's likely it can't actually achieve the ratings continuously and was slowly damaged over time.

Usually when someone thinks there's something wrong with the mboard or the video it's actually caused by something else. Probably the most frequent cause we hear about is a failing power supply.

Failing power supplies are common and can cause your symptoms.
Check your PS.
They often partially work, fans and hard drives may spin, leds may come on, yet you get no video and the mboard will not boot all the way.
See response 4 in this:
http://www.computing.net/hardware/w...

Remove the cover from the PS and look for failing or failed capacitors.
Pictures of blown capacitors, other components, power supplies, Athlon cpu's, etc.:
http://www.halfdone.com/Personal/Jo...

You could look for those on the mboard too but you aren't likely to find them on a 4 year old mboard.

If you find nothing obvious wrong about the PS, the only way of finding out for sure whether it's the problem or not is to try another PS with enough capacity with your system, or to try your PS with another working system 350 watts is enough for.

If you can borrow a PS temporarily from another working computer, do that before you buy one.

When you buy a PS, get a decent one - see response 3 in this:
http://www.computing.net/answers/ha...
.........

"I've installed SP3 on at least 6 AMD systems & didn't have a problem with a single one of them."

Same here.


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#5
March 12, 2009 at 21:15:36

well The psu is fine it works perfectly in another computer
which rules it out finally and on top of that like i said before my computer finally stopped POSTing i was using the Geforce fx 5200 which i well below the amp rating on my +12v line
the fx5200 needs what about 14A and my 350w provides 16A

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#6
March 13, 2009 at 08:54:39

"the fx5200 needs what about 14A and my 350w provides 16A"

The CPU & video card (depending on the card) use the majority of the +12v amperage. If you have an 89W CPU, that accounts for approx 7.5A. Each drive uses approx 1.0A, each fan uses approx 0.25A. Standard PCI cards don't use the +12v rail but AGP & PCI-e cards do. And depending on whether the card is low end or high end, it can gobble up a lot of amps.

I'm not saying the PSU is bad, but it's definitely underpowered for your system.


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#7
March 13, 2009 at 09:37:55

yeah ive thought of buying a new mobo and a larger 680w with
+12v line 26A
after adding the ampere up with about 12A leaving 4A left
so it should still power the system
but it just does not POST


i mean it worked perfectly well for the last 6 years the last four ive had it and everything worked just fine


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#8
March 13, 2009 at 13:16:43

"i was using the Geforce fx 5200 which i well below the amp rating on my +12v line
the fx5200 needs what about 14A and my 350w provides 16A"

According to the info I found in response 4, the 7600GT needs a minimum of 18 amps. Your PS may be damaged from being used for the 7600GT all that time despite the fact it works with another systyem.


Has the mboard been subjected to a power failure event since it last worked properly?

Open up your case and examine the mboard to see if you have bad capacitors, and/or other findable signs of mboard damage .

This was the original bad capacitor problem - has some example pictures.
History of why the exploding capacitors and which mboard makers were affected:
http://members.datafast.net.au/~dft...

What to look for, mboard symptoms, example pictures:
http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=5
Home page that site
- what the problem is caused by
- he says there are STILL bad capacitors on more recent mboards.
http://www.badcaps.net/

Pictures of blown capacitors, other components, power supplies, Athlon cpu's, etc.:
http://www.halfdone.com/Personal/Jo...


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#9
March 13, 2009 at 16:13:06

ok i am A+ certified

there are no bad capacitors on anything the comp hasnt
been on since the problem because it doest Post its on for
like 15 20 sec while i see if anything boots nothing does
nothing happens SO NOT SUBJECTED TO ANY POWER FAILURE AT ALL
besides according to jam PCI doesnt need the +12v which
my fx 5200 is and does not require the +12v

The PSU also worked in my other comp that has

3 500 gb hard drives
bio star p4m80-m4
1 gb ram
3 case fans
pci diamond radeon 9250
the geforce fx 5200 and
a linksys wireless card
2 cd/dvd rw drives
(this comp uses a 250w PSU) for the past 5 years and has
no problems

the PSU Compeletely powered up the other system and i
played World of warcraft on for 8 hours everything ran fine,
Theres no blown capactiors in the PSU or on mobo
Once again PSU works and is fine it supplys the correct
voltage as i checked with a multimeter



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#10
March 13, 2009 at 20:22:03

Did you by any chance clean the inside of the case with a regular vaccuum cleaner??
.......

It does appear this mboard is fried for whatever reason that isn't apparent, but you've made a lot of assumptions that aren't correct.

It usually isn't the mboard that's the problem, according to what I've seen myself and in posts I've seen and posted in with on the web, maybe 90% of the time, or more.

The PS voltages being okay doesn't necessarily indicate the PS is okay. The voltages have to be accurate, plus or minus 10% for most voltages, 5% for a few, but the voltages being within that range doesn't tell you whether the PS can still deliver the current it was originally rated to deliver, or whether it responds to the load on it properly. The most important thing other than those things is the chip that controls the PS - if that is out of whack the behavior of the PS is out of whack. I've seen a few PSs that I could find nothing else wrong with - the only thing they could no longer do properly is respond to additional load properly.

So, yes, the voltages must be within the required range - if they aren't that's a sure sign the PS is failing - but that doesn't necessarily indicate the PS is not defective.
You don't need a multimeter or one of those voltage tester thingys you plug into a PS that has the leds (and nothing more; there are ones with more to them) if you have access to more than one computer and can look in the bios at the current voltages on at least one.
.....

The 9250 is a pretty good chipset. I have a clone card with the AGP version, with video in as well as TV out (REX, as in T-Rex, leds galore). The AGP version is the highest Radeon video chipset version still being made you can get that supports 2X AGP on older mboards that have only that (and 1X, but very few mboards that had only 1X AGP were made) , and it supports 4X and 8X too.
......

The FX5200 and the 9250 have the same minumum PS requirements - 250 watts, 18 amps.

http://www.visiontek.com/products/c...
250 Watt power supply or greater recommended

http://www.pricebat.ca/ATI-Radeon-9...
Minimum of a 250 Watt power supply.(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amps.)

http://www.evga.com/products/morein...
Requirements
Minimum of a 250 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amps.)

http://www.pny.com/products/verto/g...
A 250W system power supply

http://www.canadacomputers.com/inde...
Minimum of a 250 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amp Amps.)

That said, you don't need twice that for the two cards on one system.
Maybe 300 watts and 23 amps mimimum would be enough to handle both cards on the same system .

When a PS doesn't have enough capacity, usually it still works, as long as it isn't grossly under powered, but it's overloaded all the time and it will fail eventually, sooner or later.
Better PSs have anti-overload protection built in and will shut down automatically if the PS is overloaded a small percentage, E.g. Enermax, probably the 3 year warranty Antecs if not the 1 year ones.


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#11
March 13, 2009 at 21:08:38

i dont doubt that the mother board isnt the problem but iam
looking at buying a new 939 mobo and a much larger
Powersupply, like the said the PSU

works great in an highly overloaded system

i thanks for the help i dont want to buy a new ps if its not the
problem you know

i currently dont have a job and little money for the repair i
need to find out specifically what the problem is before i go
spending the money, and my Life is pretty much saved on
this comp so i need it back up and running :(

and so far the Powersupply has passed all the tests indicating its good,

But again thanks for all the ideas, i just needed other minds to make sure i was on the right path but so far everyones said its the PSU but i highly dont believe it is i mean it was constructed by a PC engineer for systemax so i know it was designed well


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#12
March 14, 2009 at 00:26:49

i dont doubt that the mother board isnt the problem but iam
looking at buying a new 939 mobo and a much larger
Powersupply, like the said the PSU

works great in an highly overloaded system

i thanks for the help i dont want to buy a new ps if its not the
problem you know

i currently dont have a job and little money for the repair i
need to find out specifically what the problem is before i go
spending the money, and my Life is pretty much saved on
this comp so i need it back up and running :(

and so far the Powersupply has passed all the tests indicating its good,

But again thanks for all the ideas, i just needed other minds to make sure i was on the right path but so far everyones said its the PSU but i highly dont believe it is i mean it was constructed by a PC engineer for systemax so i know it was designed well


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