I know my GeForce FX 5700LE 256mb is one of the lowest performing FX cards, but know I wanna know what I should do with it. Even on Max Payne2 it lags just a tad at times and Halo goes at maybe 40-50FPS. I can't tolerate these mediocre frame rates! And I want to be rest assured that my PC will run HalfLife2 when I get it.
Do you guys think it's worth it to put the card into my slower Athlon700 rig and invest in a FX 5800 or higher (sorry, I'm not going ATI)? I'm on a limited budget-I don't even have a steady income.

Your FX 5700LE 256mb is NOT "one of the lowest performing FX cards"...it's the lowest performing of the 5700 family. There are other FX cards that are much weaker.

I see absolutely no need for you to invest in a new card. If you wanna improve performance, increase your system RAM to at least 512MB & upgrade your OS to WinXP. You don't necessarily have to format the HDD, just partition it & set it up as dual boot machine with 98SE/XP Pro.

Asus A7N8X-X
1800+ @ 8 x 210MHz
512MB PC3200
Asus Ti4800SE 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro

Yeah, I know it's not the worst, but it still isn't as fast as I expected. And the clock and ram speed is WAY lower than I expected. It's unfortunate that I first looked at them AFTER I had ordered the card. Damn.

Hold on there, bucko-there's no way I'm going to install XP. It's a resource hog. And it takes over your whole computer like a head crab. Not until the latest games and DirectX don't support Win98SE will I get XP. And there's no way in the world I'm dual booting. It's just too complicated for me and takes up a tunna space. Hey-I only have 40GB of HD. But I could do with some more ram, certainly if I'm going to play HL2.
Do you think I need a new HD?

Win98 is outdated...WinXP will run your games better.

I like dual boot systems...it's very easy to do & I've put together many systems that way. I don't know what you currently have on your drive, or how much space is used up, but I'd split it up as 10/30 with both partitons set as FAT32. Up your RAM to 512MB & I think you'd be surprised at how much better it'll run, even with that card that you "love to hate"...lol

Asus A7N8X-X
1800+ @ 8 x 210MHz
512MB PC3200
Asus Ti4800SE 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro

XP isn't a resource hog. You can dial down the appearance settings to speed it up, and then go disable unneeded services. Dude, I'm a Microsoft Certified Professional in 2000 and XP; trust me, you can tune it up quite a bit. And on newer hardware, it runs better than 98 does. Throw 512M or a gig of RAM in a 98 machine, and watch your computer either not gain in performance at all or slow down.

As for it taking over your system...it's an os; that's it's job. Look at what the OS can do from a technical standpoint. XP is leaps and bounds better than 98. Yes, it's different, you'll have to learn how it works, but it's absolutely without a doubt worth it.

Windows 98 can't manage RAM worth a crap. Jam is right, dude, get your XP on, and upgrade your RAM!

MCSE, MCSA Messaging, baby!

Hey Mitch,

I know you have a preference for nVidia cards, but I've been pushing the Radeon 9550 128MB/128-bit card as the best thing out there right now in budget cards. Have a look at this comparison & keep in mind that newegg sells the 9550 for about $75-80 shipped to your door:

http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=article&dId=649

Asus A7N8X-X
1800+ @ 8 x 210MHz
512MB PC3200
Asus Ti4800SE 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro

FPS is such a misconception, the human eye can not distinguish frames moving faster than 25fps (hence why all movies are fomated to run at a consistent 24fps) just a little info for your brain-o

Dont get me wrong though in games more is better, i'll take 150fps over 25 anyday, I'm saving up for a 6600gt.

If that's true, why can I easily see the difference between 60Hz and 85Hz refresh rates?

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

I do agree with Galileo, in a way. When the frame rates go above oh, say 80-100, its nearly impossible to tell the difference between that and 150+ FPS. But I hate it how older games that don't have V-Sync jitter all over the place, like Unreal Tournament(when you move the croshair around, it skips kinda) and No One Lives Forever1(in 3rd person mode, if you aim left and right, it looks like you're seeing tripple). Anyways, 25FPS is WAY too slow for me, even 30-40. I like at least 50. BTW: Unreal Tournament 2004 is going WAY faster than any movie I know of :-)

As for WinXP, all the PCs I've used it on go terribly slow(even with 512MB). Windows has all sorts of programs and little things going on in the background that you don't know about; dirty little microsoft secrets that are usually meant to help you connect to the net better and faster. Right. Well, I don't even have the internet, and I don't WANT the internet. I hate how XP keeps nagging you. Even when it's idle, the HD is working overtime, trying to keep up with XP's demands. It's annoying and I hate it. It's like XP is made for people who chat and surf the web all day, and not gamers. *sigh* I'm just not ready to make the transition, my PC can't handle it anyway.

Eh, how bout this: I'm just too lazy to have 2 OSs on my PC. I like to keep it simple. Call me weird, but I hate partitioning HDs- I just have a slave instead(which is a backup drive, not for a 2nd OS).

Sorry, but there'll be a BLIZZARD in HELL before I spend my hard earned cash on an ATI card. I'll say it again: that was not an insult aimed at ATI cards. They're fine for some people, but not for me.

Did you guys see my other posted message? Everyone here is a Descent series player, right? Than sign this petion for Descent4:

http://www.descent3fischlein.de/list/list_form.php4?lang=2

It was halted a while ago because they said that Descent3 didn't make enough money. That's hard to believe, being such a great game that it is. I mean, I bought it and loved it. Just do it-maybe we CAN get them to continue the Descent series.

according to this the eye can see more than 30fps and has no limit
http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html

It is not that Linux isn't friendly, it's just that linux knows to choose its friends.

"As for WinXP, all the PCs I've used it on go terribly slow(even with 512MB)"

I find this hard to believe, but it's tough to comment on without knowing all the particulars about the machines you tried it on.

"Windows has all sorts of programs and little things going on in the background that you don't know about"

There are several tweaks that should be done to XP to make it run better than it does "out of the box". And as for these "dirty little microsoft secrets"...once you learn about them, they're not secrets anymore, then you simply turn them off.

"Well, I don't even have the internet, and I don't WANT the internet"

You don't? You sure post in these forums often enough...how do you do it without the internet?

"I'm just too lazy to have 2 OSs on my PC. I like to keep it simple. Call me weird, but I hate partitioning HDs"

So if you were to buy a 200GB HDD you'd keep it that way? I can give you several reasons why you should partition your drive, can you give me one good reason why you shouldn't...besides being "weird" or "lazy"? If you're not too lazy, read this:

http://partition.radified.com/partitioning.htm

"there'll be a BLIZZARD in HELL before I spend my hard earned cash on an ATI card"

Maybe that's why you're stuck with an FX 5700LE that gets blown away by a $75 ATI Radeon 9550

Asus A7N8X-X
1800+ @ 8 x 210MHz
512MB PC3200
Asus Ti4800SE 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro

"As for WinXP, all the PCs I've used it on go terribly slow(even with 512MB)."

PEBCAK!

"Windows has all sorts of programs and little things going on in the background that you don't know about; dirty little microsoft secrets that are usually meant to help you connect to the net better and faster."

Learn the OS! Every OS has things that can and should be tweaked. Even your beloved Windows 98!

"Even when it's idle, the HD is working overtime, trying to keep up with XP's demands."

Then whoever built the system and installed the OS didn't have a clue what they were doing.

"It's like XP is made for people who chat and surf the web all day, and not gamers."

That's why most gamers run XP.

"I'm just not ready to make the transition, my PC can't handle it anyway."

You're not ready because you're not willing to learn a new OS, simple as that.

"Maybe that's why you're stuck with an FX 5700LE that gets blown away by a $75 ATI Radeon 9550"

ROFL! TROOOOOGDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR! :-)

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

No offense, but can we please get off this partitioning and dual booting kick? I'm not going to do it- let's just leave it at that. I'd like to use other ways to optimise my PC.

"You sure post in these forums often enough...how do you do it without the internet?"
That's a good question. I'm always at the library studying, so I just use the PCs there.

"PEBCAK!"
WTF does that mean?

"ROFL! TROOOOOGDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR! :-)"
Again: W-T-F?

"Maybe that's why you're stuck with an FX 5700LE that gets blown away by a $75 ATI Radeon 9550"
Hey-if only I would've known what the friggin "LE" meant!

"You're not ready because you're not willing to learn a new OS, simple as that."
Another reason is that I just recently got my boot time down to ~10secs. I don't want it to take 20mins...AGAIN. And the MAJOR one is that I don't have the money. What is it now...$150? Screw that!

I'm not sure if I've said this before, but I'll say it again for emphasis:
Do you know what XP REALLY stands for? Extra Profit. Or Extra Poop. Whichever you want. I've also heard Xcessive Problems. Accually I just made that last one up :-)

Man, we really like quoting each other.

PEBCAK...LOL...don't wanna give it away. :-)

Not knowing who Trogdor is...that's just just missing out on one of the golden nuggets of Internet humor... (you need sound)

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html

Basically, Jam burninated you in your thatched roof cottage.

"Another reason is that I just recently got my boot time down to ~10secs. I don't want it to take 20mins...AGAIN."

#1 - Umm, if you can't make an XP machine that can boot in less than 20 minutes...or 10 minutes...or 5 minutes...well, stop complaining until you learn how to do stuff right. Either that or your computer is WAAAY too slow. My P2 266 laptop could boot XP in less than 10 minutes with 128M RAM and a 6 gig drive.

#2 - Whoopty do if 98 boots faster than XP...XP is also 1000x more stable, more secure, and performs better with newer hardware. If that means an extra minute or two booting, why would you care?! Not to mention I can go months without rebooting XP aside from applying patches. Try that with Windows 98.

"And the MAJOR one is that I don't have the money. What is it now...$150?"

How much was Windows 98 when you bought it? How long ago was that? How much hardware did you buy since then? And you can't cough up around $100 for an OS that is leaps and bounds better?

And correction - Windows XP Home Upgrade is $110 shipped. OEM is $90.

"Do you know what XP REALLY stands for? Extra Profit. Or Extra Poop. Whichever you want. I've also heard Xcessive Problems."

Do you know what MCP stands for? Microsoft Certified Professional, which is what I am in XP Pro. To get certified, I had to learn in depth the differences between 98 and 2000/XP. If you're suggesting Windows 98 is a better operating system than XP, you need your head examined...or learn why XP is better. Of course Microsoft makes more profit with it - why do you think they made it? Does that matter when it's a better product?

Don't get me wrong, 98 was a fine OS for it's time, and certainly 98SE was the best of the Win9X line, but there simply is no comparison between 98 and XP.

Stick with 98 if you want, but you will be assimilated eventually.

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

Sure you didn't want to give it away, it was an insult. You need to knock that off. PEBCAK doesn't apply to me because hey-these aren't my computers.

"Not knowing who Trogdor is...that's just just missing out on one of the golden nuggets of Internet humor..."
I think I've seen it before, but I forgot the name. But still, what does it have to do with this? /:-|

"Basically, Jam burninated you in your thatched roof cottage."
Whatever that means.

So you can't deny that XP stands for Xtra Poop? You probably don't know what it stands for, do you? You know, it's hypocritical to say that 64bit CPUs are just a marketing scheme and at the same not make a big deal about Microsoft's backhanded motives behind XP. I would expect an MCP to be more aware of such things, or maybe they have you mesmerized by showing you the figure$ or just telling you the right words...

"My P2 266 laptop could boot XP in less than 10 minutes with 128M RAM and a 6 gig drive."
Who in their right mind would install such a bulky OS on a whimpy system like that? Poor little machine. Even if it did kind of run XP, the only programs it could handle wouldn't be compatable with XP(well, most of them). 10mins of boot time may be ok for you, but it would be an even longer wait to open anything on that laptop. You should stuck with Win95 for that one.

I got Win98SE for free from my friend who had a surplus of them while I already had the CD key from a broken retail Dell PC. The Dell had to be formatted and salvaged, but because it was retail, it only came with a Win98SE recovery CD, which had the CD key on it. So technically it was leagal, I already owned the CD key.
About the money-I spent most of my senior graduation money on my PC upgrades(the mobo, AthlonXP, and FX5700), and I only make like, ~$30 a month, maybe; because my parents still pay me to watch my little brother when they're gone.

Another thing is XP won't play some of my games. I have a lot of vintage DOS games that I play or even games from the 90s like Interstate76, Descent, RedBaron, A10, F22, etc. I'm sure because I've tried some of them on my parents' Dell, so don't tell me I'm stupid. And I'm not dual booting.
I may switch to WinXP once newer titles or DirectX won't support 98se, but oly after I upgrade to an Athlon64. When I DO buy XP, I'm not going the "upgrade" route-that means that I'll have to have another version of Winders on the HD beforehand. I like to begin with a clean slate and install the OS right after high-level formatting. It's a great feeling.

You guys sign the Descent4 petition yet? We're all Descent fans here, right? So sign it already! I can't do this alone. I hate pestering, but come on!

http://www.descent3fischlein.de/list/list_form.php4?lang=2

"Sure you didn't want to give it away, it was an insult. You need to knock that off. PEBCAK doesn't apply to me because hey-these aren't my computers."

I never said it was you. I said whoever set them up didn't do something right.

"Whatever that means."

Don't worry about it...

"So you can't deny that XP stands for Xtra Poop?"

Sure I can:

1. NTFS for better file security.
2. RDP.
3. True 32-bit OS.
4. Automated system recovery
5. You can still get current patches.
6. Actually manages memory over 256M effectively.
7. Better app compatibility than Windows 2000.
8. Native support for newer hardware.

That's just off the top of my head.

"You know, it's hypocritical to say that 64bit CPUs are just a marketing scheme and at the same not make a big deal about Microsoft's backhanded motives behind XP."

Umm, all the above features are useful TODAY! 64-bit unless you're running Windows is not. How is this hypocritical?

What backhanded motive? The real push is to get people to get to a true 32-bit OS. Windows 2000 presented some problems with consumers because of lack of support for various imaging devices, etc. XP took Windows 2000, and made it more appealing for consumers with better support for such devices. Due to the existance of 2000/XP for a longer period of time, more apps were already coded to run on 2000/XP, so that helped, too.

I'm not sure what backhanded motive besides making money; that's very overt. But in this case (unlike MANY MANY others in their history), they're doing it by making a better OS.

"Who in their right mind would install such a bulky OS on a whimpy system like that? Poor little machine. Even if it did kind of run XP, the only programs it could handle wouldn't be compatable with XP(well, most of them)."

First off, questioning me in that kind of tone is asking for trouble.

I'm in my right mind...well, most of the time anyway. I installed XP to have an Active Directory client when studying for my MCSE exams; otherwise, on THAT old of a system, I would run Windows 98. Is your system that craptastic? My point was only to illustrate that if you can't build a PC that can boot Windows XP in less than even 3 minutes with hardware even from two years ago, you really haven't a clue what you're doing.

"10mins of boot time may be ok for you"

No, it's not...none of my systems take remotely close to 10 minutes to boot other than that laptop, which takes about 10 minutes because it has to log into a domain. And again, it's for testing.

"About the money-I spent most of my senior graduation money on my PC upgrades(the mobo, AthlonXP, and FX5700), and I only make like, ~$30 a month, maybe; because my parents still pay me to watch my little brother when they're gone."

Learn XP, and get paid for implementing and fixing it. Pretty much anyone still running 98 won't pay much to get their PC fixed since they're not willing to spend even a little money to buy XP or a system with XP on it. (Plus, why pay someone even $100 to fix a computer when a new one 1000x faster with XP is $500 from Dell?) You can make serious cash doing simple things. I charge $75/hr for onsite labor, and I'm told I'm very cheap for how good my work is (just don't feel right asking for more). But to be valuable, you need knowledge in relevant, current technology. 98 is neither anymore.

"Another thing is XP won't play some of my games. I have a lot of vintage DOS games that I play or even games from the 90s like Interstate76, Descent, RedBaron, A10, F22, etc."

Dual boot, or have a separate 98 system for them. It's not like they're gonna run badly on old hardware. ;-) BTW, Decent 1 & 2 run on XP. Dunno about the others because I never played them.

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

Meant to say 64-bit is only valuable if you're running a 64-bit Linux...

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

Yeah sure those nifty little features you listed are fine, but do you REALLY know what XP stands for?

"What backhanded motive?"
Come on- it's Microsoft! We're talking about a massive monopoly-kind of corporation. Almost all companies that large have some hidden motive behind everything they do. I think you said something like that about AMD. It's called corruption; that's what happens to people with too much power and cash. Do you really think they truely and sincerely care about the users? Of course not! At least up to the point where they start losing money.

"questioning me in that kind of tone is asking for trouble."
Don't threaten me, so back the truck up, busta! I didn't mean to insult you at all. It just didn't make sense to me to put WinXP on a system like that. But now I know why and it makes a little more sense.
I got a PC from an auction with XP on it- It was a NetVista, and even with a P3 1Ghz with 128mb ram, it took at least 5min to boot. So I formatted it an put 98se on. It boots in ~15secs now and is extremely stable.

"Learn XP, and get paid for implementing and fixing it."
Yeah, I wish. That's a pie in the sky my friend. At least where I live. You know I applied for a job like that. They said I was underqualified(BS) and my friend was OVERqualified(BS upon BS). The techiest of the techies around here are bloodsuckers that take advantage of contry folk who just know they want the internet so they can email their clan o'er yonder. They have no clue as to how much PCs and components cost, poor people. I refuse to work for such injust and immoral satanists.

I hate to ask, but again- did you sign the damn petition yet!?!
http://www.descent3fischlein.de/list/list_form.php4?lang=2
You sound like a decent Descent player(pun intended). For the love of humanity-please do it!

And lets drop this, dual...boot...thing, ok? Fugeddaboudit!

Athlon XP 3000 400Mhz
Chaintech 7NJL3 mobo
nForce2 +MCP 400MHz FSB
GeForce FX 5700LE 256mb
40GB Seagate Baraccuda
40x LiteOn DVD
---
Feel the Force

"Yeah sure those nifty little features you listed are fine, but do you REALLY know what XP stands for?"

Xenophobic propalactic?

And once again, I showed you flat out why XP is better, and then you say weird stuff that makes no sense. Case in point...

"Come on- it's Microsoft! We're talking about a massive monopoly-kind of corporation. Almost all companies that large have some hidden motive behind everything they do. I think you said something like that about AMD. It's called corruption; that's what happens to people with too much power and cash. Do you really think they truely and sincerely care about the users? Of course not! At least up to the point where they start losing money."

No, I said it's good to have competition because it results in more innovation and better competition. If you want to promote competition, run linux, not Windows 98. However, in this case, XP is a solid product. I'm not gonna slam a Microsoft product because they're monopolistic. I'll slam it when it sucks...like WinME...or Internet Explorer...or Windows Media Player...hey, this is fun!

"I got a PC from an auction with XP on it- It was a NetVista, and even with a P3 1Ghz with *128mb ram*, it took at least 5min to boot. So I formatted it an put 98se on. It boots in ~15secs now and is extremely stable."

128M of RAM, huh? That's a problem. NOW, take the same machine, put in 512M of RAM, and compare XP to 98SE. XP will run better. Oh, and one more thing, boot times are inconsequential compared to other things like not having to reboot in the first place, and managing RAM better. Oh, and those "neat" things I mentioned before.

"They said I was underqualified(BS) and my friend was OVERqualified(BS upon BS). The techiest of the techies around here are bloodsuckers that take advantage of contry folk who just know they want the internet so they can email their clan o'er yonder. They have no clue as to how much PCs and components cost, poor people. I refuse to work for such injust and immoral satanists."

Who said anything about working for someone? Sounds to me like you got little competition, and the area is ripe for someone honest and competent to do the work, instead. So don't work for them; make your own pie! Plus, it's the perfect launching ground for a career in IT. Start with fixing individual PC's, work up to simple networks, and then do some small business servers.

After you work up some money from doing a few jobs, check this out!

https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40009735

$300 gets you a boatload of software you can learn with.

10 licenses for XP Pro
XP Media center
10 licences of Office 2003
10x Front Page
10x Virtual PC
Windows Server 2003
Exchange 2003
SQL 2000
Small Business Server 2003
ISA Server

There's an obscene amount more, but I can't remember it all.

"I hate to ask, but again- did you sign the damn petition yet!?!"

Nope. Good game for its time, but it was getting old by Decent 3 in my opinion. I play mostly Flight Sims and other military sims these days when I actually get a chance to play something.

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

"Xenophobic propalactic?"
I was right-you DON'T know what it stands for. Once again, just another one of Bill Gates' little dirty secrets. Don't take that comment too seriously(as you usually do :-).

"then you say weird stuff that makes no sense"
Define weird. That's kind of a realative term. That was a funny comeback of yours *snicker snicker*.

"put in 512M of RAM"
See? it is hardware hungry! BTW: that NetVista was a slightly used school PC, which was well taken care of and in great condition.

"like not having to reboot in the first place"
You mean you keep your PC on 24-7!? I'm afraid to say that that's not a very good idea my friend. Rebooting periodically is good for flushing out the ram and swap files along with updating the registry.

"Who said anything about working for someone? Sounds to me like you got little competition, and the area is ripe for someone honest and competent to do the work, instead. So don't work for them; make your own pie! Plus, it's the perfect launching ground for a career in IT. Start with fixing individual PC's, work up to simple networks, and then do some small business servers."
Dude, that's my dream job! But you come over here and meet these people surrounding me and you judge for yourself if that's possible. Esspecially with me living here for only ~3 years. You have to almost be related to at least 5 families in some way or another to get even the slightest of trust for their business. I'm a midwesterner, so I absolutely cannot grasp the things going on in these crazy and illogical people! I wanna get out of here! Besides, even though I'm 19 and am fully trained and capable of doing the tasks that you mentioned, folks still think I'm in middle school! Dumbasses-screw them. Resistance is futile. At least until I graduate and move to Iowa *sigh*- "Is it Heaven?"

"Nope. Good game for its time, but it was getting old by Decent 3 in my opinion."
I can't beleive you just said that! That hurts man *sob sob whine cry* (:-( Don't be so cruel. Even if you hate descent, sign it anyway. For me? Please please pretty please?(I'm giving you that puppy-eyed look, if you can't tell) :-) Please don't make me humiliate myself... Just do it. "You'll thank me later."

"See? it is hardware hungry!"

But it can do more with that hardware. If you're actually making that argument, then go back to DOS because a GUI is more "hardware hungry" than a command line.

"You mean you keep your PC on 24-7!? I'm afraid to say that that's not a very good idea my friend. Rebooting periodically is good for flushing out the ram and swap files along with updating the registry."

Yes, I leave my machine on 24/7. How on earth would you know it's not a good idea if the computer is running xp to do this since you don't have the OS? With Windows 98, you're right, you DO have to periodically reboot just to free up RAM and virtual memory. XP, you barely have to do this at all.

That's the thing. You keep thinking Windows 98 is like XP. The underlying architecture of XP is like Windows 2000/2003, both server class OS's. Servers aren't supposed to be rebooted because that means the server would be down. Consequently, 2000/2003 are made to not have to be rebooted. Since XP is based on the same code, it applies to XP. 99% reboots come from installing software, drivers, or patches. I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about, my friend.

Not to mention leaving my PC on allows my computer to run essential scheduled tasks such as Windows Update, anti-virus updates, and AV scans.

Consequently, my machine always runs tip top with the best security available. How about yours?

"You have to almost be related to at least 5 families in some way or another to get even the slightest of trust for their business."

Learn from Wal-Mart...everybody is a sucker for low prices. Do the same work for less, do impeccable work, treat customers with respect, and word of mouth will do the rest.

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

"But it can do more with that hardware."
Ok, you're right, but I can't afford to feed such a hungry monster and have the components necessary to get XP to run as fast as 98se.

"XP, you barely have to do this at all."
Sure, the OS can go without rebooting, but it IS a good idea to give your components a rest once in a while. And if you never shut down, how do you safely upgrade? Unsafely?

"That's the thing. You keep thinking Windows 98 is like XP."
No I don't. I'm not a newbie to OS's.

"Learn from Wal-Mart...everybody is a sucker for low prices. Do the same work for less, do impeccable work, treat customers with respect, and word of mouth will do the rest."
Dude, have you ever been to southern Ohio? The people may seem pleasant on the outside, but be around them for a month or two and you'll say, "What's wrong with these people!" Look at Portsmouth or Ironton- they're stuck in the 50s. Not like nostalgic stuff, I'm talking about still having the old ideals and atittudes of the past(not to mention 50s technology and archetecture). Everyone's so clan-ish and tight-knit that they don't trust outsiders, esspecially if they don't have a southern drawl(which I don't have on, thank God). Things never get done around here, and everything's old and run down. Except for the university because everyone's from up north or out of state. There's other people here doing as you say, but their business is not surviving-there's not enough customers anyway. Or they call Dell or whatever. Suckers. I hate 'em all. Hate them! I can't wait to graduate and get the hell out of here. It's a living nightmare.

Please rethink the Descent4 thing. At least visit the site. Please-just do it! I'm a flight sim fan myself, and they were good games for their time, but they're getting old by FlightSim 3 in my opinion. What flight and military sims? FS2004? Janes WW2Fighters(love it)? Comanche4? You haven't played Red Baron? And you call yourself a flight sim fan. tsk tsk. Of course you can't play it because you have XP. Too bad...

"Ok, you're right, but I can't afford to feed such a hungry monster and have the components necessary to get XP to run as fast as 98se."

Your sig reads...

Athlon XP 3000 400Mhz
Chaintech 7NJL3 mobo
nForce2 +MCP 400MHz FSB
GeForce FX 5700LE 256mb
40GB Seagate Baraccuda
40x LiteOn DVD

Don't have the hardware, huh? XP would run better on that system than 98 would, no question.

"Sure, the OS can go without rebooting, but it IS a good idea to give your components a rest once in a while. And if you never shut down, how do you safely upgrade? Unsafely?"

Giving my components a rest? No, it's not. Leaving your PC on all the time only wears out fans. Turning your PC off and on makes circuit boards more briddle over time. Replacing fans is easy. Either way, the hardware should last longer than its useful life, aside from changing a fan here or there. I have P1 233MMX motherboard based systems that still work.

ALL computers have to be turned off to replace hardware aside from some servers with hotswappable hardware. No idea what you meant by that.

"No I don't. I'm not a newbie to OS's."

That's like saying you're not a newbie to current events even though you haven't watched the news in years simply because you read some history books. You have no real experience in XP, yet you act like what applied to 98 applies to all OS's. You have no experience with server class OS's in general. Sounds like you don't know anything about 2000 or Linux, which not having to reboot the machine also applies. Sure, if you know windows 98, you pretty much know 95, and ME. But you haven't the foggiest idea about 2000 and XP. I call that being a newb to current OS's.

I also find it hilarious you're willing to argue about XP when you admit you have rarely used it, and you know darn well I'm certified in it, and have used it for years.

"What flight and military sims? FS2004? Janes WW2Fighters(love it)? Comanche4? You haven't played Red Baron? And you call yourself a flight sim fan. tsk tsk. Of course you can't play it because you have XP. Too bad..."

I did finish Doom3 and HL2 quite some time ago. I play Operation Flashpoint, the occasional jaunt in Call of Duty and expansion. I just got into flight sims last year; I'm currently playing IL-2 Forgotten Battles and its expansion, along with Lock On: Modern Air Combat, which I don't particularly care for. All of which btw run on XP better than they would on 98. Again, I stay current. Il-2: FB owns Jane's WW2 Fighters! ROFL!

Currently awaiting Operation Flashpoint 2, which is looking KILLER!

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

"Don't have the hardware, huh? XP would run better on that system than 98 would, no question."
I mean faster. XP leaves very little ram and resources for games and other apps. And I don't have the money to get the components needed to get XP to boot up and run as fast as my 98se config. It may be more stable, but I manage my PC well enough that I rarely have any errors or stability problems. There's also the problem of compatability with my current games; Want me to list a few that I have?

"Leaving your PC on all the time only wears out fans."
I hate that- they get all dusty and noisy. And you gotta power down to clean 'em once in a while. Not to mention blow your case out to clean out the dust.

"You have no experience with server class OS's"
That doesn't matter because I don't own a server or do stuff like that. And I probably won't unless my future career depends on it.

"You have no real experience in XP, yet you act like what applied to 98 applies to all OS's."
Don't jump to conclusions, that's what go ME into trouble earlier. Remember?- the nvidia vs ati thing?

"Sounds like you don't know anything about 2000 or Linux"
Not true. I used NT/2000 for 2 years(doing OS tweaks & hardware stuff etc, not just fiddling around with basic desktop tasks) and I took 2 hardcore college classes on linux.

"not having to reboot the machine also applies."
Again, not true. And I was refering to hardware, not software. I'm sure XP can handle it; well, by what you say. I turn my PC off when I'm done and it isn't "briddle"; and, after all, I do care about enrgy conservation, unlike some people.

"you have rarely used it"
Sigh *rolling eyes* once again- NOT TRUE.

You're assuming stuff left and right! Assuming makes an ass out of you and me. Remember that.

"All of which btw run on XP better than they would on 98."
That's because they're all pretty new games.

"Il-2: FB owns Jane's WW2 Fighters!"
WTF!?! A game owning a game? Have you played WW2 Fighters? It's a full and completely seperate game! Why is being wrong about that so funny? ROFL

Operation Flashpoint had a neat concept, but got a 70% from pcgamer. Not that I trust solely on pcgamer for chosing wheather or not I buy a game, it's just it had some significant flaws, and the expansion didn't address them either. But maybe no.2 will be better.

Chaintech 7NJL3 mobo
nForce2 +MCP 400 chipset
GeForce FX 5700 LE 256MB
---
Feel the Force

"I mean faster. XP leaves very little ram and resources for games and other apps. And I don't have the money to get the components needed to get XP to boot up and run as fast as my 98se config."

Unless you're running less than 256M RAM, XP would run better.

"That doesn't matter because I don't own a server or do stuff like that."

It does when you're making generalizations about OS's you know little about. XP doesn't need to be rebooted but rarely, end of story. 98 MUST be frequently rebooted.

"Don't jump to conclusions, that's what go ME into trouble earlier. Remember?- the nvidia vs ati thing?"

Umm, if it's true you have experience in linux and Windows 2000/XP, and then you're completely ignorant when saying you should frequently reboot them. Anyone with any amount of knowledge of them would agree with me. Basically that means your experience is pretty shallow, and for your own sake, I don't believe you have any.

Also, taking a class isn't experience. Working with the technology is experience.

"You're assuming stuff left and right! Assuming makes an ass out of you and me. Remember that."

You don't have real experience in 2000/XP. Sorry.

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

"You don't have real experience in 2000/XP. Sorry."
Ok, this is the third time *rolling eyes* I've said this: you're jumping to conclusions and assuming. I don't think you know me well enough to say that. How do you know how much experience I've had? We've only been communication via message board! And you don't know what the class was like or what we did! We were "Working with the technology." I guess where you come from classes consist of pure lecture about how to use a mouse and learn the "home-row."

"you're completely ignorant when saying you should frequently reboot them."
What'd I say earlier? Oh, yeah:
"I was refering to hardware, not software. I'm sure XP can handle it[go without rebooting]."

"98 MUST be frequently rebooted."
It just needs to be shut down on a resonably time basis. Like when you're not going to use it for a long while. And besides-if you don't take breaks and stretch(not to mention taking care of yourself like, eat and sleep) it's unhealthy. Also, it's not fun when you receive those high power bills from the computer constantly running; or your Dad charging you for it after a while.

You just like to contradict everything I say, don't you? Why do you hate me?

Chaintech 7NJL3 mobo
nForce2 +MCP 400 chipset
GeForce FX 5700 LE 256MB
---
Feel the Force

"I've said this: you're jumping to conclusions and assuming. I don't think you know me well enough to say that. How do you know how much experience I've had?"

If you said the things you're saying to people who have real experience, they'd laugh in your face. I should know; I myself and the people I work with are Windows engineers, most of them certified with many years of experience working with and implementing the technology.

"And you don't know what the class was like or what we did! We were "Working with the technology." I guess where you come from classes consist of pure lecture about how to use a mouse and learn the "home-row.""

I've taken Windows 2000 classes onsite at Microsoft as I used to be a senior product support engineer contractor there. I did MOC, with hands on labs. Best training on Windows 2000 you can get, including implementing, troubleshooting, performance tuning for individual workstations to multiprocessor servers. I think it's safe to say your classes wouldn't be in the same ballpark. But you know what? THAT isn't even real experience. So no, my classes didn't consist of pure lecture. What was that about assuming again? :-P

Even the best classes provide simulations engineered to work to make their points, but what if the system wasn't in that ideal state? Did the lab show you how to fix that? Nope.

Bottom line is if you can't make XP run as well at the very least on a computer with hardware as new as yours as Windows 98, you again don't know what you're doing, whether you went to a class or not.

"What'd I say earlier? Oh, yeah:
"I was refering to hardware, not software. I'm sure XP can handle it[go without rebooting].""

Hardware runs fine being on all the time, and has been that way for a VERY LONG TIME. In fact, many components are on a low power or power off mode during inactivity. Turning your PC off all the time when not in use has been a myth for many years now. Exception would be if you have poor electricity provided to the computer, which can be corrected with a UPS.

Again, if what you are saying is true, why are servers left on ALL THE TIME?! Server hardware is made from the same materials as desktop systems. It's still silicon, metal, plastics, etc. Your argument doesn't hold water.

"And besides-if you don't take breaks and stretch(not to mention taking care of yourself like, eat and sleep) it's unhealthy."

Leave your PC on, turn your monitor off. Proceed to be one with civilization...or food...or your bed...

"Also, it's not fun when you receive those high power bills from the computer constantly running; or your Dad charging you for it after a while."

If your monitor is off, and your computer is on, 24/7, 365 days a year, that amounts to a grand total of about $25 of electricity.

"You just like to contradict everything I say, don't you? Why do you hate me?"

LOL, I don't hate you. I just love how you're adamant about this stuff, and you're willing to argue with someone working in IT professionally, is MCSE, and has way more experience and knowledge than you do. It would be the equivalent of me arguing with my mechanic about how a car works, hence why I don't argue with him, nor do I go out of my way to tell other people about how cars work.

MCSE, MCSA Messaging, baby!

we have a rather interesting forumite here.refusing to upgrade his OS and refuse to have an internet connection but wants to play a top end game like HL2.in case u don't know, HL2 needs an internet connection.not a 56k but at least a broadband connection.ignorant is bliss at times,but u just got to see the real world.

oh did i add i also have a 5700LE and its running fine.i'm not complaining although it is relatively lower in specs.its a budget card and it works fine for me,slowing down only once in HL2 in a scene.

XP WILL BURY YOU!!! ;-)

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

Ermmm, I don't want to interrupt anything here, but LINUX RULEZ!!!!!!

It is not that Linux isn't friendly, it's just that linux knows to choose its friends.

I'd berate you for hijacking this thread, but this thread is pointless anyway. LOL...

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

Hehe, just wanted to say something, the argue is getting interesting

It is not that Linux isn't friendly, it's just that linux knows to choose its friends.

"THAT isn't even real experience."
Ok, so what you're saying is that if an employer sees my 4yr degree in technology (and if he's smart by your standards) he'll turn me away and say,"That's not 'real experience'"? Then what am I going to college for!?! I already have enough hands on experience with PCs to impress most tech employers around my area, but they won't even look at me in the eyes unless I have a degree or "real experience" by their definition, not yours. So I do have experience- the difference is I'm not being trained to kiss the right hand of Bill Gates, if you get my drift. And the classes you're taking are most likely designed to be considered "real experience" by whoever you come across, kind of like what I just said above about my tech classes.

"you again don't know what you're doing, whether you went to a class or not."
You still can't say that.

"Hardware runs fine being on all the time, and has been that way for a VERY LONG TIME."
Now that I think about it, that's not true for some configs, maybe your hardware can handle it, but not mine...or any other of my PCs around the house.

"Turning your PC off and on makes circuit boards more briddle over time."
RRRRIIIIIIIGHT...Ok like HOW long? Has this strange and unusual phenomenon happened to you? Maybe this is one of the major reasons for you why you leave your PC on constantly-you're afraid of your PCBs turning into peanut brittle. I hate peanut brittle, so maybe you've changed my mind *snicker* LOL ROFL!

"Turning your PC off all the time when not in use has been a myth for many years now."
Hey! Great idea for Mythbusters! Maybe I'll suggest it to them. :->

"Your argument doesn't hold water."
Why would I want it to "hold water?" It's bad for electronics ;-)

"If your monitor is off, that amounts to a grand total of about $25 of electricity."
Yeah, I know the major chunck of power is sucked by the monitor, but still- I can see a difference. Besides-if the PCs on, then the monitor's on, because I play games, bayba!(except for during a system diagnostic).

Probably the biggest reason for system shutdown is the noise. I know I could switch to quieter cooling systems(like passive heat sinks, or water)but both are risky and I am NOT going to fiddle with the CPU, I worked hard enough getting that b---tard anchored, and I'm not touching it. Also, it's distracting while I'm trying to do my homework-I hear it on, and I get...ideas...if you can guess.

"not a 56k but at least a broadband connection"
Uh, yeah, I wish nestor. And it's because I don't have a connection like that (and money) that I'm not in touch with HL2 and it's interworkings. Because I'm still living at home, there's no way my Dad will let me have a connection like that anyway. And I don't have a job; well I do get paid to watch my brother occasionally, but it's not enough to finance something like that. Bummer, huh?
As far as my 5700LE, it even lags (down to somewhere around 30fps[from 100+ FPS]) during Quake3, but that's with max detail, the Excessive Plus mod, and at least 8 or 9 bots. But I mean, come one-it's just Quake3! It's pretty old; I'd expect it to not lag at all, even during stressful times. It sucks! Weird thing is that NOLF2 never lags and I mean NEVER. Even on max detail (it kept asking me to raise detail) and tons of polys on screen! And that game's from 2002 or 3. Odd. BTW: everyone who calls themself a gamer should play No One Lives Forever2; and #1 while they're at it. :-)

Chaintech 7NJL3 mobo
nForce2 +MCP 400 chipset
GeForce FX 5700 LE 256MB
---
Feel the Force

"Ok, so what you're saying is that if an employer sees my 4yr degree in technology (and if he's smart by your standards) he'll turn me away and say,"That's not 'real experience'"? Then what am I going to college for!?!"

College degrees show perserverance and willingness to commit. I applaud you getting a degree if and only if you get it quickly in IT, because it doesn't do a whole lot for you other than that aside from giving you foundational knowledge. I'm not picking on you about this; seriously, you need to get experience, too.

That means get your hands on the technology, break it, and learn how to fix it. For example, get your hands on Windows 2003 Server, learn how to make a domain controller, and then purposely burn Active Directory into the ground, and learn how to fix it. Take every opportunity to learn something. You not running XP is a perfect example of NOT doing that. It's a perfect opportunity for you to learn how to get stuff to run that doesn't out of the box, or performance tune it, etc. etc.

Get industry certifications (Cisco, Microsoft, Linux, CISSP, etc.) What you call learning to kiss Bill Gates's right hand gets me jobs, and gets me paid VERY well. You often don't even get to the interview without it. I know guys who can kick my butt in this stuff, but because they never bothered to get certified, they don't even get a chance to show what they know. Now, you can call it whatever you want to call it, but the fact is I get paid! It's not only what you know, but convincing other people of what you know. Certifications aren't everything, experience is much more valuable, but certifications help a lot in convincing others that not only do you have experience, but you know it inside and out.

"I already have enough hands on experience with PCs to impress most tech employers around my area, but they won't even look at me in the eyes unless I have a degree or "real experience" by their definition, not yours."

LOL, dude, that must be a pathetic market. I'm being paid $100,000/yr. with no degree in IT (Master's in History, I switched careers), just a boatload of experience and MCSE. The only interviews I went to that wanted college degrees were BS jobs that wanted to pay me as a beginner because the market where I used to live was craptastic.

"RRRRIIIIIIIGHT...Ok like HOW long? Has this strange and unusual phenomenon happened to you? Maybe this is one of the major reasons for you why you leave your PC on constantly-you're afraid of your PCBs turning into peanut brittle."

It would take a long time for that to happen. But read what I said, either leaving it on or off won't reduce the life of the device shorter than it's useful life. In other words, in both cases, you'll probably end up getting rid of it because it's "old crap" before it actually dies. :-) (think 486 CPU based systems of today)

I leave mine on because I have tasks running overnight like defrag, chkdsk, AV scans, spyware scans, downloads, whatever. My point is it doesn't hurt to do this.

"Probably the biggest reason for system shutdown is the noise."

Valid point to shut it down if it's that loud.

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

I personally don't like the fact that I need to spend lots of cash to get a Windows server running, while I can do the same with Linux, I am a Certified Linux and Cisco engineer, and have actively taken part in the development of Linux for the AMD64 platform, and yes, its a lot more work to do to get one Linux server up, but its worth it in the long run.

"I leave mine on because I have tasks running overnight like defrag, chkdsk, AV scans, spyware scans, downloads, whatever. My point is it doesn't hurt to do this."

Okay, another fact that I like of not having windows, is that defrag thing, with other superior filesystems (ext2, ext3, reiser fs), you don't have the need to do that, Microsoft should have supported these long ago, instead of making its own, personally I hope this won't be an issue with the WinFS anymore.

I run a University's internal network, and its website, with Linux, and have not had any problems yet regarding security, but if I do, I can make my own patch and problem solved.

It is not that Linux isn't friendly, it's just that linux knows to choose its friends.

Linux is a great OS, no doubt about it.

Better than Windows?

Both have advantages and disadvantages. I like them both, really depends on what you're trying to do. When Linux is done right, I love it. Case in point, I run a Linux firewall/router using IPCop. I love it! And for specific application servers, Linux is amazing. I ran an Operation Flashpoint game server. With the same hardware, I switched to Linux, and it ran noticeably better.

Without a doubt, Windows is easier to administer. Active Directory and the tools to administer it are very cool. Plus you got stuff like Remote Desktop Protocol that Linux is still trying to catch up to. (VNC isn't even close.)

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"

"dude, that must be a pathetic market."
It's REALLY pathetic, but don't call me pathetic.

"College degrees show perserverance and willingness to commit. I applaud you getting a degree if and only if you get it quickly in IT, because it doesn't do a whole lot for you other than that aside from giving you foundational knowledge."
Dude, college degrees are simply there to get you into the job. It's not good for anything else(for me anyway). If I could get hired just by experience, I'd say college can go to ****ING HELL! BTW: do you have a degree in tech? You sound like you don,t-just a certification. Hey, that's fine if you're gonna stay in Microsoft city, but if by some powerfull work of The Almighty, Bill Gates' baby goes under, what good is a Microsoft Certification? You need a degree for an employer outside of that area to even look at your resume. That's why I'm going to college and not some tech school where they only have certificates. Don't get me wrong-I'm sure I'd like it much more than college, but I'll be better off with a 4yr degree in technology(3D animation currently).

"For example, get your hands on Windows 2003 Server, learn how to make a domain controller, and then purposely burn Active Directory into the ground, and learn how to fix it."
LOL. Let me make myself clear: I'm talking about my gaming machine here. If I wan't experience with 2003 Server and networks, yadda yadda, then I'll go to college or buy equipment for that kind of stuff(that is, once I hit a goldmine). But I won't use my Athlon for WAN hosting or any tasks other than gaming. It's strickly a gaming PC. GAMING. Not MS certification-type "experience". Now if I had a second P4/ATI PC(fast enough to run XP), than I would be dabbling in that stuff. But look at what my current concentration is: 3D animation. Therefore, I have loads of games and this nifty and VERY capable 3D program called Blender. Weird name for a 3D thingy huh? It's free, ~10MBs, and open source. Go to blender3d.org and see some of the screenshots for yourself, they're just as good as 3DsMax. And it's FREE! Ok, enough...

"It would take a long time for that to happen."
Exactly my point. Now, there's no need to worry about powering down anymore, is there? I upgrade about every 4years anyway. Then I give my old system to my brother so we can play my newer-old games 2player via LAN. Yes, I have a small LAN with a few NIC cards and one switch; but no modem.

"Valid point to shut it down if it's that loud."

Doesn't yours make noise? And doesn't it annoy and distract you? Maybe you're different, but I have a slight case of ESP and can't block it out. I HATE it. And sometimes the noises sound like my fans are about to quit. You probably know how long it takes for an AthonXP to fry without a fan. Uh-huh, really fast. Sometimes too fast to shutdown windows. Esspecially when it's running a speed-intensive app like Mafia or NOLF2. Ouch.

Chaintech 7NJL3 mobo
nForce2 +MCP 400 chipset
GeForce FX 5700 LE 256MB
---
Feel the Force

Absolutely agree with you, but never said Linux was better than Windows

It is not that Linux isn't friendly, it's just that linux knows to choose its friends.

Yeah VNC is not that evolutioned, anyway I guess thats the cost of being cross platform, maybe I'll get into the development of some protocol comparable to that of RDP for Linux. Would be certainly cool and useful.

It is not that Linux isn't friendly, it's just that linux knows to choose its friends.

"It's REALLY pathetic, but don't call me pathetic."

Did I?

"Dude, college degrees are simply there to get you into the job. It's not good for anything else(for me anyway)."

That was what I was trying to tell you. In IT, a college degree doesn't mean much at all. Why would you hire someone to admin your modern network of Linux, Solaris, Windows, Cisco routers and switches, etc. who graudated from college with a general computer science degree when you have no guarantee they've used the equipment you're using? Industry certs prove (to a better degree at least) that they in fact HAVE used the equipment.

"BTW: do you have a degree in tech? You sound like you don,t-just a certification."

I told you I have a degree in history. Actually, it's a bachelor's degree in history, a minor in international relations, and a master's in teaching. That's it. Nothing like tons of experience, studying, and constantly keeping my skillset updated and relevant. :-)

"Hey, that's fine if you're gonna stay in Microsoft city, but if by some powerfull work of The Almighty, Bill Gates' baby goes under, what good is a Microsoft Certification?"

I have some experience in Linux as well, not to mention vasts sums of knowledge in hardware and general networking.

If Microsoft ceased to exist today, their servers would still be around for a good three years as companies would have to transition. So I'd have time to adapt and update my skillset, which I'm doing anyway. Doesn't matter, Microsoft will be around for a long long long time.

"You need a degree for an employer outside of that area to even look at your resume."

BS.

"I won't use my Athlon for WAN hosting or any tasks other than gaming. It's strickly a gaming PC. GAMING."

Use "old crap". And like I said, XP would run new games better. Dual boot is an option, but I'm tired of arguing this with you. It's like rearranging deck furniture on the Titanic.

"Now if I had a second P4/ATI PC(fast enough to run XP), than I would be dabbling in that stuff."

No you wouldn't. You already said getting certifications is equivalent to selling your soul to Satan.

"Therefore, I have loads of games and this nifty and VERY capable 3D program called Blender."

Which would run better in XP because XP manages memory better. Neither here or there, go ahead with your gfx design stuff.

"Now, there's no need to worry about powering down anymore, is there?"

I never said there was. YOU said leaving the computer on all the time was bad for the components. I simply blew that argument up, showing you that turning it off and on has risks, too.

"I upgrade about every 4years anyway. Then I give my old system to my brother so we can play my newer-old games 2player via LAN."

I use mine to learn stuff like Windows 2003 server, linux, whatever. My original Windows 2000 test server was a Pentium MMX 233MHz with 128M RAM. Ran like crap, but it ran, and I learned Active Directory with it. THEN I got paid good money doing network jobs.

Currently, I have my Athlon @ 2.4GHz for gaming, I have an Athlon 2500 @ 2.2GHz as an XP workstation, running Virtual PC, which allows me to create an entire AD network with a domain controller, Exchange server, and an XP client all on the same computer. Now I can have virtually an unlimited amount of test environments. Then I have an Athlon 1700 for Linux. Finally have a Celeron @ 450MHz running IPCop for a firewall/router. How did I afford all this equipment? Fixing PC's and doing network jobs, or just getting hand me down equipment for some parts like drives, etc. It pays to invest in yourself.

"...but in my defense, it was dark, I was drunk, and it was delicious!"