Name: Hawk1983 Date: April 7, 2008 at 19:01:08 Pacific Subject: Bad memory? OS: xp home CPU/Ram: celeron/350mb Model/Manufacturer: gateway
Comment:
I originally posted this in "xp general" but now realize it's probably better off here.
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original Post:
"Hi. I have a big problem and its confusing. When i turn on my PC (my other one) It doesn't show anything on the monitor.
Before, I thought it might be a Power Supply problem, because there was absolutely no sounds from the PSU, but it apeared to be on because the green light come on, in the front of the PC. It apears to turn on and off normally, but no sounds at all, and nothing on the monitor.
(also i'd like to add i saw a spark from it a few times)
So i unpluged that power supply, and bought a brand new replacement Power Supply, online. It replaces the model # of my original.
So i plug it up, and hit the switch, Light comes on, and i actually hear the power humming now, and 2 beeping noise, every 8 seconds. --But still nothing shows on the monitor.
So now i know it HAS to be something other then the Power Supply...
I un-pluged everything.. HD, CD drive, snapped out the ram cards, ethernet card and then put it all back, thinking something might not have been pluged in all the way, but it still shows nothing.
There is a few things different about the new Power Supply though, it has a small connecter, a 4 way, square shaped, instead of straight & flat. It doesn't fit anywhere inside my PC. Also the HD plugs are P5 & P6, on my original it was P2 & P3.
Well.. can anyone make since of this based on what ive explain so far?
If you need specific details just ask."
**Updates**
Well i figured out 2 beeps means "bad memory".
>I tried a different monitor: still black screen, with beeps
>Tried onboard vid card instead of radeon card: still black, beeps
>Tried 4 different ram cards: all still give beeps & black screen
>tried different hard drive: still same
Now i've hit a dead end. Don't know what else i can try. I might try cleaning the inside of the Ram-slots that are on the mother board. Possibly dust in them.
Cross posting is a good way to get both your posts deleted.
Strip down your system to the bare minimum. Disconnect all drives (HDD, CD, floppy), unplug all external devices except keyboard. Remove ALL cards. Connect the monitor to the onboard graphics port. Remove all but one stick of RAM. Try again to boot & see if you can access the BIOS.
u better off buying a new motherboard....there are lots of good ones out there....
but before u do so, try to reset the bios setting by removing the Circle shaper battery and then placing it back....try it and hopefully u won't have to spend budget.
"...I thought it might be a Power Supply problem, because there was absolutely no sounds from the PSU, but it apeared to be on because the green light come on, in the front of the PC."
Failing power supplies are common and can cause your symptoms. Check your PS. See response 4 in this: http://www.computing.net/hardware/w... They often partially work, but do not allow the mboard to boot all the way.
"(also i'd like to add i saw a spark from it a few times)"
That's a likely an indication something is fried - you should never see sparks.
"....bought a brand new replacement Power Supply.." "So i plug it up, and hit the switch, Light comes on, and i actually hear the power humming now, and 2 beeping noise, every 8 seconds. --But still nothing shows on the monitor."
The mboard should beep only once if nothing is wrong. What the 2 beep pattern means varies. E.g. on some mboards with Award bioses 2 beeps means the video card is damaged or is not properly seated.
"So now i know it HAS to be something other then the Power Supply..."
No you don't. The sparks you saw probably indicate something was shorting. A PS that shorts, or any shorts anywhere inside your case, can do all sorts of damage. A PS that shorts while failing often damages components connected to it - the mboard, or cards in slots, or whatever. The fact the replacement PS allowed the computer to do different things also points to the first PS probably being faulty.
"There is a few things different about the new Power Supply though, it has a small connecter, a 4 way, square shaped, instead of straight & flat. It doesn't fit anywhere inside my PC. Also the HD plugs are P5 & P6, on my original it was P2 & P3."
PSs newer than your original one may have connectors your original PS did not have. If there is no place to plug it in, your mboard does not need that connector. You can ignore the labelling on the power connectors - their wiring is identical on all PSs.
" Well i figured out 2 beeps means "bad memory"."
Where did you find that info? Here's a way to find out for sure, if there's nothing wrong with anything else:
It is easy to test for incompatible ram, or damaged ram, that has caused your mboard to fail to boot.
Make sure you have a speaker or speakers connected to the mboard so you can hear mboard beeps (see your mboard manual). Remove the AC power to the case/power supply. Remove all the ram. Restore AC power. Try to boot. If nothing else is wrong, you will hear a pattern of beeps that indicate no ram is installed, or a ram problem. E.g. for an Award bios or a bios based on one, that's often a beep of about a half second, silence for a half second, a beep of about a half second, silence for a half second, continuously.
"Tried 4 different ram cards: all still give beeps & black screen"
Ram that works in another mboard , or any ram you buy or have lying around, may not work properly, or sometimes, not at all - even if it physically fits and is the right overall type (e.g. SDram, DDR, DDR2, etc.; PCxxxx, xxx mhz) for your mboard. In the worst cases of incompatibilty your mboard WILL NOT BOOT with it installed, and the mboard may not even beep - the ram has to be compatible with the mboard and it's chipset.
See response 5 in this for some info about ram compatibilty, and some places where you can find out what will work in your mboard for sure: http://www.computing.net/hardware/w... Correction to that: Mushkin www.mushkin.com ......
I think it's likely your original PS fried your mboard, or more, while failing. Usually that doesn't harm the ram or cpu or hard drive(s). I've seen them damage the floppy drive, optical drive(s), card in slots, mboard, in that order of frequency.
I did that. Same thing, so it can't be hardware conflicts.
I notice the PSU doesn't hum as loud as i originally thought, actually i don't think it's humming at all. But the fan is moving, so that's what i hear. I'm not sure if the PSU itself is suppose to make a humming sound or not.
I took the motherboard completely out and wiped dust of it etc. and blew air inside the ram stick ports to get any dust out.
None of that helped. Still 2 beeps every 8 seconds, and no monitor activity.
Thanks for the lengthy explanations. I'm kind of starting to lean towards the mboard being screwed aswell. That's what i feared. I wonder if it's possible to buy that exact one new or used, or one very similiar to it, over the internet.
Heres the link you asked for. (about the 2 beeps = bad memory)
What's the serial number (should be on a sticker on the side and/or back of the case) or the gateway part number of the motherboard so we can look it up. If the motherboard is bad your best bet for an exact replacement would be matching that part number on ebay.
What happened to the computer between the last time it worked OK and the first time it didn't?
It doesn't matter now but check the 115/230 voltage switch on the old PSU. Your description of its problem sounded like it may have been at 230 instead of 115. (You're in the US, right?)
Check that the cpu is firmly seated in its slot or socket and its cooling fan is attached and spinning.
I'll check for numbers soon, but for now i'll answer you're other questions.
It was working great for a long time, but then one time, it just shut down. As if it's power source just got cut off. I'd unhook the power cable in the back, then plug it back in, and it'd work again for a few days. Then it cut out again, and got more frequint. Then after it happen the last time, just never wanted to come back on. Well, it gave lights on the front, like my new one, but no beeps. During those times, i did notice the power supply box to be extremely hot, like, not touchable hot. The fan inside didn't work. my way around that was just to shut it off untill it was cold again. There is no fan inside the PC, so i kept the outter shell off to let air circulate around in there freely. That might have been a bad idea due to dust and whatnot.
but then i decided i'd clean the inside of the PS, so i unscrewed it, and there was alot of dust in there, and what looked like some black crusty stuff. Something was burning in there. Stupid me put it back together and just had to give it another go. It sparked. So i unpluged it and took it out and left it out for good. Then bought a new one.
I'd like to think that spark didn't fry anything else up, such as the motherboard, because, if the motherboard was fried, wouldn't it not work at all? it gives beeps, and knows if there are ram sticks connected or not, and gives light readings on the front of the PC.
I'm just speculating i guess. I don't know a whole lot about PCs, still learning. Maybe closing on advanced, but not expert.
Oh yeah and it was on 115, but i did notice that switch, and got curious. Tried it on the 230, nothing happen.
The CPU? i've never fooled with a processor, to be honest, i don't even know where it's at on the motherboard. I'm guessin it might be the inch long black flat chip with "intel" on it. I've never touched it so i doubt its loose or out of place.
The one time I had a PS set on 230 un-intentionally and attempted to boot a computer it did not boot. When I discovered it was on 230 and changed it back to 115 the computer booted fine. Having the switch on 230 didn't harm the PS or the mboard at all. However, I suspect the opposite - setting it to 115 in Europe where AC is 230 - would fry the mboard.
"The CPU? i've never fooled with a processor, to be honest, i don't even know where it's at on the motherboard."
It's the biggest single chip on the mboard, it is almost always in a socket so that it can be removed, and it's usually underneath the largest heatsink which usually has a fan attached to the top of it.
"...and what looked like some black crusty stuff...."
That may be (a) failed capacitor(s).
Open up your case and examine the mboard to see if you have bad capacitors, and/or other findable signs of mboard damage .
This was the original bad capacitor problem - has some example pictures. History of why the exploding capacitors and which mboard makers were affected: http://members.datafast.net.au/~dft...
If you found any evidence of bad capacitors or damage that you can physically see, your mboard is definately fried.
In this case, since it sounds like you had shorting going on, I recommend you test the hard drive(s), floppy drive, optical drive, cards in slots, and any other device in/on another computer. If you know anyone that can help you with that, get in touch with them. You can only test the cpu in a mboard it is compatible with, but as I've already said, there is often nothing wrong with it. The ram can only be successfully tested in a mboard it is compatable with. If it works in another mboard, then it's a sure thing there is nothing wrong with it, but if it doesn't work in another mboard, that does NOT necessary indicate the ram is bad. As I've already said, there is often nothing wrong with it.
Since you had shorts going on..... - Look at the contact edges on the ram modules to see if any contacts look scorched, or have black carbon deposits on them, or are missing, or have any other signs of damage - compare them to known working modules of the same type. - unplug the drives and look for similar damage on power connectors and drive sockets - unplug the main connector from the PS to the mboard and look for damage at the mboard socket, or in the connector from the original PS.
If the hard drive or more is/are dead or severly damaged, there may be no point in getting a used gateway mboard.
Go to the Gateway web site as DAVEINCAPS said in response 6. There should be something there that will help you identify your system. Once you know that you may be able to look a parts list and find the Gateway part number of the mboard. (it MAY also be on a label on tme mboard that has a bar code on it) You can search on the web using e.g. gateway (model number) motherboard or (mboard part number) motherboard or whatever.
Or
Gateway does not make the mboards in their systems - they are supplied to them by major mboard manufacturers. The mboard may be identical to a retail model sold by the mboard manufacturer, the only difference being it has a Gateway specified bios version on it, or it may be an OEM version that is supplied only to brand name system builders.
Look for obvious larger characters, often between the slots, or near the center of the mboard, that may be a model number. Some OEM mboards have no such model number, but many ones that are also sold retail by the mboard manufacturer do. ......
You only need the same mboard with a Gateway bios on it if you are still using the original Gateway software installation. If you installed Windows from a regular CD, you can use any mboard that is compatible with your cpu and ram that will fit in the case, but you may have to rig some customized wiring from the mboard to the case switch(es), leds, and case speaker. A mboard with the same main chipset will do you fine.
There were a few on ebay but they seemed kind of high--$30-$50 range for a socket 370 board. You'd need an exact replacement else your existing XP won't accept it.
I mentioned the voltage switch as I'd come across that before. If the switch is at 230 when it should be 115 the PSU supplies lower power. Depending on the computer hardware you might get a partial bootup for a few seconds but it won't get past a brief posting screen.
The crusty stuff might be a dielectric bonding material. Often high voltage components will have that added for more stability and insulation.
If possible swap out the cpu. If the memory error is an L1 cache memory error then replacing the cpu would probably fix it.
I couldn't find anything at gateway's site using that part number, which is odd as they're usually pretty good about support for older hardware. You might get better results using the serial number. Go here:
at ebay. I pretty positive it's the exact same one. unfortunatly i can't afford it at the moment. just lost my job and runnin short on cash. but thanks anyway to everyone who helped. I learned alot during this. =]
Yeah, that would be one. You should be able to get a generic socket 370 board as good as the gateway for next to nothing. In that case, at the very least you'd need to do an XP repair install. And if you only had the gateway restore disks they wouldn't be useable on a different motherboard.
It would have helped if you'd have told the WHOLE story right from the start. The fact that you had to unplug/replug the PSU to get the system to startup is the sign of a failing PSU. And since it was so hot it was "untouchable", it was obviously overheating because of the cooling fan not working. You should have stopped right there! But you continued...
"so i unscrewed it, and there was alot of dust in there, and what looked like some black crusty stuff. Something was burning in there. Stupid me put it back together and just had to give it another go. It sparked."
There you go. That spark probably fried something...board, CPU, who knows? It wasn't worth much anyway if that's any consolation.
