Name: XerionX Date: September 4, 2006 at 05:13:34 Pacific Subject: Is my PSU & RAM enough for SLI? OS: Windows XP Service Pack 2 CPU/Ram: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Model/Manufacturer: Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra SLI
Comment:
Hey, I have a PC now I want to upgrade. I want to upgrade my proccessor from AMD Athlon 3200+ Venice Core (939 Socket) to AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Toledo Core (939 Socket not AM2). I also have a Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra SLI motherboard with 1x Gigabyte GeForce 6600 256MB 128Bit Graphic Card, and I wish to add another one (I read that for some reason they don't need to be connected via SLI connector). Currently I'm using the motherboard's sound card, but I want to buy a Creative Audigy ZS 2, with Creative Inspire T6060 5.1 surround system.
I have a 400W ATX 12V FSP PSU and 2x512 MB DDR SDRAM (I don't know which... It says on them MDT DDR 512MB 3200).
Can anyone tell me if the PSU & Ram I have now are enough? I use SyncMaster T710 as a monitor. 160GB Sata HD (I think WesternDigital).
The X2 3800+ Toledo has 1/2 the L2 cache disabled, so in that respect, it's the same as the Manchester. However, the Manchester runs at 89W while the Toledo runs at 110W. If you're not gonna run programs or games that take advantage of the dual core, going from a 3200+ single to a 3800+ dual isn't much of an upgrade.
Your RAM has nothing to do with your CPU upgrade...as long as you have some decent PC3200, you'll be fine.
Your 400W FSP PSU may or may not be OK for SLi, but IMO, running 2 x 6600 in SLi is a complete waste of money anyway. The 6600 isn't that great to begin with. You'd be better off selling the one you have for $40-50 & getting a decent single card.
I have an AMD Athlon XP 3200+ Venice Core and a Gigabyte GeForce 6600 256MB PCI-E I want to upgrade.
I use a Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra SLI motherboard (Socket 939) and I don't really have much money to buy a new motherboard aswell so I'll have to buy a 939 socket proccessor...
Regardless the Creative Audigy ZS 2 and the Creative Inspire T6060, my budget is kinda low, so I can afford getting up to something like an AMD Athlon X2 3800+ Socket 939 (Which I'm pretty sure it's the Toledo core) and graphic-wise I can afford another 6600 to SLI my system.
I'm using FSP 400W 12V PSU.
Can you help me upgrade my system? The 3800+ and another 6600 were my ideas, but really I don't know much about hardware value, if you could tell me a bit more... I don't really want to buy anything more expensive than what I wrote... I guess I could sell the 6600 I have and buy a different graphic card.
Anyway, what do you say about the Creative Audigy ZS 2 and the surround system? Is that a good buy or should I reconsider that aswell? I want a surround system and a good sound card (I never had a sound card different from the one the motherboard gives, but I've heard it's a great difference). And the Inspire T6060 is quite cheap and good quality.
Another thing, My DDRs have bad timing, will it reduce my SLI quality or my games performance? I don't know which program or games use dual core, but I mainly play first person shooters and hmm... Microsoft Flight Simulator X, going to play Neverwinter Nights 2 aswell...
Ok, I've checked prices and I've seen a Venice Core 4000+ proccessor (yes, 3800+ isn't max... 4000+ is) and it's even cheaper than the dual core toledo 3800+... so that's a better buy isn't it?
About the GPU, well... I found that the "nVIDIA GeForce PX7600GT 256MB Leadtek" is quite a nice price, although it's almost double from the 6600, it looks good and from the money I save from the CPU if I buy the 4000 Venice and the money from selling the 6600 I already own, I could afford it... On the other hand there's the " nVIDIA GeForce FX7600GS 256MB PCIe Gigabyte" which looks real good and is only 2/3 the price of the GT one... What do you say? Which one should I buy?
You sure I don't a CPU upgrade? I want to play my games faster - plain simple... I figured CPU upgrade (from 3200+ to 4000+) will boost my games 20%... Isn't it true?
I've checked Venice 4000+ and San Diego 3700+ price are exactly the same. I don't intend to overclock. Anyway, if I want to upgrade the CPU, should I buy the 4000 venice or 3700 SD?
And why wouldn't I want to upgrade? for games isn't it better (800Mhz bump from 3200 to 4000).
I don't think a CPU upgrade is totally stupid, but if you're gonna do it, do it right. X2 4400 has 1M cache per core. That is the CPU to get if you're going to replace the CPU. Honestly, I don't even think the 3700 is a smart move. Sure it's faster than the 3200, but it's not $100 faster.
With that said, you should buy a better video card than a 7600GT. Go for the 7900GT, and sit on your CPU for awhile. The X2 4400 has to fall in price to be competitive with Intel's Core 2 Duos.
"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
Well, let me comment on what you said. Obviously, you know more than me since I know nothing ;)
My budget is quite low... So I'll tell you what I can afford... I can afford to buy a 7900GT (Btw, should I buy factory OCed for more $ or should I just OC it at home?) IF and only IF I drop the CPU idea (I'm planning to keep this computer without upgrading after this upgrade for a long while.. need to save money)
About the sound card... I can't afford more than Audigy ZS 2 actually... I can get the X-Fi Xtreme Music (the worst from the X-Fi series) at a double price but that would really kill my budget, and won't really leave me any choice for upgrading my PSU to support the 7900GT...
About the speakers - the T6060 is HALF the price of the Z-5300 where I live, and the only Logitech I prolly can afford is the X530 which looks worse than the T6060 really but quite the same price...
"About the sound card... I can't afford more than Audigy ZS 2 actually... I can get the X-Fi Xtreme Music (the worst from the X-Fi series) at a double price but that would really kill my budget, and won't really leave me any choice for upgrading my PSU to support the 7900GT..."
Then screw getting the soundcard. Stick with what you have, and then get the X-5300e's. They rival good home theater speakers.
The X-530's are decent speakers. My only complaint is they're WAY too boomy on the bass. I had to cut my subwoofer all the way to the lowest volume on a carpeted floor to get even a decent balanced sound.
Creative speakers simply aren't good, period.
And look at it this way - sound cards come and go. Good speakers now are good speakers five years from now. Get good speakers first! You can always add a soundcard later.
"I can afford to buy a 7900GT (Btw, should I buy factory OCed for more $ or should I just OC it at home?) IF and only IF I drop the CPU idea (I'm planning to keep this computer without upgrading after this upgrade for a long while.. need to save money)"
You're still better off with a 7900GT without a CPU upgrade. Now, if I were you, I'd get the 79000GT, and save for the X2 4400, which should fall massively in price early next year. It's already $230 USD, down from $430 just a month and a half ago. I think a $175 USD pricetag wouldn't be far fetched, and it's possible it could be down to $150.
"should I buy factory OCed for more $ or should I just OC it at home?"
Depends on the price. If it's a few more dollars only, sure. If it's significantly more, don't bother.
"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
Well, What I have now is the motherboard's soundcard, and I never had a different soundcard before but I've heard the difference is awsome! So, wouldn't it be a waste to buy good speakers with a no-good soundcard? And I think the Z-5300 idea is not really practical because it really costs alot... At least where I live... I can easily purchase X530 or T6060 but not the Z-5300...
I'll tell you what products the shop sells, at prices I can "easily" purchase:
"What I have now is the motherboard's soundcard, and I never had a different soundcard before but I've heard the difference is awsome! So, wouldn't it be a waste to buy good speakers with a no-good soundcard?"
I'm an audiophile. I LOVE good sound. I do enjoy my X-Fi quite a bit. However, the onboard sound cards these days are nothing to sneeze at. Trust me - get good speakers first.
"And I think the Z-5300 idea is not really practical because it really costs alot... At least where I live... I can easily purchase X530 or T6060 but not the Z-5300..."
Well, listen to both first, and make your decision. If I were gonna base it off brand name (not a good idea), logitech has made WAY better speakers for the last several years, so I'd honestly go logitech between the two. But I haven't heard that specific model of Creative speakers.
The Z640 are older, but if memory serves me right, they actually sound better than the X-530's.
Altec Lansing used to be very good, but the last few I've known from people I know that purchased them were not happy with the sound nor quality. It's a shame; my wife has my Altec Lansing 4.1's I used before my X-530's, and they sound very good.
"I remind you it's all assumptions based on price not products tech-specs, which means that I know nothing..."
DO NOT TRUST SPECS ON PC AUDIO PRODUCTS!
Some of the claims for specs on pc audio equipment is exaggerated to the point that they're meaningless. They often list peak power without RMS, and the RMS ratings are bullcrap, too. Frequency response specs are often bold faced lies.
Go listen to them in person, and make your decision. DO NOT GET PULLED INTO TONS OF BASS AS DEFINING GOOD SOUND! While responsive bass is a good thing, many speaker makers pump the bass up and give you little midrange response, which gives you a horrible sound.
"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
So when you say "Get good speakers first", you should erase the first, and say "Get good speakers, with no soundcard at all".
Also, where I live, I cannot test the quality of the sound systems by myself, they come packed and there's no shop that demonstrates their quality. So I will have to be based on internet reviews.
Regarding the CPU, do you think it's better to be 3 years with better CPU or better GPU? I mean, in 3 years, what will do me more good, an X2 4400+ with a 7600GT or a 7900GT with a 3200+ Venice?
That's for that.
Now for the speakers ;)
For some reason I thought the Z640 is newer (Maybe due to it's name over X530). Someone said the X530 has a "directed sound", he says he can't get out of his chair if he wants to hear good sound, which is not so good for me, because the bed is near my computer, and I'd still want to hear good music when I go to sleep, or such...
I think I missled you when I said things about tech-spec and such...
I have no idea what RMS or any of those terms mean. I have absolutly no idea in speakers. If I would have to decide which speaker-system I should buy without any "outside" knowledge, I'd go with the one that looks best :D I truly need help in this area.
Thanks ALOT for helping me, you're really great. You caught me a day or two before actually buying the components I wanted in the first place, so you probably saved me from missery :)
"So when you say "Get good speakers first", you should erase the first, and say "Get good speakers, with no soundcard at all"."
I mean that Z-5300e's with onboard sound will sound better than say X-530's (or comparable) with an X-Fi sound card. Better speakers are a higher priority.
"Also, where I live, I cannot test the quality of the sound systems by myself, they come packed and there's no shop that demonstrates their quality. So I will have to be based on internet reviews."
Unfortunately, online reviewers suck for audio products. I'm sorry, but NO ONE has a clue in computer hardware what good sound is.
If you were going to purchase based solely on name brands, Logitech is a better choice than Creative, just in reliability alone.
Speaking of people not knowing about sound...
"Someone said the X530 has a "directed sound", he says he can't get out of his chair if he wants to hear good sound, which is not so good for me, because the bed is near my computer, and I'd still want to hear good music when I go to sleep, or such..."
No speakers at that price range image well at all. If you want some that image better, Z-5300e's.
"Regarding the CPU, do you think it's better to be 3 years with better CPU or better GPU?"
GPU still for gaming. Everything else, CPU.
"For some reason I thought the Z640 is newer (Maybe due to it's name over X530)."
Negative, they're discontinued.
www.logitech.com
Notice they're not in the current lineup of products.
"I have no idea what RMS or any of those terms mean. I have absolutly no idea in speakers."
RMS = sustained power Peak power = Power peek speakers can provide for small increments of time but cannot sustain Frequency response = how low (first number, ie bass) and how high (second number, treble) frequency the speakers can produce
Those are the big ones you should look at, except for peak power. Completely disregard peak power.
For frequency response, it can help you gauge how low and high of sound the speakers will play, but missing here is how well the speaker reproduces midrange sound, or if the speakers fall short in certain frequencies in between. Unfortunately, you will not find that information for PC speakers, as reviewers who are that meticulous work for home theater publications, and reviewing PC speakers for them would be sacriligous and "slumming it" considering they review speakers that cost individually $1000 or more often times.
Also, it's common that speaker makers lie about these specs in PC speakers, since no one is actually reviewing them and testing to see if they're actually accurate, so there's no accountability.
With that said, two names come to mind when choosing good PC speakers with truly good speakers (as far as PC speakers go) - Klipsch and Logitech. Klipsch undoubtedly sound better, but they've had quality issues, and they're priced outrageously.
I highly urge you to consider the Z-5300e's. They sound like what you're looking for. While still boomy in the bass, they are THX certified for PC speakers, and do have good midrange response, and image okay for PC speakers. This is coming from an X-530 owner who auditioned the Creative speakers available at that price range at the time of purchase. I'd have gotten the Z-5300e's, but they were way more expensive at the time than they are now. I'm in fact seriously considering replacing my X-530's with a set of them.
One last thing to point out about the speakers you choose. Come three years from now, you will be facing replacing your CPU, video card, and probably your soundcard no matter which ones you choose. However, you'll probably be keeping your speakers. Smart money would be on good speakers. "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
Most people would have a somewhat difficult time hearing the difference between onboard sound card and an Audigy 2. However, most people would easily hear the difference between the X-530's and the Z-5300e's.
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