Hi everyone, I'd like some thoughts on my situation. I've got myself a slightly aging system here (or very aging system, depending who you ask). I've got an AMD 2600 XP Barton, 512mb RAM and a 128 Radeon 9000. I'm beginning to notice that the newer (cpu intense) games such as the Doom 3 and BF2 demos are barely playable on my system. I want to upgrade but I honestly don't think I play enough to warrant a major expense. To get the 6600GT, I'd have to upgrade my power supply, which in total would be a $270-300 CDN expense (about $230-260USD). However there's a sale at a local retailer for a 128 Radeon 9600XT AIW for $150CDN, which I don't think would required me the added expense of upgrading my PSU. I'm not that interested in the multimedia functions of the card, but I can see how they'd com in handy. I guess my question is, would the jump from a 9000 to a 9600XT be noticable in playability of newer games and faster smoother graphics on games that play just fine on my system (HL2, etc) to even warrant the $150? Or will the 6600GT be the bare minimum for this sort of thing. Keep in mind I'm a casual gamer and not extremely interested in the highest framerates or smoothest graphics (although that would be nice).

The kicker to all this is that, it will be penny wise pound foolish to upgrade to another AGP card considering you have a platform (Athlon XP) that already ran it's course.

While not bite the bullet and do a whole upgrade, you can still get something for your current components if you put it up for sale.

My sig is on sabbatical.

Those aren't so most CPU intense games as they are GPU (graphics) intense games, & the R9000 is a weak outdated card that doesn't support DX9. The R9600XT would be an excellent choice. If you don't need the extra features of the AIW card, you should be able to get a "plain" R9600XT for about $100, then with the $50 you'd be saving, you could add another 512MB of RAM.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1476658&CatId=0

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

I got an aopen 6600GT and I run it on my older 300W power supply with no problem at all.
Are you sure you need a increased power supply for the GT cards?
Sarosh.

I don't think a full upgrade is worth my while right now as my computer is fine for 80% of what I do with it (internet, word processing, divx movies and shows). I think an upgrade is in the cards in another year or so, but not yet.

I was looking for a straight 9600XT as well and saw this particular one. Maybe that's the better option. Although I've also seen a a Sapphire 9600PRO 256 for the same price at a local shop. I understand that the performance differences between the 9600XT and 9600PRO and the 256mb of RAM may extend it's life a little.

I'm actually not absolutely sure that my current PSU won't be able to handle the addition of a 6600GT, but the little bit of research I've done suggests it's not. I'm running two HDs, two disk drives as well from a 350w Startech (Canadians should know this Generic brand) with 15a at the 12v rail. The requirements on the manufacturer's pages suggest that it meets the minimum, but most advice I've read suggests that at least 400w is what I should be at (and 18a at the 12v rail, apparently). For me though, it's all guessing at this point, that why I'm asking for advice.

256MB is unnecessary with any of the 9600 varities...if you check the benchtests comparisons, you'll find that in most cases, the 128MB beats the 256MB version. Also, the 9600Pro is nothing more than a hopped up 9600. The 9600XT is totally different & uses a different GPU (graphics processing unit) than the 9550/9600/9600Pro. The 9600XT's architecture is superior.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031015/index.html

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

$230-260USD for a power supply?

I see them for a lot less here,
below $100 CDN

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProdList&cmd=pl&id=PS.808

98% of the population is asleep. The other 2% are staring around in complete amazement, abject terror, or both.

Both cards are good choices for your system.

The 6600GT supports some additional graphics features, which will be significant with new games coming out.

Can you locate a 6600 plain at a good price? That would match your system very well at an attractive price.

Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina.

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I got an aopen 6600GT from www.pricewatch.como for 108$ only.
It was refurbished, but works great.
I consider it a geat deal.

Sarosh

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102583

Nobody asked but I'll trow out you could get an X700 for $104 here in the states, I think you mentioned being in canada which newegg doesn't deliver to but for the price I think its one of the best cards (Got mine for $90 refurbrished). It maybe abit of overkill for your machine though in which case go with the 9600XT and throw that other $50 to another stick of Ram.

Doug

Windows Xp Pro x64
AMD Sempron 3000+ 1.8ghz
1 Gig Ram pc2700
Nforce 4 Motherboard
Radeon X700 256mb
Realtek Ac 97 Onboard Audio
Thermaltake 430W Power Supply

I've looked at both an X700 and a non-GT 6600 as well. Both are only slightly less than I can get a 6600GT for (about $170-180CDN) and I have a feeling that I'd have to upgrade my PSU with those as well (which would be an extra $60-90CDN for a quality PSU that would last me a little while.

I guess it's really a matter of whether I will notice enough of a difference between my 9000 (which has held up pretty well considering it's age) and a 9600XT on the games that have coming out in the last while to tie me over for the next half a year until I want to invest another few hundred in my system. Or am I only going to see an appreciable change and be able to play the latest games at a reasonable level if I splurge for a 6600GT?

If you Are Canadian like me, and you live near a future shop, listen close.

The AWI 9800 PRO 128mb (basiclay this is the RADEON 9800 PRO -r350 chipset- +cool ass TV options) competitive to the NV35 aka FX5800 is now on sale for a bargan $199.00 CND thats in the store off the shelf, the FX5600 is still $209.99 and its a far less card then this one.

I blew my card, jam seen my posts in the OC'rs forum, so I have to buy plus I'm a huge gamer:
Rainbow6 3
Americas Army
Doom 3
SOF 2
JK2
q3
list goes on, I'm impressed with the stat of the 9800 and trust me, BF2 and DOOM3 run fine on my gf4 mx440 before I blew it up, what you need is tweak guides and some configs. b00mH34d5h0+ k, gg.

Unitam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant

Dude, I'll say it again...the R9000 is a WEAK, OUTDATED card that does NOT support DX9. Just about any 128MB/128-bit DX9 compatible AGP card will spank the crap out of it! You WILL see a HUGE performance difference if you upgrade. Here's a list (subject to approval by my comrades) by price:

Radeon 9550
Radeon 9600XT
GeForce 6600
Radeon X700
GeForce 6600GT

Check these BF2 benchtest comparisons:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/2005-17gpu_8.html

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

The 9800 Pro HAS to be plugged into the PSU...the cards listed above do not

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

The 6600GT doesn't have to be directly plugged in? I thought it had to be. Is that the cut-off for a PSU/powerload of my type? Anything that doesn't have to be directly plugged in is probably OK?

Sorry I should have mentioned that, I belive I did, the "price" $199.00:

If I had $600+ to spend on one component trust me my flavour would be the NVidia 6800GT or better. I was offering a suggestion thats well within price range and about the .

And Where in the name of god did you get the R9000 out of AIW 9800 PRO, then rant about DX9:

SmartShader™ 2.1 offers complete DirectX® 9.0 support, enabling cinematic quality lighting effects

http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9800/aiw9800pro/features.html

Jam seriously you gotta help people here not push your personal taste.

Unitam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant

If you worried about spending for a PS, then go to Tigerdirect. They have a 500w Enermax unit for $80. Not too shabby and has good reviews.

home page was hijacked byhttp://magicsearch.try this, if you have any backupregistry data files,merge them in to current , or if you have several , i did. i merged about 5 or six. rebboot. it has been

"And Where in the name of god did you get the R9000 out of AIW 9800 PRO, then rant about DX9."

Read the original posting...

"I've got an AMD 2600 XP Barton, 512mb RAM and a 128 Radeon 9000."

He was answering this person's question on if the 9600 would give him a good performance advantage over his current card.

"Jam seriously you gotta help people here not push your personal taste."

And you need to read the whole thread before you slam someone while coping an attitude with someone who has given good advice here for quite sometime.

Help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. Please donate to the American Red Cross.

www.redcross.org

"And you need to read the whole thread before you slam someone while coping an attitude with someone who has given good advice here for quite sometime."

I step up to the plate when I want. I've been here since 02. gg

next:

He was answering this person's question on if the 9600 would give him a good performance advantage over his current card.

jam "The 9800 Pro HAS to be plugged into the PSU...the cards listed above do not"

- Who doesnt have that 1 extra molex to plug into the card how hard is that really?

ok now come the end of the thought process with me. Jam slams the 9600 then lists off 1 card that performs worse, and another 9600 after dissing its DX although it has simplified DX. Then 2 cards that you would purchase if you were to upgrade your entire system, and if you were to go that far you might aswell grab the 6800gt pci-e.

The poster suggests he/she is Canadian, I gave the best value + performance card on the market in Canadian dollars you can find in a major retail outlet, that matches the users system without considering a total overhaul.

Now, if you could politely take your head out of your ass, step off my case, and use the forms for helping out the original poster and playing Daddy to jam I'm sure he's a big boy. Unless you are jam......

Unitam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant

"Who doesnt have that 1 extra molex to plug into the card how hard is that really?"

The original poster mentions he doesn't want to have to buy a new power supply. Generally speaking, if you need to plug the video card into the power supply, you generally need a better power supply than cards that don't require a direct power connection from the power supply.

In his situation...

"I'm running two HDs, two disk drives as well from a 350w Startech (Canadians should know this Generic brand) with 15a at the 12v rail."

That means there's an exceptionally good chance he needs something more than his current power supply for a card like the 9800 Pro since with all those drives, he's probably at his limit right now with what he has. Again, had you read more closely, you might have been able to see this.

"Jam slams the 9600 then lists off 1 card that performs worse, and another 9600 after dissing its DX although it has simplified DX."

He slammed the 9000, not the 9600. Read again!

"I gave the best value + performance card on the market in Canadian dollars you can find in a major retail outlet, that matches the users system without considering a total overhaul."

You're not factoring in he would need a better power supply, and considering the games he wants to play, he may not need the 9800 Pro's power. Regardless, that's for him to decide.

Jam's points are perfectly valid, and he certainly was not pushing his personal preferences.

Help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. Please donate to the American Red Cross.

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ok, I wont stoke your flaming love for jam anymore then to drop the bottom line.

A 9800 PRO is todays best value for this user, you only need on CD-ROM pluged in on any given occasion if a PSU will put you at that far.

To end this sissy fest, my advice to the original poster is get the 9800 pro bud, you won regret it.

Any more 'I'm here to protect jam' posts will be ignored.

heropsycho2177 aka jam... been here since 02, put that under your hat.

Unitam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant

LOL! I am jam, hero is hero...were are not one & the same! We do seem to be on the same page quite often & have backed each other up on several occasions, but we don't see eye-to-eye on everything.

I thought I explained myself pretty clearly about these card choices though. The original poster said he has a Radeon 9000 & one of his concerns about upgrading is his power supply. He mentioned both the 9600XT & the 9600PRO. The two cards are different & if you'd taken the time to check the Tom's Hardware link I provided, the differences are explained. The 9600XT might be considered a 9600PRO/9800XT hybrid.

The 9550 is nothing more than an underclocked 9600...the 9600PRO is basically an overclocked 9600. The only differences are the clock settings & probably different RAM. But the GPUs & number of pipes are the same. The 9600XT uses a different GPU & is more advanced than the rest of the 9600 family. I see no reason to buy a 9600 when a 9550 is cheaper & all you'd have to do is overclock it to 9600 settings. And I see no reason to go for a 9600PRO when the 9600XT is only a few bucks more & is a superior piece of hardware. TigerDirect (Canada) has the 9600XT 128MB card for about $102. It's a decent card at a decent price & there should be no concerns about the PSU.

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

Jam, I understand but why even buy a 9600, when the 9800 PRO is 3 times the card, so easily available - and dont give me the PSU storey, up-plug a cd-rom untill you can afford another PSU. Suffer, so you cant burn a cd from a cd for a bit, Id rather know that if I'm a 'gamer' I'm getting a robust card that still has some potential in it.

Now; stop chokeing on 9600 - up-plug a cd drive and get yourself a 9800 PRO.

Unitam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant

The original poster apparently does not want to upgrade his PSU...that's why I didn't mention any cards that require the plug-in. He also said, "Keep in mind I'm a casual gamer and not extremely interested in the highest framerates or smoothest graphics (although that would be nice)." Also, unplugging an optical drive really wouldn't help much (if at all) because it doesn't draw any amperage unless it's in use.

Aphid,

How about posting the make/model/wattage of your PSU & how many amps are on the +12v rail? If you don't know, check the label.

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

Everything that I've read suggests that the 9800PRO is a great card and I can pick it up for $180-200, but I also understand that it's power requirements are similar to a 6600GT and thus would need an upgraded power supply for my current specs. As I can get a 6600GT for $170 to $220 (Canadian), I'd probably just go with that if I wanted to upgrade my PSU. I do have a spare Molex cable just dangling there, but it's the PSU itself that probably doesn't have the juice. I think it's really an issue of a 9600XT vs a 6600GT with a new PSU at this point. Either that or spending more time outside.

Anyways, to focus the discussion a little more, is the performance gap between a 9600XT and a 6600GT to warrant the extra $200 I would pay (the difference between the two and the cost of a quality PSU)?

Not to stir the pot but is there a quality difference in manufacturers as well? The 9600XTs on tigerdirect.ca range from $100 to $170. Any particular reason why?

Off the top of my head it's a Startech 350w that has 15amps at the 12v rail. I understand that if the PSU is manufactured by a good company then it may be enough, but I think Startech, a local Canadian brand, doesn't really fall into that category.

Hey Aphid, the 15a is weak, I would look for a 20a off the 12v but if your 3.3v rail has sufficient juice - between 14a to 20a then I wouldnt worry about it. If you use 'ASUS Probe' (hit google) you can see what your voltages are most 12v run about 12.5 anyway, so even at 15a I would imagine you'll be fine. Providing you install the games full and the CD-Rom isn't in a constant seek mode, or your not using it to play cd's while you game (use winamp and mps;compression=free memory=better gaming) you should be fine. I still would recomend the AIW9800PRO for 3 reasons, its a rock solid gaming card and has the ability to accept cable and act as a TV tuner/TIVO meaning you can record your favorite shows etc..

For the best spent dollar go with the 9800-PRO; I blew my gf4mx440 the other day and I getting myself a 9800 PRO, my system is so close to yours its not funny.

Unitam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant

"ok, I wont stoke your flaming love for jam anymore then to drop the bottom line."

It's not a flaming love for jam as a flaming hatred for when people blindly attack someone for no reason other than they dared to give conflicting advice that is still valid and fact driven.

"A 9800 PRO is todays best value for this user"

6600GT is faster and around the same price.

" you only need on CD-ROM pluged in on any given occasion if a PSU will put you at that far."

Besides the obvious point Jam pointed out, this guy is a casual gamer. I don't think he would want to do this even if it worked.

"For the best spent dollar go with the 9800-PRO"

6600GT is a better performer by far at about the same price if VIVO functions aren't required. But if the original poster does not wish to buy a new power supply, the lower end Radeon solutions are the best choice.

Help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. Please donate to the American Red Cross.

www.redcross.org

ok, Aphid go buy a 6600GT (laff an agp sucky one) or spend your money on a P.O.S unsuuported radeon that has nothing special to talk about and will probably make you cry when you load doom3.

Cause you know, your a casual gamer why buy a card that would allow you to explore so much more, that would be retarded, like 2 log on names or taking a day to come to the end of a thought process.

WinXP PRO SP2
ASUS AN78X-X
BIOS ASUS 1014 beta 2
PC3200 768 1.5t 3t 3t 6t
AMD XP 2600+ @ 2.2
ATI AIW 9800 PRO

"ok, Aphid go buy a 6600GT (laff an agp sucky one)"

It's still faster than a 9800 Pro. Does this mean a 9800 Pro is even suckier? *scratching head*

"or spend your money on a P.O.S unsuuported radeon that has nothing special to talk about and will probably make you cry when you load doom3."

They're very much supported, play doom 3 perfectly fine (not high image quality settings, but medium it's fine).

Help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. Please donate to the American Red Cross.

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I really think you need to go outside. Aphid I hope you picked up the 9800 PRO bud, all I have to say right now after playing a few of my favourite games is wow, and STFU to this troll go help someone, this topic is done.

WinXP PRO SP2
ASUS AN78X-X
BIOS ASUS 1014 beta 2
PC3200 768 1.5t 3t 3t 6t
AMD XP 2600+ @ 2.2
ATI AIW 9800 PRO

Aphid,

I'm getting sick of all this bickering. I'll provide a few links & you can do your own research, then decide for yourself.

Here's all the VGA benchtest comparisons that Tom's Hardware has done over the past 3 yrs:

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/vga_charts.html

If that's not enough, try X-bit Labs:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/

And here's Digital-daily.com:

http://www.digital-daily.com/video/

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

LOL, for all the talk of Jam being the one who is pushing solutions solely on personal preference, when all the facts are given, I find it ironic this guy is clinging to a 9800 Pro being hands down the best solution.

Kinda sounds like he is basing his solution on personal preferences. ;-)

Help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. Please donate to the American Red Cross.

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actualy to be honest I purchased 3 video cards in the last week:

Gf FX 5200
GF FX 6600

and the AWI 9800

I clocked them, ran time demo's in my favorite games, unlocked them and 'toasted' them. I returned 2 nvidia products, probably cooked, and kept the ATI.

WinXP PRO SP2
ASUS AN78X-X
BIOS ASUS 1014 beta 2
PC3200 768 1.5t 3t 3t 6t
AMD XP 2600+ @ 2.2
ATI AIW 9800 PRO

"I returned 2 nvidia products, probably cooked, and kept the ATI"

You're forgetting the GF4 MX440 you just cooked as well. So over the past week or 2, you've overclocked 3 cards to death?

Hmm....

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

Also interesting:

There is no "FX 6600"...

Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina!

www.redcross.org

my bad, 5600* ; I didn't 'cook' them I toasted them, they ( the nvidia ) both did not stand up to the ATI.

I returned the Nvidia cards, and kept the ATI. I know that might sound odd to poor kids; but when you have some money you can play like that :o

Why cant we put questions here?

Hi
Aphid

as a 6600gt owner (xfx agp 128meg) the difference was imo quite astounding farcry ... what a beach, Doom3 ..new pants plz playability a breeze.
ut04 ...p'ownage.

from the upgrade route taken fx 5600 (lol)

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050705/vga-charts-pcie-07.html

well worth the money in my opinion for any part time gamer or serious 'playa' ,
The psu issue: well i tried it on a 400watt codegen, i now have a 500 watt other brand, enough said. xfx recomended a 450 quality brand a weak psu can cause weird and wonderul pc problems.

6 months later & very heavily used its still a very good card for the money, forget the non gt.(& a pity they dont make a 7800 in agp.) I suspect if you buy a 6600gt then somewhere in the not too distant future a cpu / mobo upgrade will follow.

enjoy !!! :)http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details-print.asp?EdpNo=1121824&Sku=P450-8529

no c.net regulars were hurt in the making of this post.

Hey dudes,
My AGP 6600GT runs on a 300W power supply, does this mean that it is a bit less powerful than the ones that run on 450 or higher power supplies?
Sarosh.

Sarosh
Refurbished AOpen 6600GT 108$

hehe any topic with 38 replys is bound to contain controversy. This one certainly didnt dissapoint

I'm glad I lived up to expectations. :-)

Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina!

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But you guys didnt respond to my question.
Since my agp 6600GT runs on 300W psu does it mean it is not as powerful as those 6600GTs that run on 450W PSUs?

Sarosh
Refurbished AOpen 6600GT 108$

Just to update, I got a Radeon 9600XT AIW and installed it last night. I didn't see a an immediate major change, but I do notice that some of the choppier game do run more smoothly now. I think I have to monkey with settings levels now to find the best compromise.

Something that was upsetting is that I ran into major issues with my monitor repeated turning off, which was never a problem with my Radeon 9000. I think it's a high refresh rate/crappy monitor issue and may have been fixed, but it was a little disconcerting to say the least.

Thanks for everyone's input, even those touted an alternate card. It's good to get everyone's thoughts on different products.