I highly recommend "PSU: the Curse of jam"... Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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Its the blessings of jam that has kept my psu running so long. The common opinion seems to be that my psu should have definitely gone pop by now, ha. I know jam prays for my psu. Sarosh

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Dudes, Recommend me some awesome stragergy like Ceasar III where there is commerce, trade, building, selling, etc. I love such games. Sarosh

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how about Ceasar III... sounds pretty good TJ297 All Prices are in Auzzie Dollars =D AMD 3800+ 2 Gig RAM Nvidia 7800GT Thermaltake 430w PSU Antec LAN-boy Case Onboard Sound WOOOOT Surprisingly not bad :p

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I played Ceasar 3 like many times, and I still love it. I want another game that is similar to it. Recommend somethng dude. Sarosh

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Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy PSU... "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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Jam finally agrees with me when he says: "I really don't care...." Thats the whole idea of my great psu, just use it without me caring one bit. Sarosh

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"The common opinion seems to be that my psu should have definitely gone pop by now" I don't wanna start this crap up all over again, but that is NOT the "common opinion". The opinion is/was that your cheap PSU is what caused your 6600GT to fail & the suggestion is/was that you replace it.

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Uh, ohhhhhh... lol... "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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Here we go!

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Relax dudes, You guys portray me as a guy who argues senselessly. I have never disputed with anything you say. I am just one of those guys who doesnt care for his hardware as long is it does not go POP. The psu still lives, jam. Sarosh

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Look into "StrongHold Crusader", a great R.T.S. game that has city managing as one of its stong points, one of my all time favorites. Be warned though it requires AT LEAST 4Mb of video ram, might wanna upgrade your PSU for this one. http://stronghold.heavengames.com/ http://www.gathering.com/strongholdseries/

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Thanks dude, I am going to try to find those games. The screenshots of stronghold looks like it will only run at a resolution of 640. Does the game run at 1024 resolution? I like the screenshots very much, this is another game that I will enjoy. Thanks dude. Jam, its still alive. Sarosh

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"Jam, its still alive." ...but your video card isn't. FACE! :-P Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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If I was to pray for anything, it would be that your PSU went out with a bang, not a pop, & that it would fry your board, RAM, CPU, HDD, & video card as it sparked & smoldered it's way into oblivion!

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My psu has your blessing to let it go for another two years. And my card went dead because it was refurbish, I had overclocked it a lot, and had not even connected it properly. I saw the aopen warrenty forums, there are tons and tons of 6600GTs gone dead from aopen. Mine lasted 8 months. My psu is awesome, dudes. Sarosh

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JAMMMMMMMM.. YOUR BLESSINGS HAVE COME TRUE. message from aopen: ***************************************** We are glad to tell you that we already have your card and we will repair it for you with no charges, however, the shipment is not covered with the service so basically you will shoulder the shipment expenses back to you, that if you will agree we will send the card all at your own expense. Please provide us your name, address, phone number wherein we will send your card. We would like to let you know also that we are going to close your other issue ID 13962 with the same subject. As always, it our pleasure to be of service to you. Your response is highly appreciated. *************************************** I know you prayed for me while you drove your bike jam. This is good news. I can get to play fear again. The fx 5200 was making me cry man. Just hope the card reaches me back safely now. Thanks my dude, your advice for sending the card to warrenty was the best advice I ever received, because I was honestly prepared to throw it across my compound wall into the dumps. Thanks jam! Sarosh

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And yes, I am going to buy a new psu to keep me going for another few years. This psu has fulfilled its duty loyally for 4 years, could not ask for more. Sarosh

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Go with the VIP again, it has more gunpowder! Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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I think an antec 350W should be just fine for another 4 years. What do you guys think? Now that I have the card back, I dont intend to upgrade my cpu or m/b untill anything actually goes pop. A good quality 350W antec shold be enough for my system, shouldnt it? Sarosh

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This is another PSU that is just within my budget. 3800Rs is still a lot of money to spend on a psu, but if it will last me 4 years with my repaired 6600GT, then it is worth the money. If the 6600GT works fine, then I dont intend to upgrade anything. I just want this psu to be adequate for my current system. Although 3800Rs does seem a lot for a psu, when a whole cabinet+psu costs Rs.1200/- However, its antec, and will give me the comfort of knowing that my 6600GT is not in any risk of blowing up because of a psu. Sarosh

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A kind reminder to anyone who is considering providing advice... http://www.computing.net/gaming/wwwboard/forum/7115.html Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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Dude, get real man. You guys gave me advice when I didnt need anything. I was having an fx5200 then. I dont need a great power supply to run an fx5200. But now my 6600GT is coming back (hopefully). So now I am seriously considering buying a good quality psu. I dont know what the great jokes are about. You give me advice when I dont need it, and when I do ask for advice you say something funny. Sarosh

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You don't need a new PSU. All you need is some phosphorous in your diskette drive. Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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Thats right man, My current psu is awesome enough to handle a 6600GT.... and more. Sarosh

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BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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"You guys portray me as a guy who argues senselessly." "But now my 6600GT is coming back (hopefully). So now I am seriously considering buying a good quality psu." "And yes, I am going to buy a new psu to keep me going for another few years." "You guys gave me advice when I didnt need anything." "Thats the whole idea of my great psu, just use it without me caring one bit." "You give me advice when I dont need it, and when I do ask for advice you say something funny." "Its the blessings of jam that has kept my psu running so long." "The psu still lives, jam." "If the 6600GT works fine, then I dont intend to upgrade anything. I just want this psu to be adequate for my current system" TMP-Man Asus P5P800-SE P4 506 @ 4200Mhz 1.45v Thermaltake CLP0024 w/ 1700RPM 92MM + AS5 1GB Corsair 2-3-3-5 DDR400 120GB/300GB 7200RPM HD MSI 6600GT AGP 550/1150

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If you read those quotes I arrange for him, is it necessary to recommand him anything for everything he ask? TMP-Man Asus P5P800-SE P4 506 @ 4200Mhz 1.45v Thermaltake CLP0024 w/ 1700RPM 92MM + AS5 1GB Corsair 2-3-3-5 DDR400 120GB/300GB 7200RPM HD MSI 6600GT AGP 550/1150

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TMP-Man, you forgot to add... BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! LOL... "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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All those are his quotes... TMP-Man Asus P5P800-SE P4 506 @ 4200Mhz 1.45v Thermaltake CLP0024 w/ 1700RPM 92MM + AS5 1GB Corsair 2-3-3-5 DDR400 120GB/300GB 7200RPM HD MSI 6600GT AGP 550/1150

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Here I make it better for you hero... ============================================ "You guys portray me as a guy who argues senselessly." "BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" "But now my 6600GT is coming back (hopefully). So now I am seriously considering buying a good quality psu." "And yes, I am going to buy a new psu to keep me going for another few years." "You guys gave me advice when I didnt need anything." "Thats the whole idea of my great psu, just use it without me caring one bit." "BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" "You give me advice when I dont need it, and when I do ask for advice you say something funny." "Its the blessings of jam that has kept my psu running so long." "The psu still lives, jam." "BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" "If the 6600GT works fine, then I dont intend to upgrade anything. I just want this psu to be adequate for my current system" "The psu still lives, jam." "BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" ============================================ Is that better? hero? =P TMP-Man Asus P5P800-SE P4 506 @ 4200Mhz 1.45v Thermaltake CLP0024 w/ 1700RPM 92MM + AS5 1GB Corsair 2-3-3-5 DDR400 120GB/300GB 7200RPM HD MSI 6600GT AGP 550/1150

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LOL, no no, YOU got to say it. Trust me, it relieves stress! BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! In case you don't know what the heck that is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8vLVJVyVmA&search=howard%2Bdean "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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All this embrassament only because I am using a 300W low-quality psu which is 4 years old? Is your norm to throw out hardware that works fine just because some websites talk poorely about it? You guys want to embarass me only because I am still using a 4 year old 300W psu which has worked absolutely flawlessly for me? Anyway, AOpen have said they will repair my card free of charge. They have not said anything that my psu has made my card go pop. I have talked to other people too, they all agree that a good quality psu is required for a graphics card, but now of them can say with confidence that my psu will make my card go pop. They all say that my psu will surely go kaput if it cant handle my load, but none of them say that my psu will take down my card. My psu is still working fine, I am still playings games on it and leaving my comp on 12+ hours a day. If my low quality psu would have made my 6600GT card go kaput, then the psu should also have suffered some damage in the process. But my psu is still working flawlessly, so I can only conclude that my psu is still working fine, and the card went kaput on its own. I used the card without any problems for 8 months, except the initial hang up due to lose cables. My psu worked fine for those 8 months, and is still working absolutely fine now. Its only the card that went dead. And even if I get a new card, I will be gaming for not more than 30mins at a stretch, the rest of the time my computer will just be used regularly. Anyway, I dont think you guys are going to answer anything seriously, but I will ask you a question again. What is a "retail" graphics card? My guess is that retail is not the same as refurbished or used, its more to do with the marketing. But if any of you feel like providing a serious answer, please tell me if a "retail" agp card is of any inferiour or lower quality than a non-retail card. The 300W psu still lives!!! Sarosh

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"Is your norm to throw out hardware that works fine just because some websites talk poorely about it?" Nope. "They all say that my psu will surely go kaput if it cant handle my load, but none of them say that my psu will take down my card." You're lying, or they're stupid. Take your pick. I pick you're lying. "If my low quality psu would have made my 6600GT card go kaput, then the psu should also have suffered some damage in the process." WRONG! The PSU may get damaged, but it may not. "And even if I get a new card, I will be gaming for not more than 30mins at a stretch, the rest of the time my computer will just be used regularly." Large output fluctuations which is what kills components happen in split seconds. You really should have paid attention in physics class. "What is a "retail" graphics card?" It's a card that's had its tail reattached. BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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I remember when Howard Dean made those statements & Jim Rome got a hold of the sound bite & played it over & over & over again. All I can say about dsarosh is: ....you make me wanna oh-oh-oh-ohhh, you make me wanna la-la-la-laa, you make me wanna SCREEEEAAAMMMM!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ziu_vWAdNsc&search=ashley%20simpson%20orange%20bowl

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"I got a tax policy that'll break your neck. BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" *shaking head* Too funny... "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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Haha, You guys are loosing it man. Get hold of yourselfs, dudes. I dont know who Howard Dean is and I dont know who Jim Rome is, but bet they have something to say about my PSU. THE JAM SAID: "Some 300W psu are better than some 400w psu". So why is my psu not as good as a 400W psu? Because it has no name? Because it is manufactured in Taiwan? Because it has worked flawlessly? Sitting there in the US of A you pass a quick, witty comment "Your psu is crappy". Do you expect me to dismiss the 4 years of trouble free use this psu has given me because your great wisdome says "this psu is crappy". Does my positive experience with this psu count for nothing? You seriously expect to term a component that has worked well for 4 years as crappy? I have no idea what or who makes you guys think like that. If a part works for 4 years for me, that part is GOOD, NOT CRAPPY. And if I get that part for a good price, I call that EXCELLENT VALUE FOR MONEY. You guy's logic seems to have popped out. This forum is rated as "one of the most helpful forums on the net". I read that in an Indian magazine. This forum is rated no1. and annoyances.org is rated as no2. But I simply fail to understand how you great, wise hardware gurus can term a cpu as "crappy" after it has worked perfectly well for4 years. I have to reapeat yet once more, I dont care for voltags, or amperes or temperatures. I see my computer is on, its working. I dont care for anything else. Sarosh

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I think once and for all I will get an electricain over here and test all the currents and voltages on my psu, and then you guys may finally decide among yourself wheter this cpu is crappy or not. But I am still puzzled that you experts will brand something as crappy after it has worked for 4 years. Do you expect antec psu to work for 40 years? Sarosh

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I think you guys are going to misunderstand what I have said above, so once again I am compelled to clarify. The people from whom I buy hardware are experts in their field. They assemble 100s of computers in a month. They supply computers to colleges, governemnt, universities, and since they are my friend they also cater to individual customers like me. They have enough experience with hardware to know exactly which parts are good and which are bad. They even know which series in a psu are good, and which are bad. They have the experience of assemblig 1000s of pcs behind them for them to judge which parts are good and which are bad. I know they dont give the highest quality parts to everyone, and they have not lied about it to me. I have spoken to my hardware guys about various things. He has said that they dont give the best quality parts to the government offices, because they always delay payments, and he has to send them repeated reminiders. But when it comes to individual users like me, I know he does not sell me "crappy" parts. You guys thinking that my hardware guy will give me something crappy is absolutely and totally absured and your opinions are based on nothing but ignorance. Nothing that anyone has sold to me is crappy, and nothing will be crappy. Maybe you guys are associating my territory with crappy, but that is your problem for which I dont care much. I can give you many examples in which my hardware guys have given me parts which I had not initially asked for. For example, when I wanted a 40GB HD I had asked for a seagate, but he said something about "samsung spinpoint" and that these are little better or whatever. When I wanted 266Mhz ddr ram, he sold me 400MHz transcend server ram. May be he had my future upgrade path in mind, or maybe he just trusted transcend as the best ram. The same goes with my PSU. This psu is not crappy, and that is final. If you dont believe it, I will return here after a year and show you pics of the psu still going strong. And if my psu goes POP (much to jam's delight) then I will simply replace my psu and show you guys that the rest of my system is working fine on the new psu. Only time will tell, till then you guys can keep making your judgements. Sarosh

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Not only is your PSU crap, but your hard drive is crap, and your RAM is crap, and your system builder punched holes in your motherboard! BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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Dude, those holes in m/b help with the ventilation. It is a very advanced engineering technique followed by my hardware chap, probably beyond the understand of most. But those holes in the m/b are not crappy man. Sarosh

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You don't understand that your 6600GT fried because of your cheap PSU & you will never even accept that it's a possibility...you will continue to believe it was the card's fault because it was "refurbed". Do you know what a refurbed card is? Usually it's a card someone bought, opened the box, broke open the seal on the static bag, then opened up their case only to realize that they didn't have an AGP slot (or some other dumbazz reason), so they returned it. Now the store is "stuck" with a perfectly good card that is basically brand new, but because the seal was broken they can't sell it as new...so they label it "refurbed" & sell it at a discount. This has been explained to you several times! There was nothing wrong with the card until you overclocked it. And the actual overclocking isn't what killed it, it was the fact that your cheap PSU couldn't supply the power that the overclocked card required...basically, you starved it to death! As a side note, I'm sure there are some sellers that would simply place the card in a new static bag with a new seal, put it back in the box, then resell it again at full price as "new". Who would know? If you had bought a brand new 6600GT & it fried, would you still be blaming the card? or do you think you might be openminded enough to consider other possibilities? Do you know what makes some 300W PSUs better than some 500W PSUs? QUALITY! Open up a 300W Antec unit & you'll find that it was built using high quality capacitors, heavy guage wiring, & heavy duty heat sinks. And do you know why Antec PSUs cost more? Because quality parts costs more! Open up a cheap 500W PSU & you'll find crappy capacitors, light guage wiring, & light duty heatsinks. These cheap units are inefficient, meaning that a greater percentage of the wattage is given off as heat, & the cheap light gauge heatsinks don't dissipate the heat effectively so that causes the other components to run hot. And because they hot run, they're much more likely to fail or supply consistent, stable power. You have been provided link after link & website after website that describe power supply design, that explains what to look for when choosing a power supply, that showed benchtest/load test results, etc. A mechanical engineer would have the technical smarts to be able to understand this stuff, but you admitted that you are too f*cking lazy to look at them because "reading alone is boring". "...those holes in m/b help with the ventilation. It is a very advanced engineering technique followed by my hardware chap, probably beyond the understand of most." Oh, I understand it quite well...as a matter of fact, if you click on the "Memory Dump" link I have listed as my HomePage you will see samples of "advanced engineering techniques"

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"And because they hot run, they're much more likely to fail or supply consistent, stable power." I meant to say: And because they hot run, they're much more likely to fail & much less likely to supply consistent, stable power.

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Compare my power supply spec with some others... Enermax Noisetaker EG325 +3.3 @ 24a +5 @ 24a +12v1 @ 16a +12v2 @ 16a Look at the el-cheapo 500 watts and compare... TMP-Man Asus P5P800-SE P4 506 @ 4200Mhz 1.45v Thermaltake CLP0024 w/ 1700RPM 92MM + AS5 1GB Corsair 2-3-3-5 DDR400 120GB/300GB 7200RPM HD MSI 6600GT AGP 550/1150

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You don't understand that your 6600GT fried because of your cheap PSU Jam, as usual I agree with everything you say. What you say is totally right and makes sense. If something is sold for a lower price, there is definitely some compromise in quality. But I would like to ask you, how did you come to the conclusion that my psu is "cheap". Did I tell you the price at which I purchased this psu? Do you base all your opionions based on websites reviews and previews? These websites test a couple of samples from each brand and write a review, but my hardware guys have assembled 1000s of psu and cpus and m/b and rams and all that goes with it. I think it will be stupid to say that the people who write the website reviews are of "higher quality" and my hardware guys are "cheap". I would definitely rely on the opinion on the person who has been dealing with 1000s of PSUs rather than count on the opinion of one reviewer who tested on PSU in his test lab. Anyway, if a company sends their PSU to be tested, they will probably make sure they send a good piece. Im still puzzled that you think my psu is "cheap". Nothing I do is cheap, my friend. I have got spare computer hardware lying on my staircase rusting in the rain, and they were still working when I dumped them there and I have given my old HDs amd mouses and modems and speakers to many needy friends and I dont even want to keep track of that old hardware now. I dont involve myself in anything cheap. I find it sheer arogance on your part that you can call me and my hardware guy as "cheap", but that arrogance is what you people are famous for. You cant just read a couple of websites and come to the conclusion that my psu is cheap. The hardware situation changes very soon. Couple of years ago, Seagate was the market leader in India, specially in coastal India, because the samsung HDs would give problems in the high humidity and rains. Today samsung is the market leader, overtaken seagate, because they have fixed the problems with their HDs and now samsung is also offering 5 years warrenty. At one time LG monitors were considered the best CRT to buy, but not any more. Because LG is pushing LCD monitor developement, and is not coming up with any new innovation/features in the CRT department. My point is: hardware situations change. Just because something was poor at one time, does not mean it is crappy now. A samsung HD of 5 years ago may be crappy, but a samsung HD purchased today is better than a seagate HD. As for the other arguments you made, they all sound good, but dont really explain everything. When the card was new I didnt actually connect the extra power cable. The computer still ran, I even playe need for speed prorchse. But when I tried any newer game, the driver would give me a message "nvidia sentinal will slow down your core to prevent damage". That means that whenever the card was not getting adequate power, the drivers would warn me. After I fixed thhe cables properly, I didnt get this message for over 6 months of use. That simply means that my HD power cable was providing adequate power. I dont see how a psu can provide adequate power one day and then blow up the card the next day. My psu has always run pretty cool, I showed you the holes I drilled in the side of it, plus I put in an extra large system fan. So my psu would hardly ever heat up much. Also, if my psu were to send a surge of high current/voltage to my card, the shouldnt the power cable burn up? I have seen this happen in the past. When a higher current/voltage is passed over a wire than what it is cabable of handling, then the wire burns up in smoke, and gives out a nice stink too. So if my psu were supposedly send a surge or current/voltage to my card, then shouldnt the wire burn up first, because that wire was not meant to conduct such a load? As for your argument about being hot, I had said this earlier too, but maybe you were not listening, as usual. My psu runs pretty cool at full load too. I drilled holes in its side, and I have placed a bit, fast fan at the bottom of my case. This fan is fast enough blow dust from any corner of my cabinet, and this fan along with the drilled holes keeps my whole cabinet very cool. There is no heating of the psu at all. Even on full load the air being exhausted from behind the psu is only mildly warm. So once again, you demonstrate that you base your opinions on what you read on your websites, and personal, real-live experiences count for nothing to you, or maybe it is just that you dont believe anything I tell you. Tmp-Man: How did you get those readings? Is there any software out there that I can use to test my psu, or do I need a multimeter to actually test the output? Tell me how to test my psu, dude. Thanks. Sarosh. Sarosh

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Few years ago I had installed WinXP Pro on my dad's old computer. I just think about what kind of great advice I would have received here if I were to consult you guys before installing XP Pro on that computer. That computer was a 233Mhz mmx intel, with an old ati onboard graphics card and 1GB hard disk and 96MB ram. I remember when my dad ordered that comp he said "I want a computer to replace my typwriter" so my hardware chap gave him only what he required. He DID NOT try to push anything down our throat, he only sold us what was required, and for very good rate. That computer worked for 5 years. WinMe would have some problems, whenver we tried to scroll the outlook scroll bar, the computer would hang up. I decided to install WinXP on that computer, because I had used WinXP without any problems on my computer. I was aware of the websites reviews and website previews and website warnign stating "minimu requirements for WinXP". If I would have asked jam before installing WinXP, he would have said "your cpu is crappy, your m/b is crappy, dont install WinXP". But I did install WinXP, and it worked flawless for 4 years. It didnt not hang up a single time. It worked so well, that I upgraded that compuer to 196MB of SD Ram. But I am sure that if I would have come here before installing WinXP on a 233Mhz mmx cpu computer wtih 96MB of sd ram, you wise guys would have rediculed me, and my computer, and the guy who sold me the computer. When I first came to this forum, jam said the same thing about my m/b. Jam said something like "your m/b is crappy 400FsB outdated crap". Your explanation for everyting seems to be to lable it crap. Sarosh

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Dude, there's a 165+ post dedicated to this whole thing. Why do you insist to keep arguing about it? We think your hardware guy isn't good at all, so accept that. Move on with your life. If you don't find our advice helpful, go to another forum. LOL...I'm only responding to you now because it's pure entertainment. "Also, if my psu were to send a surge of high current/voltage to my card, the shouldnt the power cable burn up?" I'm not gonna answer any of your stupid questions because when I give you the answer, you won't believe it. Go read how electricity works. You obviously haven't a clue! "Tmp-Man: How did you get those readings?" Had you actually read the links Jam provided in the last thread, you'd know how to get those ratings. BYAH! "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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Had you actually read the links Jam provided in the last thread, you'd know how to get those ratings. And I had told you that I simply dont have time to read links, my friend. I got tons of other things to do which require my full attention. I simply dont have time and simply dont care one tiny bit for what the world wide web has to say about my psu. Sarosh

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"Tmp-Man: How did you get those readings?" Can you even see there is a spec sheet attach on the power supply's side? Does yours not have one? Mine also come with a user's manual, does yours not have one? If both answer is no, then you have the cheapest power supply ever built... TMP-Man Asus P5P800-SE P4 506 @ 4200Mhz 1.45v Thermaltake CLP0024 w/ 1700RPM 92MM + AS5 1GB Corsair 2-3-3-5 DDR400 120GB/300GB 7200RPM HD MSI 6600GT AGP 550/1150

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"And I had told you that I simply dont have time to read links, my friend. I got tons of other things to do which require my full attention. I simply dont have time and simply dont care one tiny bit for what the world wide web has to say about my psu." And yet you have time to triple post on this thread. How many times did you post in the last thread? Like 50 times? So no, you have plenty of time on your hands. In fact, too much time on your hands. And we know you don't care to get good information. So off you go! Get back to those pressing issues that require your full attention! "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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Ha, too much emotions in here. Anyway, I found a software program called Speed Fan 4.28. I have taken readings with it. I have no idea whether they are good or bad, but I know they are well beyond the 5% tolerence limit, so save your comments on that. http://sarosh.8m.com/images/voltages/ I thought jam said the readings on the label on my psu would be unreliable. But here they are anyway: Voltage (240V-) +3.3V - 20A (orange) +12V - 10A (yellow) -12V - 0.5A (blue) Current (3A) +5V - 20A (Red) -5V - 0.5A (White) +5VSB - 2A (Purple) Frequency (50/60Hz) Black -com-gnd Green-Pson Grey-PG That is pretty much everything there is on the lable about voltages and stuff. You can check out the readings I got from the software out here: http://sarosh.8m.com/images/voltages/ Save the comments on the voltage fluctuations please, I know they are well beyond the 5% variation. Glad to have helped. Sarosh. Sarosh

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Maybe part of the problem is that you don't fully understand American terminology...or maybe "slang" would be a better word. The word "cheap" doesn't necessarily have to do with price. When we refer to your PSU as being "cheap", we are talking about the poor quality of the unit, not the cost. There are plenty of expensive PSUs out there that are poorly made. And these PSUs may be referred to as "cheap, "crap", "garbage", "junk", or any number of terms, but it all basically means the same thing...they are poorly made products, regardless of the price. As for hardware testing...does your hardware guy have all the electronic equipment (& the time) necessary to benchtest items for days on end? I doubt it. But there are numerous sites on line that are dedicated to testing & reviewing hardware...Tom's Hardware Guide is just one example. I know if I post a link, you won't bother to check it out, but maybe you'll read a few lines that I copy from their site: "Our data is derived from six highly sensitive temperature sensors, five cameras, output meters of up to 4000 watts, a sound level measuring device with spectrum analysis of the audio bandwidth and six calibrated voltmeters as well as five ammeters." "One huge problem with power supplies are deviations in the specifications. A power supply cannot always be loaded to full capacity under all types of conditions. While the ATX Power Supply Design Guide contains typical configurations for output classes of 250 to 400 W, these are not binding. Each manufacturer can set its own output power data." I explained this to your before. The ATX12V "spec" is not a spec at all...it's a "guide" that was written by Intel. Surely we can agree that the engineers at Intel know more than you, or your hardware guy, or me, or anyone else in a computing forum? Anyhow, since it's only a guide, manufacturer's don't have to comply with it...good/reputable PSU manufacturer's will, other's won't. "Power supply buyers and shoppers are generally naïve, trusting manufacturer claims blindly." "I thought jam said the readings on the label on my psu would be unreliable." "And for users it is nearly impossible to check these performance specifications. This is why numerous manufacturers do not hesitate to use exaggerated wattage specifications in promoting their products..." "Your PC's power supply is the hidden component that can make your computing life miserable. Sometimes it will be working well for a while, only to then start to experience frequent or irregular crashes. A similar situation may appear when a PC is equipped with a more powerful graphics card or processor - suddenly it is no longer stable." "Yet most people do not ensure that this essential component is working properly, even though without it, achieving a stable PC is impossible." "Particularly with power supply models at the bottom end of the range that have been in use for a long time, voltage stability can diminish drastically. If the computer has recently been upgraded with new components, the old power supply will quickly become inadequate."

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If you think software can accurately read voltages, have fun. A smart person would use a multimeter. "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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"Save the comments on the voltage fluctuations please, I know they are well beyond the 5% variation." LOL...that alone should tell you something about the quality of your PSU.

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Agreed! And remember, this is without the better video card, and I bet he wasn't even playing a game when he took those screenshots. Still, he should use a multimeter to be sure. LOL, looks like someone's psu is inadequate. Oh wait, that's right, we said that a long time ago. "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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You can check the cpu usage as 100% and the temperatures. I was running avg antivirus test and running mem test. So the HD was being used, and the cpu was at 100% utilization because I was running memtest. Jam, I dont think my computer guys have seriously tested any components like they do on those websites, but when you are in the hardware business you can tell when a part is good and when it is bad. They have annual maintenence contracts for the computers of many institutes, so they get first hand knowledge of which part is good and which part is bad. If a part fails, it is returned to them anyway. Also, no hardware guy works alone. They have a sort of union, and they share their experiences. So although they may not be testing hardware personally, they still have enough experiences wtih 1000s of peices to be able to recommend which is good and which is not. That article above is very good jam, thanks for it. "Sometimes it will be working well for a while, only to then start to experience frequent or irregular crashes. A similar situation may appear when a PC is equipped with a more powerful graphics card or processor - suddenly it is no longer stable." I am experiences no chrasesh jam, and I didnt experience any crashes on my 6600GT either. "Yet most people do not ensure that this essential component is working properly, even though without it, achieving a stable PC is impossible." My pc is 200% stable. I dont remember the last time it hung up. It has given me no problems at all. I leave it on all day and only turn off the monitor at night, leaving it on to download stuff. I have a very stable pc, do I still need to worry about my psu despite having such a stable pc and not havng a single crash in over 2 years now? Sarosh

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"I didnt experience any crashes on my 6600GT either." Dude, your video card died! How did your PC manage to not crash when the video card died?! ROFL... "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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My dude, My card died because it smoked, not because of my psu, my dude. Do you have some psycic powers to say with guarantee why hardware fails? And yes, my pc did not crash. One day it just refused to come on. First I tried the ram, then I tried the vedio card. The computer would work perfectly well without the vedio card, but simply refused to boot up with the vedio card attached. Now I have attached the same power cable which I had attached to my vedio card to my 160GB 7200RPM HD, and the psu is still supplying power to my HD 12+ hours a day,,my dude. So that power cable that supplied power to my 6600Gt is still working fine supplying power to my 160GB HD 12+ hours a day, dude. If you still think my psu is at fault.... Sarosh

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Dude, a system that won't boot is not stable. That's NOT 200% stable. What planet are you on? "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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dsarosh, you don't understand & never will. And you refuse to look at websites that would explain it. Something that you just posted jumped out at me & it tells me that you've been less than truthful about your PSU & it makes me wonder what else you've been lying about. "+12V - 10A (yellow)" Only 10A on the +12v line?? That's not what you lead us to believe. You posted that comparison chart of VIP PSUs (remember the link to the PDF file?) & said the 300W unit was the same as yours. "Please also read this, mine is the VIP 300W, second column. http://www.kunhar.com/vipcabinets/downloads/smps-comparision-chart.pdf" That's interesting because the one on the chart has 18A on the +12v line...quite a difference! Now consider that your voltage readings vary widely & are not within the 5%+/- tolerance. Hmmmm, I wonder why your 6600GT fried? Must be because it was refurbed...LOL!

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I think this dead horse just took a tank round in the face... "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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Yea jam, I have no much idea about that, so I cant really answer. I have copied exactly what was on the lable of my psu and typed it here, I can show you pics if you want. If I happen to get a multimeter I will do the measurements and show you. I am on Plant awesome psu. My system didnt boot for like 5 times. I tried it 5 times, and when I realized my 6600GT had gone dead, I attached my monitor to my onboard graphics, and the 300W PSU WAS ALIVE ONCE AGAIN! After that I purchased an fx5200 and plugged it in, and plugged the HD power cable which I had used for my 6600GT back to my HD, and my pc did booth, my dude. My pc has boothed every single time. It only refused to booth with the 6600GT attached on only one particular evening. So I guess I am still on planet earth, must consult some online websites before confirming that though. Sarosh

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Hi Jam, Didnt mean to be rude, but I dont know the answer to your question. My label says 10A whereas the online pdf files says 18A, so obviously one of them is wrong. I am not saying that my psu is the better or higher (if Higher is better). I can only guess that the sticker I have on my psu is a standard sticker they attache to all psu within a certain range. Because there is another smaller sticker below it which says "FOR PIV" and another sticker at the corner which says "QC PASSED" and has a date table on it with two circular dots for the month and year. According to that sticker, the manufacture date of this psu is April 2002, so the 300W mighty psu is well over 4 years old, excellent value for money when you put in 8 months of using a 6600GT too. Sorry I dont know the answer to your question, but I am just guessing that the sticker on my psu is a "standard minimum" specifications sticker. And just like you said that manufactures do not need to adhere to fixed norms, may be they excedeed the norms in psu. If you know any other software,or any other test you want me to carry out, let me know. But I think this psu has already passed the test by working flawless and totally stably an without any hangups for 4 years. Sarosh

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"According to that sticker, the manufacture date of this psu is April 2002, so the 300W mighty psu is well over 4 years old" "My label says 10A whereas the online pdf files says 18A, so obviously one of them is wrong." Geeeee---Suzzzzz! Nothing is wrong...your PSU only has 10A on the +12v line! It is NOT a mistake, it is what it is! Go back to the PDF file about the VIP 300W PSU. Check the line that says "Manufacturing". It lists Jan 2006! I should have picked up on that a long time ago. You've been saying all along that your PSU is 4 yrs old, so there's no way it complies with ATX12V 2.0...the spec wasn't even released until Feb 2003! So at best, your PSU complies with version 1.2 This may not be sinking in but you're actually helping us with our argument! Once again, I won't bother posting links to sites you won't look at, but let's do some math for the amperage requirements on the +12v line: motherboard = 0.30A cooling fans = 0.25A each (I'll assume 3, so 0.75A total) IDE HDD = 2.0A each optical drive = 1.0A each P4 Northwood = 6.0A Add em up & you get -----> 10.05A! So if you have all the above running at the same time, your +12v line will be at max capacity...& that's BEFORE you connect the 6600GT!!! "Hmmmm, I wonder why your 6600GT fried? Must be because it was refurbed...LOL!"

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Great math man. Im totally new to this, but is the 12V line the one I have currently plugged into my HD? Or is the 12V line the one that supplies power to my entire motherboard? Sorry dude, I dont know much details of this, so I may sound stupid. Sarosh

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"I dont know much details of this" I know you don't, that's why I (& others) have tried to get you to go to websites that explain how power supplies work...but you have refused. I think we may have finally had a breakthrough though! lol "is the 12V line the one I have currently plugged into my HD? Or is the 12V line the one that supplies power to my entire motherboard?" On your PSU, there is only one +12v line (actually, it's more appropriate to call it a rail, than a line). But there are many "leads" (wires) that that are fed by the rail. The +12v leads are the yellow wires...each HDD/Optical plug & floppy plug has a +12v lead, plus there's a yellow lead that feeds the board & CPU. Every component that requires 12 volts competes for the amperage on the +12v rail. If you have more than enough to go around, there should be no problem...but if you have too little or "just enough", that's when there are problems.

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How long have we been saying the PSU was borderline? Good lord... "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

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Hey, between this thread & the other mega-thread, there have been over 240 total responses. I think we're finally starting to make some headway!

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Lets do some math here... Voltage (240V-) +3.3V - 20A (orange) +12V - 10A (yellow) -12V - 0.5A (blue) Current (3A) +5V - 20A (Red) -5V - 0.5A (White) +5VSB - 2A (Purple) Frequency (50/60Hz) Black -com-gnd Green-Pson Grey-PG Total W = 3.3 x 20 + 5 x (20+2) + 12 x 10 = ~300 watts total. There is nothing wrong with the lable on the power supply... Also the 300 watt is the "max" output, and suppose your power supply is godly cheap such that it only pulls out 50% efficency from 300... You only get 150 out from 300. As for my mine... Enermax Noisetaker EG325 +3.3 @ 24a +5 @ 24a +12v1 @ 16a +12v2 @ 16a +12v1+v2 combined = 23a Total = 3.3 x 24 + 5 x 24 + 12 x 23= 475 watts max... (when efficency apply, you won't be 475...) Does that explain the difference between good and el-cheapo? Mine is claim to be 325 watts and your is 300... Anyways, I suggest you check all your voltage readings to confirm your power supply is doing the job correctly... In the BIOS, mine reads at CPU @ 1.45v ~1.4v +3.3v ~3.280 +5v ~5.248 +12v ~12.408 If your 12v rails goes below 12v at difference of 5%, meaning 11.42v, that should explain how your power supply blow out your 6600gt... Secondly, if the voltage flucuate during heavy load, that also should explain how your 6600gt burn out.. Example below - every 5 sec... +12v rails @ ... etc... You are having serious power supply problem... Solution, change your power supply to namebrands like antec, enermax, fsp, pc-power cooling, zalman... etc... TMP-Man Asus P5P800-SE P4 506 @ 4200Mhz 1.45v Thermaltake CLP0024 w/ 1700RPM 92MM + AS5 1GB Corsair 2-3-3-5 DDR400 120GB/300GB 7200RPM HD MSI 6600GT AGP 550/1150

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Hi Jam, 1) Comparing the your reading with mine, it seems you have two 12V rails: +12v1 @ 16a +12v2 @ 16a +12v1+v2 combined = 23a I have only 1 12V rail, is that correct? What could this secnd 12V rail be used for, there is only one motherboard afterall? 2) Also, I remember something about an "auxilarry power cable" for the cpu. This is a small square wire that fits into the motherboard to the left side of my cpu, and is supposed to give direct power to my cpu. So can we substract the 6A usage that the cpu uses from the 12A rail? If the cpu has it own seperate power cable, then it wont draw power from the 12A line, or atleast it wont draw all of its power requirements from the 12V rail. 3) If your 12v rails goes below 12v at difference of 5%, meaning 11.42v, that should explain how your power supply blow out your 6600gt... How does this happen? Is it a random event? When the card was new I had overclocked it to about 650/1100 and left it like that for two weeks. I played all the games, ran the 3d marks, etc. How does it work out that the psu waited for 8 months to provided current below 5% to my vedio card, and that too when I had reduced my gaming to 30 mins a day and no overclocking. When my vedio card was demanding the most current (overclocked) then the psu was able to supply it, but when it was just being used for 2d appliations, the psu failed to supply the adequate current. I am still confused about how these mighty psu work dude. I just thought that if they provide good current on one particular day, they will not provide the same current on the next day. Unless they are some low-quality psu picked up from the streets, which mine is definitely not. 4) If my psu blew up my card because it could not provide enough positive current, then I think this has to be a very good psu, because it protected itself. It was my fault that I overloaded the psu, and it failed to deliver, but it did protect itself. It didnt burn up when I subjected it to higher loads, it is still working now too. I guess I am lucky about that, or this psu is good. Sarosh

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I check the hardware monitor in my motherboard bios. Here are some values: CPU temperature: 46-47C Motherboard Temperature: 29C VCore: 1.504V 3.3 Voltage: 3.104V 5 Voltage: 4.811V 12V: This was varying between 12.608-12.672V So my 12V rail is having a higher potential difference than yours, jam. Ha. These are your readings: CPU @ 1.45v ~1.4v +3.3v ~3.280 +5v ~5.248 +12v ~12.408 However, I stand by my argument that this psu is not crappy. I have overloaded this 300W psu with the graphics card, and although the card failed, my psu is still alive. I agree that this psu was not adequate for my 6600GT and it was my fault that I overloaded it, but crappy it is not. Sarosh

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Hey my jam, Hope I have not asked questions above that are so stupid that you are pulling your hairs out and you are going to yell at me again. Practice some yoga to calm down man, if my posts drive you crazy. But I told you, I dont know much about this, and my interest in all this psu stuff would be more valid if my current psu would display even the slightest evidence of problems. Sarosh

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Dudes, I have noticed first hand the fluctuation on the 12V rail. There is almost constant variation in this value. I didnt know this was bad for my agp card? Can you tell me why this is bad for the agp card? I mean most of the world lives on uneven current supplies. I dont know about you guys, but power supply here is never totally steady. The voltages are a bit lower in the evenings, and then again pick up at late night. Also, winds, rains, etc cause fluctiatins in voltage. Why is a vedio card so sensitive to voltate variations? Are you guys sure that a vedio card will blow up because of the voltage variations on 12V? Please advice properly, because I dont want to buy a costly antect psu and find that the 12V on the antec psu too is varying as much as this 300W. Secondly, I ran the program CPU-Z and I find that the voltage of my cpu is almost constantly fluctuation. I saw the same thing for my 1.7GHz cpu too. But my 1.7GHz cpu didnt go pop although its voltate fluctuatted for 4 whole years. Why are vedio cards so much more sensitive than a cpu? I also found that the Bus Speed of my cpu almost constantly changes from 532.8 to 532.9 and the Core Speed varies from 2531.1 to 2531.3. So I am guessing that most devices can handle small amounts of voltage fluctuations. But I have personally seen with my own eyes that my psu does not supply steady voltage on my 12V line, and this is the first evidence I have about something being wrong or bad about my psu. I just want to make sure that if I buy a new antect cpu I will not find the same voltage fluctiation on the 12V line of a costly antec psu, or else all my money and time are gone waste. Sarosh

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"I have noticed first hand the fluctuation on the 12V rail. There is almost constant variation in this value. I didnt know this was bad for my agp card? Can you tell me why this is bad for the agp card? I mean most of the world lives on uneven current supplies." It's impossible to supply 100% rock steady voltage. There will always be some fluctuation, so when components are designed, the fluctuation is taken into account. That's why there's a 5% +/- tolerance in the spec. +3.3v tolerance = 3.135v - 3.465v +5v tolerance = 4.75v - 5.25v +12v tolerance = 11.4v - 12.6v A high quality PSU built with better components will have less fluctuation than a lower quality PSU. Your +12v rail is out of tolerance & that should be a concern. And if you were to look at your CPU spec, you'd find that Intel lists a vcore tolerance. There's always a minor fluctuation in bus speeds too...these things are all factored in.

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Thanks my dude, Here is my plan: If I get a good agp card anytime beofre Jan 2007, I will definitely invest in a good quality psu. If I am still going to use my fx 5200, I can definitely take the risk of my comp going pop, I use it without care anyway. Incedently, any comments on "iball power supplies"? lol. Sarosh

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I think a big part of your/our problem (since you continually mention it) is that you take offense at the word "crappy". The problem is just that you're not all that familiar with American slang. So instead, I will refer to your PSU as either "inadequate" or "low-quality" from now on, because it is definitely both. And another problem is that you have refused to look at the links that myself & others have provided. I feel I have a better than average understanding about power supplies & PC power requirements, but I'm a civil engineer & a computer hobbyist, not an electronics engineer. The links that I've tried to get you to read would have explained PSUs in depth & probably would have made things a lot more clear. "I have only 1 12V rail, is that correct? What could this secnd 12V rail be used for, there is only one motherboard afterall?" Like I said, if you would have checked out any of the sites that were posted in the past, you would know the answer to that. You have a PSU that was designed to the ATX12V 1.3 spec. TMP-Man has a PSU that's designed to the ATX12V 2.0 spec. A little history: Prior to the P4, all Intel CPUs got their power from the +5v rail, so having a lot of amperage on the +12v rail wasn't necessary. 10A was adequate because the only things that required it were fans (0.25A each), HDDs (2.0A each), optical drives (1.0A each). But when the P4 was developed, Intel determined that the +5v rail wasn't gonna be sufficient, so the +12v line was tapped instead. If you know basic electronics: wattage = volts x amps So if you have a P4 rated at 70W, it would need approx 6A from the +12v line. Take the time to look at this site. There's not much reading involved, basically it's a chart showing a list of PC components, what rails(s) they get their power from, & how much wattage they require: http://www.pctechbytes.com/powersupply.htm Because of the relatively small guage of the wiring used in a PSU, it was determined that 18A is that max current the +12v can handle safely (12v x 18A = 216W). And when you consider that some P4s are rated at 100W, & more & more people are running multiple HDDs & optical drives, numerous cooling fans, high power video cards that require the added PSU plug-in, etc, it's easy to go over the 18A limit on the +12v rail. So one of the changes in the 2.0 spec is that if more than 18A is required, a 2nd +12v rail should be added. This is directly from the ATX12V 2.0 PSU design guide: "System components that use 12V are continuing to increase in power. In cases where expected current requirements is greater than 18A, a second 12V rail should be made available." Just to add, you should never run your PSU at it's full capacity. What I mean is, if you add up all your requirements & determine that your system needs a total of 12A on the +12v rail, you shouldn't get a PSU that has only 12A. You should include a safety factor, plus consider the possibility of future upgrades, otherwise the PSU will become inadequate again, sooner rather than later. The bottomline is your PSU is no longer adequate for your system due to the upgrades you made. When you bought the system 4 yrs ago, it was just barely adequate...actually, your PSU is much better suited for a P3 system...but now that you've added more RAM & upgraded from onboard video to a *real* graphics card, you've maxed it out. If/when you get the 6600GT back, I hope you upgrade your PSU before reinstalling the card. You don't necessarily have to jump the wattage substantially (unless you wanna plan for the future), nor would you have to get an Antec. I'm sure there are plenty of choices in between, but you usually say either VIP or 500W Antec. Maybe if you buy your PSU elsewhere or have your hardware guy special order one? Remember, wattage isn't the main factor to consider, amperage is the key, & so is quality.

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Thanks jam, I am actually learning about it. These things are not hard for me to understand, I have studied a lot of all this. Its just that I thought you guys were making rash conclusions about how bad my psu was. I definitely agree that my psu is inadequate. I have checked the Antec 500W NeoHE psu, it as tripple 12V rails, thats pretty awesome. So one thing I have to make sure of is that the next psu I buy has to comply with ATX12V 2.0 specs!!! I have noted this down, and I will make sure I get a ATX12V 2.0 spec psu. I never disputed that my psu was inadequate, and if it would have given me any warnings, I would definitely upgraded it much earlier, but it handled the 6600GT very well, no hangups, no errors, no problems at all. If there was even an occassional hang up, I would have seriously considered buying a new psu. But I thought that since everything was working ok, it was fine, and I lost my card because of that. I had told you too that back in 2002 when my hardware dude gave me this psu, I dont think he would have imagined that I was going to plug a 6600GT into this psu. Those were the days of Riva TNT 2. I really cant blame my hardware guy for giving me a 300W psu back in 2002. I am very pleased with his choice of psu, although it couldnt handle the 6600GT because it was obviously inadequate, it has run the rest of my computer perfectly well for 4 long years. If I happen to get the XFX 6800XT from usa, I will buy a good psu of minimum 350W with warrenty. I really dont plan to upgrade my computer if I get a good graphics card. 160GB, 2.53GHz and 1GB ram is more than sufficient for me. My friend is coming to India on Aug 15, and I can tell her to buy this card for me: Please tell me what is RETAIL PLEASE!!!!!!! Once I get this card, I am going to talk to my hardware guys abouta new psu. Infact, if you are interested I can tell you about my latest conversation with him. I phoned him just to talk about the psu, I didnt want to buy anything. First off, the prices of antec are really over the roof over here. If I spend 10,000Rs+ on a psu it really better to some wonders for me. I asked him what psu he uses. I know his son is a gamer, and he puts in the latest cards in his computer. He said he used a pus "imported by iball". This is a 500W psu, with 3 fans, and weighs 5KG (is that really possible, I have never held a psu in my hands). He said he has been using this psu with his 7600 pci vedio cards, a couple of HDs, a couple or more optical rams, etc, etc and he said he can give me 3 years warrenty on this psu. I asked him the price of this psu and he said "2800Rs + tax". This is a great price for a 500W psu, and usually I would have just gone ahead and purchased it, but you guys here have kind of brainwashed me, so now I dont know whether to trust you guys and go with antec, or trust my hardware guy and buy the same psu that he is personally using which comes with 3 year local warrenty. I must add that although he has quoted the price as 2800Rs for me, he might very well sell the same psu to someone else for 6000Rs. This is the same case where he charged me Rs.150/- for a mouse, where as the price on the box was 450Rs. He does not mind not making profits from the stuff he sells to me, I dont think that means he is giving me bad quality stuff. I am still undecided as to what I will do when I get my next graphics card, but I hope I make the correct decision. Wish me luck, dudes. Sarosh

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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150157 Here is the link to the card I hope to buy, its excellent bargain. It costs 11,000Rs in India, but costs only 140*45=6300Rs in USA. I think she has already ordered it, or she will on Monday, and bring it down in Mid august. Please tell me what is RETAIL, DUDESSSSSS!!! Sarosh

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I just did a quick googling of iball, iball power supplies, iball SMPS, & didn't come up with anything worthwhile...just a few comments in an Indian forum. Stick with reputable name brands. Here are a few: Antec Enermax FSP (Fortron) Sparkle (SPI) --- made by FSP/Fortron Thermaltake There are other good brands too, but the above are the most recommended. What until you find out what's up with your 6600GT. The 6800XT really isn't much of an upgrade, if it's an upgrade at all. The "XT" at the end of the model number means it's a lower end version. There are quite a few cards in the 6800 series...6800XT, 6800LE, 6800, 6800GS, 6800GT, 6800 Ultra, etc. There are differences in the GPU speed, memory speed & type, number of pipelines, etc. The only thing the 6800XT has over the 6600GT is that it uses 256-bit memory interface, but the GPU runs at 350MHz, while the 6600GT runs at 500MHz. Both have 8 pipelines. Simply put, it's not worth the money. Sit tight & wait for your 6600GT. If you have a friend coming from the US, have her buy you a decent power supply instead & we can't put this whole PSU issue behind us. Here are a few "inexpensive" ones to consider (check the specs): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104953 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103013 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104954 Although I don't own one, I'm a big fan of FSP/Fortron/Sparkle/SPI products. FSP has been building PSUs for the server market for a lot of years & always rate right near the top at hardware reviews sites. Their units usually cost less than a comparable Antec & the quality is just as good. If you don't wanna take a chance on the above, there are several others that I (or someone else) can recommend.

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I hope she didn't order it yet...like I said, it's not much better than the 6600GT. As for what "retail" means, it's just the name for the product sold in a store...you might see it listed as "retail version" or "retail box". That just means it's the item that you can buy in any store...it comes in a pretty box with the manual, driver CD, cables, etc. It usually has a store warranty plus the manufacturer's warranty. If you see an item listed as "OEM", it's usually just the bare item, in a static bag or "white box". There are no extras (drivers, manual, cable, etc)...it's just the card. It usually has a very short store warranty (15 days for example), but it still includes the full manufacturer's warranty.

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"...& we can't put this whole PSU issue behind us." I meant, we CAN put this whole PSU issue behind us! Please tell me you(she) didn't order that card! You really should have asked 1st...you ask about everything else, why not about this??

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Thanks jam, I actaully did read the reviews and checked the specifications. I really didnt expect this card to be much of an upgrade. My reasoning behind selecting this card was: 1) It is priced only 7$ more than the 6600GT (that itself is enough proff to say that its not much of an upgrade at all) 2) The power requirements of this card seem to be less than that of a 6600GT, because its core is quite slower. 3) It has 256MB ram, so I might be able to play future games, and load high textures, and it has 256 bit memory architecture. Jam, just one quick question about the psu's you mentioned about: are they going to be totally compatable with my m/b? Some of them have pci labeled next to them. The 450W psu cost about Rs.2400Rs, my hardware duder is giving me a 500W for Rs.2800/-, the only question is whether I should trust him. Sarosh

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Hi Jam, This may sound a bit odd to you, but my plan was to first see if I actually get a good agp card. If I actually do manage to get an agp card, only then do I think it will be worth spending on a psu. I dont want to upgrade my psu for my current system, the old beast is still ticking along totally fine. Also, I have kind of lost fait in Aopen. I was thinking that I will stick with the XFX 6800XT and sell the aopen card and buy a good psu from that money for he xfx 6800XT. I dont know how good a repaired, refurbished card may be. It may last me another year. However, a brand new xfx card may last me 3+ years if I put in a good psu. Sarosh

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Must also add that I dont plan to upgrade from my 2.53Ghz cpup, and 266MHz of 1GB ddr ram and my agp 4x m/b. So any card that complements my current system is a good card. I dont need to play the latest games at high settings. I got tons of old games I can play again, and some games that will run decently on that card, like Fear, prey, cod2, moh-pa, nfs, etc, etc. I am guessing that anything about the 6800XT may be bottle necked by my cpu, ram, etc. Am I correct? Sarosh

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I don't wanna turn this video card into another struggle like the PSU issue was(is). Do what you wanna do. In my eyes, it's a complete waste of money. You still need a new PSU though & STOP thinking in terms of wattage! Proper amperage distribution is the key ingredient, & the PSU itself should be one built using quality components. You do NOT need a 500W PSU, you don't even need a 450W PSU. You could easily get by with a 400W unit, or even a quality 350W like this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103012 You really don'y have a higher power system, you just have an inadequate PSU for the hardware you have. The 350W above will more than handle what you have, plus have some headroom for the future.

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Thats exactly my plan jam, Once I get a vedio card, I will most definitely buy a good quality cpu. I have the 350W antec in mind, but I will evaluate my options then. But rest assured, I am not going to run a new agp card on this 4 year old psu. Sarosh

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Dude, use your head...you don't need a new card. The 6600GT is fine & AOpen has already told you that they'll repair or replace it...just wait. But since you have friend coming from the US, have her bring a new PSU instead. The Sparkle 350W is better than the Antec 350W. Look at the specs & look at the design. One huge fan on the underside is much better (& quieter)than two fans. Plus I think the Antec 350W has a fan in the front & rear? That's no longer recommended. The Sparkle has better specs, better cooling, it's quieter, & it costs less. http://www.sparklepower.com/pdf/ATX-350PN.pdf Are you worried about the warranty? Why would the PSU warranty concern you but not the warranty on a video card?

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Ok, let me ask you one question. How good to you think the repaired Aopen card is going to be? Will that repaired card last me 3+ years if I buy the new psu? I really dont know much about all this. My knowledge is very superficial. I just guess that... XFX cards are better than aopen cards. A reparied Aopen card may last me 1 year max. Please advice dude, you know I believe everything you say. Sarosh

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Hi My dude jam, I am sending this email more as a request to help than anything else. If you can buy that psu and ship it to me, that would be the best thing. I can pay you 80$ by paypal right way. I will pay you in advance, you only send me the part after you get the paypal transfer. The part cost 32$, and I think 48$ should cover the shipping charges to India. You have nothing to loose but some of your time. I dont want to consufe my friend, she seems pretty confused anyway. She is coming to India personally after a few months, her uncle is coming to india in July, and her friend is coming to India on 15Th july. So that is currently a mess and is not finalized yet. What I do know is that when she or her uncle or her friend comes to India, she will buy me the part. I dont know what you think about this, but its nothing but a polite request for help. I can send you 80 american dollars right away, then you take your time to buy the psu and ship it to me at your convienence. If this works out it will be very nice, or else no problem at all. You will still be the top dude over here. Sarosh

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Why would you pay $80 when the PSU only costs about $40 (including shipping to her place). Then all she has to do is carry it on the plane & shipping would be free!

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I just thought of something. You could go to newegg.com & purchase the PSU yourself...that way all the paperwork would be in your name, then all you'd have to do use her address as the "SHIP TO" & it will be delivered to her, then she could bring it with her when she visits!

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I am going to try again with new egg. Last time I tried they didnt even let me register from India. The 80 dollors is not an issue at all. I would be very glad to pay you 80 or 60 or whatever amount. I have that amount lying in my paypal since 1 year now, and I have no use for it. Paypal dont accept my debit card, so it is not so simple for me to withdraw those funds either. But I think what you said earlier was right. I will ask my friend to order this part instead of the xfx card. Then I can use the repaired aopen card on this psu. And if that does not work, I can pick up an xfx 6600GT locally to, will cost me 9000Rs though. Sarosh

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Dude, Are there any sites that will allow me to buy only by using paypal? I dont know about ebay, but if you happen to come across some place where I can directly buy the sparkle psu online and have them deliver it to me for a total of 80 dollors please do let me know. Sarosh

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