Name: RWD1996 Date: December 11, 2007 at 20:16:17 Pacific Subject: 1.4GHz CPU in Slot 1? OS: Windows XP Professional CPU/Ram: Pentium 3 400MHz / 384MB Model/Manufacturer: Homemade
Comment:
Someone gave me an old Gateway 4000510 WS440BX motherboard. It was made to use a slot 1 Pentium 3, but due to the P3 CPU I have being defective, I have a slot 1 P2 in now which works great. I've heard that it's possible to use a Celeron 1.4GHz or Pentium 3 1.4 GHz CPU with this motherboard using a Socket 370 to Slot 1 adapter. I've also heard that not all BX boards work well with this adapter. How do I know for sure whether or not it will work correctly? Also if it does work, will my power supply be adequate enough? Currently I'm using a 235W power supply. To me getting a P3 motherboard this old to recognize a 1.4GHz CPU sounds like a dream, but I'd like to know my chances are of it working correctly. Thanks!
Every nation needs to realize that there's a God in Heaven that's one day going to have them give an account for their actions, regardless of religion.
Forget the SlotWonder. For $150, you could buy a brand new mobo+cpu combo!
Instead, go to eBay, pick up an $8 Slocket plus a $20 Celeron 1.4GHz. Most 440BX boards run fine with Tualatin Celerons, as long as the BIOS is up to date.
Forget the P3-1400; that CPU uses a 133MHz bus, and the 440BX doesn't officially support 133MHz processors. Also, many (though not all) 440BX boards tend to have stability issues running Tualatin-S (512K cache) processors such as the P3-1400.
Your power supply will be fine with a 1.4GHz Celeron. That Celeron actually uses less power than a first-gen 450-600MHz P3!
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WOW jackbomb, I didn't know that 1.4GHz Celerons use less power than the first-generation Celerons. That was the answer I was looking for. While WebsWonder was very helpful, I can't afford $150 right now, but $40 or so for the slocket and celeron I can afford. Thank both of you for your advice! I think my friend gave me a real gem. I've heard these 440BX boards are pretty rock solid, and you can update them in quite a few different ways.
Every nation needs to realize that there's a God in Heaven that's one day going to have them give an account for their actions, regardless of religion.
BTW do you think I'll have to reinstall Windows XP if I just take the P2 out and put the Slocket and Celeron in and turn the PC back on?
Every nation needs to realize that there's a God in Heaven that's one day going to have them give an account for their actions, regardless of religion.
All you'd need to do is attach the Lin-Lin to the Slocket, and then mount the Celeron on the Lin-Lin. The New Furnace, replacing Lennox G12 Trane XV90i 2 stage furnace 112,000 BTUs 92.5% efficient Direct venting Variable speed fan Trane XL600 thermostat CleanEffects air cleaner
my experience of 'Slotkets' (the name for these Slot 1 to Socket 370 convertors) is some work quite well and others do not. I have had very good results with those made by MSI (they have printed on them MS followed by 4 numbers) but other unknown makes have been troublesome. The MSI ones I have had have also got voltage adjustment jumpers on them so you can overclock more easily, eg. a celeron 566mhz (very very cheap) which should run at 66mhz can be set on the slotket to run at 100mhz fsb, up the voltage slightly and it runs great at 850mhz for example. So be warned, not all Slotkets are as good as eachother.
Thanks alot cliffpage, I will definitely take that into consideration.
Every nation needs to realize that there's a God in Heaven that's one day going to have them give an account for their actions, regardless of religion.
If you want to do this just because you want to do it, go ahead, but there are other newer used mboards that are more worth spending your money on.
Try searching the web for info about using a slotket with the WS440BX - sometimes there are "hits" that tell you a particular slotket model works for what you want to do.
Your bottlenecks are the max bus speed the mboard runs at - probably 66mhz or 100mhz - even if the slotket can multiply the bus speed the cpu won't perform as well as it does at the speed it was designed for - and the max UDMA the mboard supports - probably UDMA33, maybe UDMA66 - I know from trying a PCI hard drive controller card in older mboards the card will not run any faster UDMA than the mboard will let it.
Thanks Tubesandwires for that tip. I am wanting to update it because I use the computer very regularly. It seems like it would be quite faster to me after experiencing 400MHz, then jumping up to 1.4GHz. I don't really care that much whether or not I have any bottlenecks. If it's even a tad faster, I'll be happy with it. In fact I'm already happy with it, but I want to see how much faster I can get it to run. A 1.4GHz Celeron seems like it'll do the trick. The problem with new PCs to me is that they seem to not last as long as their predocessors. I got a Pentium 1 in 2002 that someone gave to me. It was dated to 1996 according to a stamp on the case. I built an AMD Sempron system in 2005, and within a year the floppy drive controller, PS/2 controllers and the USB controllers were all bad and wouldn't function correctly. The Pentium 1 on the other hand was still as rock solid as the day it was given to me 4 years earlier. Thanks for the replies, guys, you've all been so very helpful.
Every nation needs to realize that there's a God in Heaven that's one day going to have them give an account for their actions, regardless of religion.
I don't think the quality of newer mboards is any worse than older ones for the vast majority of them, with the exception of mboards that unknowingly used defective capacitors that eventually fail. Other than that, I've never had a mboard that had an actual faulty floppy controller (the problem was always a faulty data cable or a damaged floppy drive) or faulty PS/2 port circuits (the problem was always broken wires inside the cable, or a faulty mouse or keyboard, or a broken port), and I've only encountered one mboard where the USB controllers failed, probably caused by a voltage surge or spike that computer wasn't protected from.
One thing that has changed is there are a lot more "el-cheapo" PSs in many newer computers that are more likely to fail, and when they do, they are more likely to damage the mboard or anything on it or connected to it (e.g. Emachines with Bestec PSs especially). Older PSs are more likely to give you no problems, other than you may need to keep an eye on the fan in them as some didn't have ball bearings.
In addition to that are the usual things.... If a computer and everything connected to it isn't protected from damage caused by voltage surges and spikes, any mboard can be damaged by them. If you don't remove the AC to an ATX PS connected to an ATX mboard, you can damage the mboard or any component or card or ram when you plug in or unplug anything because the mboard is always powered in some places. If you have a static buildup problem, any component on the mboard or connected to it can be damaged by a static discharge if you don't take the proper precautions.
The mboard on the computer I am using to type this is an Epox MVP3-G5 made in late 1999, with a K6-III 450 on it, and it has been excellent. At the time i bought it I looked at BX mboards and passed on them because the cpus were no faster at the time, the K6-III has the advantage of the L2 cache on the mboard acting as a L3 cache, and this mboard has UDMA66 whereas most BX mboards had UDMA33.
That sounds like a neat setup. You've made good points, but how many old PCs from the 90s have regular cases with freezes or lockups under Windows 2000/XP due to bad RAM or other hardware problems? Yes there were and still are all kinds of freezes with those motherboards, particularly with some Windows 98 and ME users. But I have 4 motherboards laying around that date back to the 90s, and the other 2 PCs that I have that are from 2003 and later have had problems with bad RAM, freezeups, and power supply problems before. The PC I referred to in reponse 11, the PS/2 mouse/keyboard controllers never worked even with other mice, keyboards. They would never even work in the BIOS. This happened after I plugged my digital camera in to download pictures. The same camera works in other PCs.
The power supply was one of the PC components that I was referring to when I mentioned that PCs were made better in the 90s. I have a newer power supply that was already starting to fail when I bought it (DEC 05). On the other hand, the power supply from my P1 system is still going strong, and it has even been on over 2 months at a time without the need to restart it.
No argument intended, it dawned on me that you might disagree with me after I posted it. But I'm just stating my own personal experience and I know you are too (no harm intended). Some people tend to run into more newer boards that have faulty RAM, freeze-ups, etc, than others do. Happy Holidays to everyone on computing.net. :)
A thing I forgot to mention about the Epox MVP2-G5 is it has a 2mb L2 cache chip. On those mboards that had the L2 cache chip, which used cpus that had no built in L2 cache with the exception of the K6-III, the size of the L2 cache chip determines how much ram can be cached by the mboard - in the case of a 2mb chip that's 512mb. Most other mboards at the time had a 1mb or 512mb L2 - older mboard had even less, and some el-cheapo models no L2 cache at all. That wasn't a problem at the time because ram was expensive enough that most people couldn't afford to fill the slots to the maximum capacity anyway (I had 64mb at first for 98SE), but became a problem later on especially after XP came out because if you install more ram than the L2 chip can cache NONE of it is cached - you take about a 25% ram performance hit. Some of the MVP3 and MVP4 mboards were originally specified to take a max 128mb in each slot, but it turned out they support 256mb in each slot, if you use certain 16 chip (8 on each side) modules.
I say bad ram is extremely rare because i have NEVER encountered ANY that is actually bad, on 50 or so mboards I've dealt with personally, at least not since SIMM modules came out. I've always been able to get ram that worked fine previously to work fine again, either by simply re-seating the ram, or by doing that and cleaning the contacts on the modules. It's more likely for there to be something wrong with the mboard than it is for the ram to actually be bad. If you are trying to use ram that is not actually compatible with your mboard, you WILL have problems with it, sooner or later, if it works at all. It is certainly possible for ram to be damaged by something external to it or by something the user did, and be bad because of that, but I've never encountered that myself.
"The PC I referred to in reponse 11, the PS/2 mouse/keyboard controllers never worked even with other mice, keyboards. They would never even work in the BIOS. This happened after I plugged my digital camera in to download pictures. The same camera works in other PCs."
When you have problems when something more sophisticated such as a camera or printer or all in one or scanner is connected via USB, the problem almost always has nothing to do with the mboard itself - it's usually because of problems in Windows itswelf or with settings in your bios Setup and you can tshoot the problem.
First things: - some USB connected devices will not work at all or will not work properly connected to a USB hub, even if it is a powered hub that can supply the required 500ma to all ports - that is, a hub with two or more ports that connect to one mboard USB port connection. If you are trying to connect through a hub like that, try connecting directly to a mboard USB port instead and the device may be recognized fine. - similarly, the wiring from mboard headers to some case front USB ports or wiring adapters for ports in plates installed in a slot or USB ports in case front ports of any kind (some in drive bays are actualy hubs of the type above) , the wiring can be inadequate to support USB 2.0 and a device that wants to use USB 2.0 plugged into such a port will not work properly, yet it works fine plugged into a port directly connected to the mboard. - some older mboards have both USB 1.x only and USB 2.0 controllers, and some ports that are USB 1.x only and some that are USB 2.0, backward compatible in theory with USB 1.x. - Some devices meant to be used with USB 2.0 will not actually work in USB 1.x ports, and the USB 1.x device support of some USB 2.0 controllers is sometimes not actually 100%.
If those things have been taken into consideration and still you have a problem, then there is other tshooting you can do.
Just yesterday I fixed a problem a friend had - he bought a new Kodak 5100 All in One and his computer (Intel D850MV) wouldn't recognize it properly. I took the 5100 home and tried setting it up on another computer - it installed and was recognized fine (Via chipset, Via USB, on an Asus A7V600). The USB 2.0 controllers on his computer have an NEC chipset which is known to be more reliable at detecting USB devices than some other chipsets, so that probably wasn't the problem (older Via and Ali USB chipsets may have problems). Amongst other things I looked on the Usbman site at t-shooting suggestions - he said sometimes a more sophisticated USB connected device will not be recognized properly even if simpler USB devices work otherwise if ANY of the USB controllers or other USB controlling devices share an IRQ with another device. I looked at System Info on his computer, and sure enough, one IRQ was shared with an Audigy sound card. I moved the Audigy card one slot space away from the mboard center, and it no longer shared an IRQ with any USB controller.
Usbman also said you must get the operating system to re-load the USB stack after you cure a USB sharing problem and he tells you how to go about it for various op systems. In XP I found this worked fine: I didn't have to go into Safe mode. Unplugging all USB devices removes their entries from Device Manager (you may need to connect a PS/2 connected keyboard and/or a PS/2 or Serial connected mouse temporarily), then you Un-install all the entries listed under Universal Serial Bus Controllers in Device Manager, Reboot, the USB stack is rebuilt automatically, and in my case, the 5100 AiO was recognized fine. If something like that doesn't work for you Usbman has lots of other things you can try.
You can have all sorts of conflict problems, hidden (often) or reported (sometimes, in System Information or Device Manager) if anything shares an IRQ with any USB controller or USB to anything device under Universal Serial Bus Controllers, or your video card, and you should never install a card in the first PCI slot (at the middle of the mboard end) if you can help it - it is forced to share it's IRQ with the video.
I too have and have had PSs from old computers including from XTs that still work.
I have encountered drives and cards damaged by PSs failing that may appear at first to be okay but they are not. Most frequently floppy drives have been damaged - their led usually still lights, yet the drive won't recognize a floppy disk, or sometimes it just won't format - the floppy controller may appear to be dead, but if you try the floppy drive in another computer it doesn't work in the other computer either. Second most encountered is damaged CD or DVD drives - their led usually still lights, yet the drive won't recognize a CD or DVD, or sometimes it just won't burn - if you try the drive in another computer it doesn't work in the other computer either. Third most often, damaged video cards and dial-up modems - if they work at all the video card develops artifacts sooner or later, the modem won't connect, even if they appear fine in Device Manager - some may assume their PCI slots are no good. Overheating inside the case, such as from a PS fan that failed, often kills optical drives similarly first if it isn't discovered in a short time.
Hey, Tubesandwires, thanks for the reply. I was wondering how one would go about resetting the USB controllers. However, I am 100% positive that the problems that I had, the PS/2 mouse/keyboard not working and the USB Controllers not working was because of the motherboard going bad. I know this because the digital camera was working fine the day before in the same USB slot. I never changed any settings or installed any programs. Secondly, the POST would freeze when initializing the USB Controllers, regardless of whether or not any USB devices were plugged in, regardless of whether or not they were plugged in directly to the motherboard, and regardless of whether or not the USB controller was disabled in the BIOS. This occurred also after clearing the CMOS. Not only would I have no mouse or keyboard in Windows, but also when running Freespire. Now everything is fine since I installed a new motherboard of a similar model in the same case.
I don't want to turn this into an argument, I'm just stating my opinion of the matter. I still think older PCs are better in terms of their stability. If you disagree with me, that's perfectly fine.
Every nation needs to realize that there's a God in Heaven that's one day going to have them give an account for their actions, regardless of religion.
"I was wondering how one would go about resetting the USB controllers."
The settings for the controllers.
"...the digital camera was working fine the day before in the same USB slot...."
That you didn't say previously.
Mboards that worked fine in the first place extremely rarely spontaneously go bad, unless they have the defective capacitor probem - it's almost always something external that has damaged them, often a faulty PS, or a power spike or surge - but there have been a few threads here lately (three?) I've seen about USB controllers gone wonky on recent mboards - they got a message about USB overcurrent when nothing was connected to the USB ports or USB headers on the mboard, and in one case, even when the USB controllers were disabled in the bios Setup. Some case USB port or add on USB adapter wiring is incompatible with some USB mboard header pins and can generate the false overcurrent message, but there should be no message when nothing was connected to the USB ports or USB headers on the mboard.
The more info you supply about a problem and what you tried and what happened previously the better. Supply as much detail as you can think of, and check your post to make sure what you are saying is clearly stated before you submit it. You can always Edit your own posts on this site if you need to, if you do it within a reasonable amount of time from when it was first posted.
Yep, that's a great idea, and that's what I do. The original post had nothing to do with the AMD Sempron problem. If it was, I would have posted all of the details. I mentioned the AMD Sempron problem to put across in a better way my opinion.
I'd seen some others but they were only 'buy it now' for $60 - $70. So far this one is much less and will probably go for not much more than its current bid.
Edit Post back here if you're going to bid on it. I'm thinking about bidding on it myself if it stays low but I won't bid if you want it.
Hey DAVEINCAPS! Thanks for that. No, you go ahead and bid on it if you want, I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with the same machine (random restarts, etc). I have a thread going on in the General Hardware forum. After I get it sorted out I may look into it. But you go ahead and bid on it if you want.
I gave it some thought but decided against it. I've got enough computer stuff around here and shouldn't be loading up on more. It did only get that one bid and went for $9.50.
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