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Random Lock Ups

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Original Message
Name: voucherlive
Date: September 26, 2004 at 14:24:28 Pacific
Subject: Random Lock Ups
OS: Windows XP SP2
CPU/Ram: Athlon XP 2800+ 512MB PC2
Comment:

I would just like some help. I have a RADEON 9800 and whenever I turn on my computer for the first time everyday it runs for a while then it just locks up. Sometimes VPU recover will kick in , but sometimes not. A quick reboot and he computer is fine for the rest of the day. Now after this occurs, I try to play some games. I experience just a random lock up in Serious Sam 2, Jedi Academy, RTCW, and Far Cry. Usually after I just turn on my computer is the longest time I experience without a lockup (15 minutes+ of play time before lock up), but after that it doesn't take very long. Now I was just wondering what is this exactly, underpowered PSU (Using the 400W that came with my 40 dollar case, running 1 120GB HDD, one cd cdrive, one dvd burner, a SOYO KT600 V1.0, Athlong XP 2800+, 512 MB PC2700 RAM (2x256), and 2 fans besides the CPU fan) or is it Software? Or is a defective Video Card. I need a quick answer b/c I only have a few more weeks to return the video card if ti IS defective. Much help would be appreciated.

I just want to fix this.


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Response Number 1
Name: Chunko
Date: September 26, 2004 at 20:09:07 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Your specs look fine.
I believe The problem lies within the catalyst drivers.
I suggest downloading driver cleaner, uninstall the catalyst drivers,reboot in safe mode,run the driver cleaner and also the cab cleaner then delete any ATI folder,reboot offline(otherwise xp will automatically download MS drivers),install the latest catalyst OFFLINE.
Also make sure your chipset drivers are up to date.


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Response Number 2
Name: voucherlive
Date: September 27, 2004 at 13:25:13 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Ok, Ill try it. Just another question. Could this possibly be cause by an overheating or defective video card and/or an overheating/Bad/Underpowered PSU. Even if it only does it in certain games. Example: Doom 3 runs fine at High Detail 1024x768 2xAA with no lock ups.

I just want to fix this.


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Response Number 3
Name: Chunko
Date: September 27, 2004 at 15:46:42 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Its possible it could be an overheating issue but unlikely since you can run an intensive game as Doom3 with no issues.
Your power supply is fine.
Take my word when I say its the catalyst.
I'm trying to get rid of my 9800pro because these damned catalyst drivers.


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Response Number 4
Name: voucherlive
Date: September 29, 2004 at 10:24:29 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

I have some mroe information. Hopefully this may be more helpful. I tried unistalling drivers and cleaning. No Dice. I have noticed something though. In Far Cry, if I have the game set at Recommended settings, it doesn't lock up. Only when I set the details higher (use AA and AF, stuff like that) do I have problems. But now, for the past week or so, instead of locking up, it reboots, only in Far Cry though. You think it could be an OS setting conflict? or another program conflicting? Do you think that a HDD reformat and/or an OS reinstallation would fix this?

I just want to fix this.


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Response Number 5
Name: Chunko
Date: September 29, 2004 at 20:06:29 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

A reinstall or format will not make a difference.
Right click my computer,select properties,click the advanced tab,click on startup and recovery button and untick the "Automatically restart" option.Apply,OK.
Now instead of random reboots you will get a BSOD with possible technical information relating to what is causing the crashes.When you get the BSOD look for "technical information" and write down what it says then post back here.
I can almost guarantee its the ATI drivers,ati2dvag.dll to be exact.
I implore you to take the card back and buy an Nvidia card.
Here is what me and many unhappy ATI customers have been forced to deal with.ATI refuses to acknowledge the problem after 8 months of requests from many people including myself.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33752579&page=1&pp=30
(Notice how many pages/posts it is).


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Response Number 6
Name: voucherlive
Date: September 30, 2004 at 14:35:09 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Well, as much as I understand. I really think that it can be fixed somehow. The performance of an NVIDIA card for the same price I paid for my card would be disapointing and a waste. I have noticed lately that my +5v, is at idle around 4.91, and dips down to below 4.83 with ANY kind of load. I checked and the automatically reboot was never checked. I did get the BSOD once and it said that ATI thing, but I really think somehow there is a fix. I really don't want the lower performance of an NVIDIA card, especially with HL2 coming out. I have read that reboots and lockups can be caused by a faulty and/or overheating PSU. I have noticed lately that when I turn on my computer the PSU fan grinds and is not putting out much air.

I just want to fix this.


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Response Number 7
Name: Chunko
Date: September 30, 2004 at 22:21:50 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

" did get the BSOD once and it said that ATI thing,"
Like I said,its a problem ATI refuse to fix.
Your PSU has nothing to do with this.
This is a DRIVER issues.A driver issue which ATI is not acknowledging.
I understand you dont want to lose performance but is it that much of a problem to return the card and buy a 6800 for $50 more?I sure as hell would do it but my card is no longer refundable and I'm not going through ATI.
Did you bother reading (some) the link I sent you??If thats not enough reason for you to stay away from ATI I dont know what is.
I'm not anti-ATI,they just have a serious problem they are not working on resolving and you,unfortunately,are one of the few who have to deal with it.
All I can say is your running out of time if you want to get your money back and I dont see a solution in sight any time soon in regards to the catalyst drivers.
I wouldn't be so adamant about you getting rid of your card if I had no good reason.
Save your self the stress and take my advice.
As for your power supply.You paid $40 for a case and PSU,you have a cheap power supply that most likely wont put out 400 watts(thats how the cheap PSU's run).
If your system is stable with the exception of the catalysts of course,then I wouldn't worry much about the PSU unless your computer starts losing power for no reason.In that case I suggest buying an Antec power supply,the make the best.
I hope I shed some light as to whats going on also wish you take my advice.
Let me know what you decide
Peace out.


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Response Number 8
Name: voucherlive
Date: October 1, 2004 at 10:38:01 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Well, unfortunately, I am past the refund date. I would have taken your advice if tha were the case. Now, here is an intersting factoid. I tried adding another Hard Drive to my computer (as a test) and I removed my other Hard Drive. I reformatted the HDD and installed Win98SE. I then installed Far Cry and the Catalyst 4.7's (The latest for Win98) and then started playing. I maxed out the details and tried to play. It lasted a LONG time before locking up. Probably around 45 minutes. I think that this is th elongest at High Details it has lasted. Now this suggests some sort of load issue (XP puts more load on the Hardware w/o games, while 98 uses hardly any resources) I have read other posts where people playing certain games where it locks up or it goes to a black screen (which it has done before) and they have been able to fix it with a new Power Supply. The more I think about it, this is logical because of the intermittent effects of this problem (lock up and saound sometimes, black screen scomtimes, sometime reboots). I just found that NewEGG has a sale on a good PSU. A 520W for 55.00, Now I normally would say "it's a piece of crap", but 48 people have rated it and only 2 rated it lower than 5 stars (the lowest score was a 4/5). Of the people that rated it 4/5 the only reason why is becuase it is longer than normal PSU's and some people with small cases have to modify their case. I have a large case so this shouldn't be a problem. I think I am going to order it. It has 3 fans. I hope this fixes it. I know some people have had problems with this. Hopefully my problem can be fixed.

I just want to fix this.


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Response Number 9
Name: Chunko
Date: October 1, 2004 at 14:54:22 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

You are correct in assuming it has something to do with XP.
I read that a couple people went back to W2K
to have the problem disappear.
You never answered if you installed your chipsets latest drivers.If you have not you need to do so.
Like I said before,I highly doubt its your PSU.If you insist on getting a PSU you should really look into Antec or head over to toms hardware and check out what they have to say about other quality PSU brands.
Let me know how it goes.


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Response Number 10
Name: voucherlive
Date: October 1, 2004 at 17:54:30 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Here, this may be a revelation. I was experimenting with cranking up AA and AF and playing Quake 3 (an OpenGL game that never locked up) and if I crank the details and AA and AF and the rez way up I can make that game lock up like all of the others (similar to Far Cry) This is sounding mroe and mroe like a video card overheating issue. It makes sense, the more calculations it deos, the hotter it gets and when it gets too hot, it stops responding. I think that I may want to try puting a good cooler on it? What do you think of this sentiment?


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Response Number 11
Name: Chunko
Date: October 1, 2004 at 19:23:55 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Well obviously the games gonna crash if you put that much stress on it.
How many fans do you have running in the case?
Have you checked the temps before?


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Response Number 12
Name: voucherlive
Date: October 2, 2004 at 08:22:36 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Well, I have one back exhaust fan (blowing through tiny holes, I know I need to cut the hole out and put a grille) ,one side panel fan sucking air in. And then the fan on my processor. Since I got this new video card, I can't go any higher in my number of fans, b/c I get BSODths and system instability. Also, I know on a low power card it will lock up if you put too much stress, but this is a RADEON 9800, definately not in the low power category.
My temps are as follows : CPU: About 41-45, CHA like max of 40 at full load (*C)And like I had said before Im feeling and my PSU fan is blowing very little air out. It used to blow a lot more, and when I turn on my PC It grinds for 5 minutes.

I just want to fix this.


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Response Number 13
Name: Chunko
Date: October 2, 2004 at 19:20:49 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Your temps are fine as well as having 2 case fans.
I suggest you get a new CPU fan.Sounds to me as if its cashing out.


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Response Number 14
Name: voucherlive
Date: October 3, 2004 at 14:06:35 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Do you mean a new Power Supply Fan? That's the one that's grinding. My CPU fan is fine. As a matter of fact I have on of thos elarge heatsinks that supports the 80MM case fan on the CPU, and it seems to keep the CPU cool. It's the Power supply fan that is blowing out very little air. If so, do you recommend I replace the fan in the power supply myself, or should I just get a new power supply. If I should do it myself, what is the quietest 80mm fan you can buy, a link would be helpful, im going for a somewhat silent computer, and would like to replace all of my fans while I'm at it (My computers kinda loud).

I just want to fix this.


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Response Number 15
Name: Chunko
Date: October 3, 2004 at 16:28:41 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Sorry about that.I thought you said CPU fan was grinding and blowing little air.
Like I suggested before,go with Antec.
Check out newegg and tiger direct for best prices.
I suggest getting at least a 350 watter.
Anything Antec makes is top notch and also best in terms of silence.


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Response Number 16
Name: voucherlive
Date: October 4, 2004 at 18:07:24 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

I think I have solved my problem. I set the AGP speed to 8x, and disabled the advanced write and read options. Now it's stable. The games that locked up before no longer do. My problem is my motherboard. From what I have read this is a common problem with Soyo motherboards. They do not handle 8x cards well, and sometimes cause problems like this. So I am going to buy a new motherboard, but for now, I'm just sticking with the 4x speed. It's not that much slower (I think b/c my mobo didn't run it at 8x speed anyway) and would like your opinion on the best Socket A motherboard. Links would be helpful. Thank You.


I just want to fix this.


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Response Number 17
Name: Chunko
Date: October 4, 2004 at 19:18:51 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Man I cant believe I forgot to mention AGP speeds and fastwrites.Oh well.
I'm glad you solved the problem(for now).
Here are a couple links for mobos:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=179
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=1
As for the reviews,I would do some googling on the model numbers and go from there.


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Response Number 18
Name: voucherlive
Date: October 5, 2004 at 11:16:24 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

Hey, thanks for the links. I do have a convern. It seems to be working at AGP 4x mode, but I have read that in 8x mode the AGP voltage should be .8V. When I look at my voltages in my SOYO hardware monitor it still says 1.5v even at 8x. If it is truly running at this voltage then this could eb causing the problems in 8x mode that I ahaving. if I can't change voltages in the BIOS (which I can't), do you know how?

I just want to fix this.


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Response Number 19
Name: Chunko
Date: October 5, 2004 at 19:34:54 Pacific
Reply: (edit)

If you cant change the voltage in the bios I believe you are screwed.
You may want to ask in the hardware forum.


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