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about UPS

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Name: shvan
Date: December 12, 2005 at 10:03:06 Pacific
OS: win XP
CPU/Ram: celereon/256
Comment:

hi everybody>>>>>
i live in an area where a very long periods of power outage is usual.can i use a car battery with a charger instead of standard UPS battery to get 3 or more hours of operation.i think overheating is the major problem but a small fan may be enough.are there any other serious problems with this approach?.
Thanks



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Response Number 1
Name: ham30
Date: December 12, 2005 at 10:14:45 Pacific
Reply:

Charging a car battery indoors is not a good idea. They give off dangerous fumes.


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Response Number 2
Name: StuartS
Date: December 12, 2005 at 10:22:22 Pacific
Reply:

Yes, there are problems. A UPS includes an inverter which up's the battery voltage to mains voltage and converts the DC voltage from the battery to AC. You cannot run a desktop computer of a battery.

A UPS also has circuitry to automatically switch in the UPS when the mains power fails.

Anything but the most expensive UPS are are only designed to run a computer for a short period. A matter a minutes in some cases, just long enough to perform a graceful shutdown and not cut the computer of leaving it in an unknown state.

There is a lot more to a UPS than a rechargeable battery.

http://www.jetcafe.org/~npc/doc/ups-faq.html

Stuart


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Response Number 3
Name: Kurt S
Date: December 12, 2005 at 11:01:44 Pacific
Reply:

Stuart, I think he means he wants to run the UPS off of the car battery and not the small internal battery in the UPS.

A small fan would be a good idea. There should not be a problem with overheating as most decent UPS's have thermal protection in them so it will just shut down if it gets too hot.

You should get a lot more then 3 hours from a good car battery. We had a power outage last year that lasted a good portion of the night. I was able to run our stereo, table lamp and laptop for over 4 hours with a 1500 watt invertor. I could have gone longer but it was getting late and I went to bed. I was however using a high quality deep cycle battery, but a car battery will work just fine.


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Response Number 4
Name: StuartS
Date: December 12, 2005 at 11:24:50 Pacific
Reply:

Ah yes, I see, I misunderstood. The bigger the battery the better.

However bear in mind what Ham30 said. A lead/acid battery gives of explosive hydrogen gas when it is charging. It needs to be in a well ventilated place.

Stuart


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Response Number 5
Name: shvan
Date: December 12, 2005 at 12:37:17 Pacific
Reply:

thank u guys
it seems that i will do this, a fan for cooling and a good ventilation are easy to met.


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Response Number 6
Name: wibs
Date: December 12, 2005 at 14:44:40 Pacific
Reply:

Except that most UPSs for PCs use Ni-Cad batteries, which has a completely different charging method to Lead-Acid (one is constant current, the other constant voltage).

I would abandon this ill-concieved idea.

regards

Wibs


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Response Number 7
Name: Kurt S
Date: December 12, 2005 at 15:01:32 Pacific
Reply:

I have never seen a UPS that used NiCads. Constant current and constant voltage are ratings of power supplies, not batteries. Granted NiCads can handle low discharge currents better then SLA's for a longer period of time but as long as you charge them back up when the power comes on you will be fine.



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Response Number 8
Name: blackbill
Date: December 12, 2005 at 19:54:03 Pacific
Reply:

3 Car batteries and a power inverter will work fine... and if you get good quality batteries you could probably run for most of the day. If not then it won't hurt to add more batteries.

This will not have automatic features as in a true UPS. In other words it won't start automatically when your power goes... you will have to manually switch it over.

HAM is also very correct... when charging these batteries you need to be careful of the fumes that are created. Gel batteries would be safer but they would cost more (Gel batteries are like leadacid but they are used in things like emergency lighting, kids electric scooters...)



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Response Number 9
Name: RobertEL
Date: December 12, 2005 at 23:32:25 Pacific
Reply:

Yuh mean there are folks who will do ANYthing to keep that computer on?! Dont they have a life outside?

(tongue in cheek) Actually, we are too spoiled with technology. And when it goes down, we shut down too, dont know how to live.


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Response Number 10
Name: shvan
Date: December 13, 2005 at 06:43:33 Pacific
Reply:

actually what i have learned so far that most UPS's (including mine) use sealed lead-acid 12V batteries so substituting this with ordinary car battery will not harm the circuitry of the UPS except for the charging power which may be much more.and a good car battery charger connected to the battery along with UPS wires will solve the problem.as for hydrogen gas, a ventilation will do the job.


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Response Number 11
Name: schme
Date: January 2, 2006 at 18:37:15 Pacific
Reply:

I repair UPS units for a living. I have seen people do this before and I would urge caution in a few areas (I am not recommending this -- especially if you aren't sure what you are doing.) First (and this has already been mentioned), make sure to have the batteries well ventilated area, the batteries can explode from the hydrogen gas given off during charging / discharging. GEL cell batteries still give off hydrogen and won't work well in UPS units because of their design (they are designed for deep cycling and won't provide as much inrush power where AGM batteries are designed for floating with a full charge and will supply a large inrush.) Second, make sure you provide a proper fuse to the larger batteries and insure you have the correct voltage (i.e., if you have UPS which uses a 12 volt setup, use a 12 volt setup -- if you have multiple batteries, they must be connected in parallel for 12 volts or series for higher voltages.) If something goes wrong with the UPS and shorts, the batteries can leak, explode or start fires. If you have multiple car batteries, I can't stress how important a proper fuse is -- without it, wires can overheat and start fires. Smaller UPS units don't necessarly have fuses because there is not as much of a risk of fire since the batteries are smaller. The one problem that most people run into when they modify UPS units is that the charger in the UPS unit is not designed for larger batteries and can burn out with larger batteries (this happens mostly after a deep discharge and the power returns.) You might consider buying a UPS that is designed for larger batteries. See APC's Smart-UPS XL series. www.uninterruptiblesolutions.com has some refurbished Smart-UPS XL units that are cheaper that might work for what you need.


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