Tom's Guide | Tom's Hardware | Tom's Games
 |
 |
 |
after thinking a while on the advances in computer technology i have come up with this statement:
a system that is more high-end now will be competant for a few years to come, just maybe not in the newest best gaming, but there are always very many older games to play that are just as fun as the newest ones. bear in mind too that lower-end games and more basic apps (i.e. internet surfing and office work) dont require 1/4 or 1/6 of the computing power that the newest computers have. what do you think they did back when the Pentium or 80486 was top-of-the-line? also, i beleive the computer industry needs to stop progressing as radically, at least for a few years. the notion of a "gaming machine" is somewhat of a paradox, because the hardware comes first. games that require a Pentium 4 level of speed to run well only came out after P4s did. the hardware comes first, and we are greedy. if the hardware did not keep advancing as rediculously as it currently does, then we would not require extreme computing power just to pick up a game off the shelf at wal-mart and play it in your spare time, due to the fact that the games would not require the extreme power.
does anyone else agree with me?
Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.
Absolutely not!
IMHO, Games are the main catalyst to the rapid advancement in computing technology. This has opened the door for a whole new range of applications that would not be possible otherwise, such as video editing.
Sure, it sucks that the mach9ine you buy today will not run the newest games at their highest level a year, or even 6 months, from now. BUt what's the alternative? Only having computers that can play Doom? If you have ever experienced Half Life 2 on a high-end system, then you can see that the rapid advancement of the technology has bright us on the brink of real-time, fully realistic content. The physics alone in HL2 are astounding, not to mention the geometry evident in the characters.
0 
Computer gaming isn't console gaming. If you don't like buying new hardware all the time, go console.
However, I don't see computer gaming as quite the catalyst as Michael J does. The slowing in the sales of computers that happened between 2000 and today is evidence that people don't buy that much hardware for gaming. Instead, they buy when they need the hardware to perform a certain application. Gaming has more than anything advanced the graphics card industry, yet those advancements aren't used in video editing.
Gamers have contributed to the R&D treasure chests of many companies to advance technology; that much is true. To the point that technology used for video editing would not be possible? I totally disagree with that. To the point that games today would not be as technologically advanced as they are, I absolutely agree.
I do wish that gaming companies however would focus more on making a fun game instead of technologically advanced games for the sake of them being technologically advanced. Half Life 2 is a great example. As good as it is, it's not nearly as fun and fresh as the original.
Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina.
www.redcross.org
0
Heropsycho,
I didn't mean for any of my statements to be taken as absolutes. Would video editing be possible today without gaming? Probably. But, I can't think of any software that has requirements that are as high and have rapidly increased over time as games. This includes Video Cards, Processors, RAM, and even internet connections. Heck the whole reason I made the switch to broadband many years ago was because my high ping was killing me in Counter Strike (old school).
In fact I can't think of many applications at all that the typical consumer would use that require very high system specs. For instance Battlefield 2 minimum requirements are 1.7GHz processor, 512MB RAM, 128MB Video Card, and a broadband connection. By comparison, Office 2003 sytem requirements are 233MHz processor, 128MB RAM, Super VGA Card, and dial-up.
The fact that there was a slump in the computer industry is not relevant unless it is put into context. Perhaps most of the people who had purchased computers previously did not buy new computers because the ones they had were sufficient for the tasks they did (i.e. non gaming). Maybe those who DID purchase computers during that period were buying specifically to upgrade their systems to play more advanced games. That is the reason why I acquired my last 2 systems - because I could not play the newer games. And it is the reason I plan to upgrade in the next month or so.
By the way, I do not intend to argue. I just think this is a worthwhile topic for discussion. Also, I can't fault you too much since my gaming name is Psycho.
Michael J
0
"By the way, I do not intend to argue. I just think this is a worthwhile topic for discussion."
This is a discussion, not arguing, so it's all good...
"But, I can't think of any software that has requirements that are as high and have rapidly increased over time as games."
I've been around enough servers to know server apps still require boatloads of power to run. Multiprocessor, only now moving towards the mainstream with dual core, has been a staple in server environments. Having tons of RAM? 2 to 4 gigs is commonplace in servers. And RAID? SAN's can now do 100 disk RAID sets. So I keep all this in perspective with computer hardware in respect to games. The server market is a large section of the market.
"Heck the whole reason I made the switch to broadband many years ago was because my high ping was killing me in Counter Strike (old school)."
That's why I jumped to broadband, too. :-) But gamers were never the majority nor the vast majority of computer users. Keep that in mind. It's tempting to project the groups we represent on the majority of others, but that's simply not the case many times.
Also, how many people are going broadband to play XBox and PS2 games multiplayer compared to computer games? To me, that doesn't count.
"For instance Battlefield 2 minimum requirements are 1.7GHz processor, 512MB RAM, 128MB Video Card, and a broadband connection. By comparison, Office 2003 sytem requirements are 233MHz processor, 128MB RAM, Super VGA Card, and dial-up."
And what accounts for the slump in computer sales? Office only requiring that low end of a system. The vast majority of users don't game. Computer sales have picked up recently because there are now apps that need more that home users want to run - higher end photo and video editing being the two major apps, not to mention that the systems they were using are getting on 5 years old or more, and beginning to fail.
"Maybe those who DID purchase computers during that period were buying specifically to upgrade their systems to play more advanced games."
Even as gamers kept buying new systems to game, and the rest of computer sales slumped, who you and I would consider gamers made up the vast minority of computer buyers. Want proof? Look at data concerning the average price of a computer sold in the last five years. The vast majority are the $500-700 Dell/HP/Compaq/eMachines/Gateways that you and I know can't game worth a crap.
"That is the reason why I acquired my last 2 systems - because I could not play the newer games. And it is the reason I plan to upgrade in the next month or so."
You and I aren't the majority. And even me, how much is the hardware I buy related to being a power user and not a gamer? I have an entire second system that's not used for gaming at all. Athlon XP 3200 with 2 gigs of RAM, 2x 60 gig hard drives used for running a virtual lab. That system is not used for gaming in the slightest. My laptop is not used for gaming either.
Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina...err...Rita. Starting to lose track...
www.redcross.org
0
i dont care much about the computer industry slumping. i am glad when people choose to stick with a current "outdated" system rather then jump to a new one. even so, many people throw system IN THE TRASH because they are too slow to run this or that applation. just last week i found a complete and functional Emachines "Emonster" (the gaming machine of 5 years ago). i referbed it (format, install a larger HDD, upgrade memory, add netwrok card) and sold it to a guy down the street who was wanting to replace his 80486 system with one that he could use his DSL connection on. perfectly understandable. from my understanding he gave the 80486 system to his son who plays old and simple games on it for hours at a time. this is what i like to see. people who are not high-end gamers and who dont think they need cutting-edge systems. not that good systems are bad, i think they kick butt as much as the next guy, i just think people who dont game are frivilous when it comes to their systems. for example, my aunt just gave me her old laptop after buying a new one. 333mhz with 128mb (the old one) for a Celeron M 1.2ghz with 512mb. and all she does is office apps and internet, which the old one would have handled fine. ridiculuos. it makes me smile when i see someone using a system for more basic apps that ISNT high-end. it means one less old system taking up space in a land fill and one less old system in the trash i am sure some poor person would love to have. people are throw-away minded, and the computer industry is going to do itself in by advancing too quickly, only concerned about profit. and i agree with you hero that games should concentrate more on quality of the game itself rather then killer graphics that need ten-billion gigs of ram to run. dont get me wrong though i think high-end systems are nice, i just think that you shoudl only buy a high-end system if you will use all its power, and if not stick with what you have.
Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.
0
"even so, many people throw system IN THE TRASH because they are too slow to run this or that applation."
Mmm, linux...
"for example, my aunt just gave me her old laptop after buying a new one. 333mhz with 128mb (the old one) for a Celeron M 1.2ghz with 512mb."
For office, I can understand that. Windows with Office on 128M of RAM sucks. 333MHz doesn't cut it too well for MS Office either, unfortunately.
"people are throw-away minded"
True.
"the computer industry is going to do itself in by advancing too quickly, only concerned about profit."
LOL... What's wrong with profit walking hand and hand with innovation? :-D
You have to understand that with all this advancement has come cheaper prices, too. While prices on housing, food, and fuel has gone up, computers have managed to become cheaper while performing better all the while. I bought my first computer in 1995. Pentium 60MHz, 16M RAM, 540M hard drive, 1M video piece of dog crap AST computer with a 14" Sony Trinitron monitor and a Canon color printer for $2500. Look what $2500 buys you now!
In 1995, a slim majority of people *didn't* have a computer. Now, most people have a computer, and a large percentage of those have more than one. I personally have my main PC, my Linux PC, my Virtual PC server, my Linux router PC, a laptop, and my wife has her own PC. Not to mention PDA, my Ipod...you get the idea.
Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina...err...Rita. Starting to lose track...
www.redcross.org
0
Hi, in reply a few points worth a thought
"You have to understand that with all this advancement has come cheaper prices"
maybe not,, more likey this is nearer the truth.
How profit is made by pc manufacturers
via outsourcing offshore..figures given for example only;
Average Full-time U.S. Wal-Mart Employee
$9.68 (UK Asda £5 )per hour
ROC (China) manufacturer average employee rate$0.17
pc's country of origin e.g.Dell?.
Easy to spot where the money is made.The 'global innovation chain' see where its happening now and in the future.
& see 'low wages' thats the crunch
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000006&sid=ah7GLxt_992s&refer=home'Computer gaming isn't console gaming'
the difference being? the latest purportedly offer the same power as a 7800gtx and run an OS.
oh ok no Keyboard.the distinction between pc, media centre , games console seems to be rapidly blurring to an all in one solution, oddly
i saw for sale the other day convergent technology vcr dvd rw combo, i had to stop to think what the flip, Vcr& dvdrw ? dont they do the same job, may be in a year or two the Xbox will be smoothed out and running an OS, penguin or not, it probably can now, its just the manufacturer doesnt want lose the pc market. why sell one when you can get ppl to buy 2.further thoughts?
0
"How profit is made by pc manufacturers
via outsourcing offshore.."No doubt offshoring is going on. I got laid off once because of offshoring. But even individual parts went down, which were being made outside the US in 1995, too. Offshoring, while it has played a role in lower prices, doesn't explain the price drop in hardware.
"the difference being? the latest purportedly offer the same power as a 7800gtx and run an OS."
We're talking from a marketing perspective here. In a consumer's mind, there's a difference between a computer and console still.
Also, this is a recent phenomenon of the blurring between them.
"dont they do the same job, may be in a year or two the Xbox will be smoothed out and running an OS, penguin or not, it probably can now, its just the manufacturer doesnt want lose the pc market. why sell one when you can get ppl to buy 2."
The very idea of a console is a gaming appliance. While modders and hackers can change the internal parts and code, that in the end makes the console cease to be a console. Consoles are highly controlled to eliminate problems with varying hardware and internal code. PC's aren't, with the total opposite being a linux opensource OS.
And yes, you can have people buying multiple devices that do the same thing. But remember, it's not just IF a device can do it, but how easy is it to do it.
The Ipod is a perfect example. Hardware wise, other MP3 players from IRiver for example are superior. But why are IPods selling like mad? Simple - the interface of Itunes is so easy to sync and purchase music. I don't buy what's trendy, so that's not why I bought one. I wanted an Ipod over the others because I didn't want a device that soaks up my time managing the device, while well aware of complaints about the batteries dying, etc.
TiVo's also sell based on this. Who wants to keep changing tapes? And what's more intuitive - setting up recordings based on time and channel, or by the actual program you want to watch?
Remember, I'm more adept to learning technology than the average bear, but when even I buy some devices based on their ease of use, you know the average still fairly computer illiterate person is doing it.
Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina...err...Rita. Starting to lose track...
www.redcross.org
0
Hi
nice reply , sry the vcr/dvdrw had me laughing for a bit the logic was lost here seems belt and braces.The cost of hardware has dropped due to manufacturing overheads (direct labour charge 10% of ours Eu) being substantially reduced in Eastern countries, add volume
sales of white box etc & unit cost plummets.
Margins being low just pushes manufacturers to employ cheaper work force.I think your last para sums up in one the
pc/console issue, the average person hasnt got a clue what goes on inside the 'box', i agree 100%, but thats no excuse for a manufacturer, im still suprised why no manufacturer has made the console/pc combo tho, after all it wouldnt need much to browse the net, run a basic office like package with some capabilitys e.g. email , and as we know Linux on or off chip has been available for some time, the technology is here, i'll watch for the ps3
hopefully sooner as that 7800gtx is looking like xmas :)
just for interest,& wether its true or not,http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/09/news_6127219.html
regards
0
my aunt's latop runs office xp just fine with 128mb, but for the hell of it the very next thing i did is go on eBay and buy a 128mb laptop memory stick. bumped up to 256mb, it now runs Windows XP Professional, and copes with it fine. she did not need a new one. i wish people were not so throw-it-away minded nor so greedy.
Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.
0
"my aunt's latop runs office xp just fine with 128mb"
Windows XP runs like crap on 128M RAM with or without Office. Even if you run Win9X and office, if you start making a complex word doc with images, 128M ain't enough. If she were simply running typing letters, yeah, 128M would be ok.
"she did not need a new one. i wish people were not so throw-it-away minded nor so greedy."
Point taken, but sometimes it's not that people are greedy, or that the reason old PC's get thrown away is because of the end user.
Let's take your aunt for example. For argument's sake, let's say she was unhappy that it was running slow, and you weren't around. She takes it to a technician complaining the machine runs slow in office. We're going to assume the technician nails it on the head (no guarantee he will) that she needs more memory. The diagnosis alone will run probably $60. Next, the technician will then recommend probably a new memory stick at let's say $60. Technician will then charge another $60 to install it.
That's $180. She still has 333MHz laptop. Since it's so old, there's a very good chance some other part will go out within the next year, often the battery.
Most people expect a computer repair will be at least $100, probably more. They see ads all the time for new laptops starting at $500.
Your aunt sees the ad. Celeron Mobile 1.2GHz, 256M RAM, 40 gig drive, WinXP she didn't have already. She'll now actually have a warranty on the machine. Is it more than she needs? Sure. She buys it anyway.
I don't call that greed. I call it common sense.
When the AC on my car died, it was estimated to cost $2000 to fix. Were they gouging me? Who knows? I don't know anything about AC's in cars, nor who I should trust to fix it for a reasonable price. My car blue booked for $2000. Did I need a new car? Probably not, but if I fixed the AC, who's to say something else wouldn't crap out the next day on a car with 140,000 miles?
What did I do? I bought another car. Would be nice for me to know cars well enough to fix it myself, and only replace what I needed to, and not have to pay for labor, or know someone who would fix it for cheap and do it right. But I don't know how, and I don't know anyone who does to help me out. Your aunt was lucky to know you. Most consumers don't know someone or know themselves how to fix it.
Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina.
www.redcross.org
0  |
 Max Video card for this s...
|
Upgrading From A Geforce ...
|
This post is quite old and has been locked from receiving new replies. Please create a new posting instead.
| Ads by Google |
