I have plans of playing GTA (3 and possibly vice city) on an 866mhz P3 which i could upgrade to 1ghz. I need anew video card but cant decide between 2. THe GeForce 4 and the Radeon 9800. I have found these on ebay for under $20. Which is better ( i keep shadows turned off)?. Or if there is something better than either in the same price range.

Thanks

Tony

There's a BIG difference between the Geforce4 series and the 9800 series in performance (probably big difference between ebay prices too?).

Go for the 9800 if you can, if it has to be a Geforce4, make sure it's a Ti, not an MX.
Why not consider the Radeon 9550 (128-bit version), 9600pro/xt or a Geforce FX 5900xt..

Anyway..

My Geforce4 runs GTA3 and Vice City at 1280x1024 32-bit with draw distance turned up to maximum with great framerates but it's not a DX9 card, so i'm probably missing out on some of the eye candy.

I bought my current card with GTA Vice City in mind a few weeks before it was released after struggling with a Geforce2 MX200 32mb.

I'm contemplating buying a new card for GTA San Andreas to be released on June 10th (or the 7th if you live in the USA)

The problem with your current system is that it doesn't meet the bare requirements for the processor. A 1GHz processor won't really make that much difference.

If you're on a really tight budget, you could get a cheapish socket A motherboard (Preferably Nforce2, but not essential) and a Sempron (2600+ for example) and maybe a Radeon 9550 128mb, 128-bit. you'll probably need some PC2700 DDR ram too. Should cost no-more than about £120 all in.

Try here:
www.ebuyer.com (UK/USA)
www.newegg.com(USA)
www.overclockers.co.uk (UK)

THanks for the quick reply. Now a few things....

1) I looked at the specs of the 9550 and it looked to be not as good as the 9800 (9800= 256 bit) The 9800 and 9600 seem to be similar. IS the 9800 better?

2) How come the GeForce 4 is not as good as the Radeon? Also, is this Geforce 4 TI too good to be true? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=40161&item=5202160718&rd=1

3) I guess anything would be a good upgrade from my current setup (500mhz slot 1 P3 100mhz PSB, Geforce 2 MX 32mb). my new setup is a socket 370 with now a 866 P3 with 133mhz FSB. All i need is thermal paste so i can use my 866 at a good temp.

All in all, i love the GTA series and have all 3 for PS2. I guess i can run 3 and vice city on my new setup. And if i tried to run san andreas, could i make it tolerable if i put a 1ghz and turned every visual off or to the lowest (including resolution).

But the most important thing i want to know is which card is the best for around $25?

Thanks!!

Make sure you have a AGP slot on your motherboard as well if you dont plan on getting a new rig. Your system sounds like it might have a 4X AGP slot.. at the most.. if any.. If you dont have one then that will greatly downgrade the performance of any games you play even with a PCI graphics card.

of course it has an AGP slot, Im using an AGP Geforce 2 in it now

9800 is best, but it's wasted on your current system.

Geforce4 is an older generation card.

The 9800 was designed to compete with the Geforce5 series (Called FX series) the 9800 was designed to compete with the FX5800 and FX 5900/5950 series (Flagship models)

The 9800 was regarded as better than anything in the Geforce FX range

The Geforce4 (Ti) series is DirectX 8.1 compliant and doesn't have hardware support for DirectX 9.0 features. I think the MX is only DirectX 7.0

The 9800 & 9600 Radeons are DirectX 9 as is the GeforceFX (Geforce5 series) although the FX5200 and FX5500 are rubbish with DirectX 9 because they are slow.

Latest Generation (2004-2005):
DirectX 9/9c

256-bit:
Radeon X800 = Geforce 6800 (Flagship cards)
128-bit:
Radeon X700 = Geforce 6600 (Mid-range)

Previous Generation (2003-2004):
DirectX 9/9b

256-bit:
Radeon 9800 = GeforceFX5800/5900 (Flagship)
128-bit:
Radeon 9600 = GeforceFX5600/5700 (Midrange)
64/128-bit:
Radeon 9200 = GeforceFX5200/5500 (Rubbish)

Even earlier generation (2002-2003):
DirectX 8/8.1

Radeon 9700 = Geforce4Ti4800 (Flagship)
Radeon 9500 = Geforce4Ti4600 (Mid-high)
Radeon 9000 = Geforce4Ti4400 (Midrange)
Radeon 8500 = Geforce4Ti4200 (Midrange)
Radeon 7200 = GeforceMX440 (Average)

The Geforce4 Ti is comparable to the FX5600 in performance terms, but doesn't support Dx9. The 9800 eats the flagship FX5900 for breakfast, so is far superior to the Geforce4.

AMD AthlonXP 2200+
Abit NF7-S v2.0
Geforce4 Ti4200 128mb
1GB Crucial PC2700
80GB & 120GB SATA HDD's
SB Audigy2 ZS
XP Pro + SP2

Sorry, forgot to mention; the Ti series Geforce4 is 128-bit, i'm not sure about the MX though??

For your current setup, the Ti on Ebay would do nicely and run any GTA title comfortably (Minus the Dx9 features) but San Andreas won't be much fun with all the graphics turned down because of a weak processor?!?.

Might as well get it for the PS2 or Xbox.

The 9800 would be restricted and bottle-neck on my system and my processor runs at 1.8Ghz, so would be really really overkill on your current system. I doubt you'd get a 9800 for $20 unless it's faulty.

AMD AthlonXP 2200+
Abit NF7-S v2.0
Geforce4 Ti4200 128mb
1GB Crucial PC2700
80GB & 120GB SATA HDD's
SB Audigy2 ZS
XP Pro + SP2

Also... The 9550 is a new entry-level card, it's loosely based on the 9600 and is slightly slower than a 9600pro but is great value for money. Make sure it's 128-bit, not 64-bit though.

The X-series 9600 and 9800 come in different specs too;

XT = Fastest
Pro = about 5% slower than XT
SE = Slow 'Sucker Edition'

The current Geforce cards come in:

Ultra = fastest
GT = Slightly slower than Ultra

FX come in:

Ultra = Fastest
XT = Budget version
LE = 'Loser edition'

AMD AthlonXP 2200+
Abit NF7-S v2.0
Geforce4 Ti4200 128mb
1GB Crucial PC2700
80GB & 120GB SATA HDD's
SB Audigy2 ZS
XP Pro + SP2

Not bad Snoop, but I have to take issue with a couple of the things on this list:

"Radeon 9700 = Geforce4Ti4800 (Flagship)
Radeon 9500 = Geforce4Ti4600 (Mid-high)
Radeon 9000 = Geforce4Ti4400 (Midrange)
Radeon 8500 = Geforce4Ti4200 (Midrange)
Radeon 7200 = GeforceMX440 (Average)"

- the Radeon 9000 is a stripped down version of the 8500 & doesn't compare to the Ti4400. It's competiton was the MX440.

- the MX440 is more closely matched to the Radeon 7500 & 9000. The Radeon 7200 lags way behind all of these.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021218/vgacharts-05.html

Asus A7N8X-X
1800+ @ 8.5 x 200MHz
768MB PC3200
Asus A9550 128MB/128-bit
Gamer Edition
WinME/WinXP Pro

Thanks for all of the info, but i need to make sure i have
inturprated it correctly. here is the list as i have infered it
in order form best to worst

1) 9800
2) 9700
3) 9600
4) Geforce 4 TI (higher 4xxx number is better)

But the 9800 wont keep up with my CPU well. But will it
still work as well as the others. And could you correct my
list. I want to get the highest up one i can get cheap.

What they're saying is this:

9800 is fastest card you've been considering by a long shot, but in the end, it won't matter which card you put in until you upgrade the rest of your system.

It's sorta like wanting to drag race, so you add a spoiler and lower your Dodge Neon to the ground, and expect to run as fast as a Mustang when you haven't changed your engine out. Sorry, buddy, but the spoiler and lower ride alone don't solve the problem. ;-)

Thanks Jam, I knew that the list was probably wrong somewhere, i'm not really up on older Radeons, i've had Nvidia cards since 3DFX went down the slippery slope.

But that insight makes me cringe when I think that I nearly bought a Radeon 9000 128mb instead of my Ti4200?!?!?

I think the 9000 was slightly more expensive at the time, so I went for the cheaper Geforce option. Now, I can barely find any references to the 9000 as if it's been erased from ATi's history.

AMD AthlonXP 2200+
Abit NF7-S v2.0
Geforce4 Ti4200 128mb
1GB Crucial PC2700
80GB & 120GB SATA HDD's
SB Audigy2 ZS
XP Pro + SP2

That's because some things are better forgotten. ;-)

"It's like Gomer Pyle in Bangkok!"

I have a radeon X800 256MB and after new drivers and giving them all info the game strill looks crap and the characters are missing. Dont buy until its fixed on pc

more here:
http://forums.techguy.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2698208

my e-mail

Amongst others my greatest problem is the lack of character skinning, did you guys even test this at all, or just port it from the X-Box and ask for some money.

As this is a PC game I cant get my cash back from the shop, but I will makes sure that I and my friends never buy another game from yourselves again until at least the first patch has been released, by which time I will probably have spent my money on something else anyway.

Way to loose a follower of the GTA series since 1996.

I wont go on, its just a waste of my time and yours.

Can I get a refund from Rockstar, as you have sold me something that does not work, and my system exceeds your requirements?

Kind Regards,

Hans.