Hi All,
In October I upgraded from an fx5200 to a 6600GT and just this week I have managed to get a 2.4GHz northwood processor to replace my 1.7GHz willamate. I know this is not the fastest processor around, but it is very economical for me to buy it for 106$ (4770RS)
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=P42400B478&cat=CPU
when a second P4 1.7GHz processor sells for 4699Rs on www.ebay in
http://cgi.ebay.in/INTEL-PENTIUM-IV-1-7-Ghz-CPU-SOCKET-478_W0QQitemZ6834868712QQcategoryZ14293QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Since I am saving a lot on these upgrades, I am not tempted to upgrade my ram from 512MB to 1GB.
I would like your advice in this matter. How much of an impact will the additional ram have on gaming? Is it safe for me to continue with 512MB ram or do you think 1GB is going to become necessary for all future games?
Please note that I am considering to buy the ram, and I appreciate any discussion in this matter. I am not looking to be convinced, rather your opinions on the advantags of additional RAM.

Most importantly, I would like to learn from you guys as to how adding more ram will affect the clock speeds and frame rates of games.
From cpu-z I got the following information about my memory:
Type: DDR-SDRAM
SIZE: 512 MBytes
Bank Interleave: 4-way
Frequency: 133.5Mhz
FSB:DRAM: FSB + 33 MHz
CAS#Latency 2.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS # DELAY: 2 clocks
RAS# Precharge: 2 clocks
Cycle Time (Tras): 5 clocks.

Please note that I have gone to the bios of my mother board (Asus p4v533-mx) and set all the options of RAM to settings which I think give best performance.
When my friend saw these settings he said they were pretty "thight" and good for gaming. Hence I would like to know that if I put in another RAM chip will it affect any of these settings and slow down the RAM speed? Is it worth slowing down the RAM speed to get an additional amount of ram.
I purchased my current Ram stick about a year ago, and I have no idea if the new stick my hardware chap will give me will be the same model or not.

I am thinking of getting the Ram added when I go to fix in my new cpu, so any advice from you guys in this regard will be highly appreciated.
Thanks,
Sarosh.

Sarosh

"just this week I have managed to get a 2.4GHz northwood processor to replace my 1.7GHz willamate"

About freakin time! LOL

As for the RAM, you really only need PC2100 at 133MHz...there's no point running it faster because the CPU bus is only running at 133MHz (533FSB). However, I suggest you buy PC3200 & just keep your RAM settings manually adjusted. running at 133MHz.

The only difference to the above settings is that when you finally install your new P4, change your DRAM setting from "FSB + 33 MHz" to "FSB" or "FSB + 0" (whatever it is?). In other words, make sure the Frequency stays at 133MHz

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Haha, Yea jam,
Thanks man. You have been quite patient. Anyway, last I heard that my friend has ordered the cpu online and is going to ship it to me soon. It will be some time before it actually gets here.
What do you think about me upgrading from 512MB to 1GB ram.
I know that the bios settings are quite important for additional frame rates.
Back when I brought this ram I had the fx5200 and I tested it using the quake3 demo. When I overclocked all the ram settings available in the bios I got about a 15% increase in fram rates. GTA3 was framing at default settings, but after I adjusted the various ram settings the bios, gta ran quite smooth. So I think the ram settings in my bios are quite important for additional frame rates. I would not like to loose this high speed settings for additional amount of ram.
Do you think it is better to stick with 512MB of fast ram or 1gb of slightly slower ram for games?

Sarosh

I already made my recommendation. You have 512MB...add another 512MB of PC3200 to it run as if it was PC2100, using the same settings that you currently have. As a matter of fact, you have the RAM running at the wrong speed now...it should be 100MHz (FSB), not 133MHz (FSB + 33).

What I tried to explain above is that once you install the new CPU, the CPU frequency will increase to 133MHz (aka 533FSB). If you keep the setting at "FSB + 33", your RAM will run at 166MHz. It's better to have both CPU & RAM at 133MHz, or both at 166MHz, not one of each. Of course, if you're able to pull off both at 166MHz, you'd have overclocked your CPU to 3.0GHz ;)

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Hi Jam,
I will take my time trying to understand yoru above post. Here we call ram as "266" or "333" and it is a bit confusing the way you call ram as "2600" and "3200"
Anyway, I had replied to one of your earlier replies, please check.
When I run the ram at 200MHz from the bio setting my 3d marks scores are reduced by about 150 and also my cpu scores goes down by about 200 points. If you want I can post you the details again.
So obviously running the ram at 266 is helping my 3d mark and cpu score. I am not sure why what I will gain by running it at 200Mhz.
Sorry if I dont understanad you fully there, but I am obviosly experiencing a performance gain by running the ram at 266 rather than 200Mhz.

Sarosh

We generally refer to RAM by it's bandwidth/model number.

PC1600 = DDR200 @ 100MHz (default frequency)
PC2100 = DDR266 @ 133MHz
PC2700 = DDR333 @ 166MHz
PC3200 = DDR400 @ 200MHz

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I'm far from being an expert when it comes to Intel systems. I don't like them & I don't build with them. The only time I work on them is when I get one in for repair or upgrade.

Ideally, the CPU bandwidth & RAM bandwidth should be the same. At 100MHz(400FSB), the max CPU bandwidth would be 3200MB/sec. To be in balance, you should either have 2 sticks of RAM at 100MHz(DDR200) in dual channel mode (3200MB/sec)...or RAM running at 200MHz(DDR400) in single channel mode (3200MB/sec).

Since your board doesn't support dual channel mode, it may make sense to run your RAM at 133MHz(DDR266) as this will bring the RAM's bandwidth to 2100MB/sec, rather than 1600MB/sec (100MHz/DDR200).

Things will get worse when you install your 133MHz(533FSB) CPU though as the CPU bandwidth will increase to 4266MB/sec & your RAM (if still at 133MHz/DDR266) will lag even farther behind at 2100MB/sec

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Hey Jam,
You said "Things will get worse when you install your 133MHz(533FSB) CPU"
I dont know what to respond to you man. Just a few weeks ago you were telling me to junk my crappy cpu and that the best thing for me to do was get a northwood processor. Now that I am getting a northwoood processor you are saying that "things will get worse".
You just want to oppose me in anyway that you can man, I dont get it dude.
Anyway, how can things get worse man. If I run a agp 8x card on an agp 4x m/b how can it be "worse".
My asus m/b supports processors of fsb 400Mhz and 533Mhz and Ram of 266Mhz and 200Mhz.
I cant believe that a company like asus would not make each combination give optimal performanc. I dont think any of the combination would make things "worse".
Anyway, as I already replied to you, running my ram at 266MHz does give me quite some improvement in gaming. You seemed to suggest that running at 266Mhz would offer no gain over 200Mhz. The results I obtained dont support your claim.

Sarosh

You know what, my New Year's resolution is to stop butting heads with idiots.

I think you better do some research on your own. You're not understanding me & I can't spend all my time teaching you basic mathmatical theory. And that's all it is...theory! It's based on MAXIMUM data transfer rates. The real world results are different. Your system will seldom if ever run at it's MAX.

There is no doubt that your rig will run better with the 533FSB Northwood. But when I wrote "Things will get worse" I was pointing out that there will "theoretically" be a larger bandwidth gap between your CPU & RAM after the CPU upgrade. I have no idea how you're gonna configure your RAM & I have no idea what BIOS settings are available...& I'm not gonna bother to look.

Reread response #6 & leave off the last comment. I DID support your claim that your system would probably score better with the RAM at 266 & the CPU at 400, rather than at 200 & 400. But when in get the new 533 CPU, the RAM will still be at 266.

I told you way back when that you have a crappy motherboard. It's outdated & based on a crappy chipset. You refused to upgrade & I know had your reasons, but you're gonna have to figure out how to deal with the disparities in the technology. Don't get pissed at me for pointing them out to you. I have better things to do....

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Dont worry man,
I am not pissed at anyone. Thats just the way I talk sometimes.
Anyway, thanks man.
You are a bit too technical for me and I dont understand half of your theroies man. I am looking for more causal comments, but I appreciate your help and have a good new year man.

Sarosh

Jam,
Why is theory so important anyway? Why dont we stick to the real world performance. All that matters at the end of the day is the frame rate man. If I get faster frame rates with my new procesor, that is all I need to know man. You called me idiot and you called my system crap, haha, thats cool, no problem man.
But my system is not crap at all dude, its just slower than most systems available. But it is definitely not crap. I have never felt the need of a faster system upto date, except gameing and a 1.7GHz P4 perfectly and totally fulfills my needs man. You got to keep this in perspective man.
Now forget about theory, and if you feel like then tell me how much percentage of a increase in 3d mark score can I expect with the 2.4GHz processor. It will be interesting to see your estimation.
And stay cool man, dont get stressed brother.

Sarosh