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When i play TF2 i get around 20-30 in fire fights which i think it kind of low for my set up while on all low graphics(is it?)
but my friend has a 3800+x2 that hes willing to give up for 75$ shipped...
is this upgrade worth it?? will I see a decent increase in FPS?
Shuttle SN26p
AMD 64 3800+ CPU
160GB SATA Hard Drive
1.5 GB DDR 400
NVIDIA XFX 8600 GT 256thx in advance
Overclock your current CPU & get a better video card instead.
The 8600GT goes for about $50 (after rebate) these days so you should be able to get about $40 for your's if you sell it. Then you can get a Radeon HD3850 for about $75 or a 9600GT or HD3870 for about $100.
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Shuttle SN26p
AMD 64 3800+ CPU
160GB SATA Hard Drive
1.5 GB DDR 400
NVIDIA XFX 8600 GT 256Oops ... thought the specs above was for the friend's machine that is up for grabs ... LOL! So much for me thinking he was getting a whole machine for $75.00 :-(
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No it's not worth the upgrade if the game isn't dual core capable. If it is, you will see improvment but for 75$ for a bottom of the line dual core processor, I dunno if it's worth it. You will see better improvment by getting a better gpu like jam said and if you know how to overclock you can overclock your current processor to 2.8ghz which will rank right up there with an Althon FX 57.
Personally i'd stick with the current processor right now and OC and get something like an 9600GT with 256bit video memory and 512 GDDR3 ram. You will see much more improvement by upgrading your gpu then cpu.
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i would overclock it but dont have a clue how to and might melt it... u know a simple overclocking guide? and the bad part about that is the space since its a shuttle xpc so i cant get a better cooling fan.
plus i heard that TF2 is more cpu intensive? i went from 6600 gt 128mb to the 8600gt XXX 256mn and didnt see that much improvement... if any
but if i get a 9600 gt, which brand?
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We have experts like jam here that is pretty much an overclocking expert with AMD processors, just tell him the motherboard and model number to see if it's even overclockable and if it is he can give you a general idea on what to overclock it to. I overclock myself but jam is more of the go to guy with these things.
With todays systems it's almost impossible to ruin your computer by overclocking due to thermal heat sensers on the motherboard that will prevent it from overheating. Your socket 939 motherboard has this feature so no worries.
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here the shuttle product page
http://global.shuttle.com/products_...
i still have the same motherboard it came with, and 1.5gigs of ram but their not the same brand...
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OK, I just went to the Shuttle site & downloaded the manual. You need to realize that overclocking isn't an exact science, it's trial & error, so you're gonna have to experiment. As Cobra_R mentioned, all modern systems are thermally protected so the chances of damaging the CPU by overclocking are very slim. However, if you over-overclock, the system may become unbootable. If that happens, don't panic. Your system has a Clear CMOS button right on the backside of the case. All you'll need to do is insert something pointed into the clear CMOS hole, hold it for 5 sec & the BIOS will reset to factory defaults, then you can start from scratch.
The majority of the setting changes will be made in the Advanced Chipset Features menu. Here's what I recommend:
CPU Frequency = 255MHz* (see note below)
HT Frequency = 4x
HT Width = 16 16
DRAM Configuration - press ENTER for memory options:
- Timing Mode - manual
- Memclock index value (Mhz) - 166
- CAS# latency (Tcl) - 2.5
- Min RAS# active time (Tras) - 11T
- RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd) - 3T
- Row precharge Time (Trp) - 3T
- 1T/2T Memory Timing - 2T** (see note below)
CPU Spread Spectrum - Disabled
SATA Spread Spectrum - Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum - DisabledRatio/Voltage Control
CPU Ratio - x11 2200Mhz
CPU Voltage Select - AUTO* (see note)If you succeed with the above settings, your CPU will run at 2.805GHz, with the RAM at approx 200MHz & HT bus at 1020MHz.
* NOTE: don't jump straight to 255MHz. Make all the rest of the changes I listed, but start with the CPU freq at 220MHz. Save the settings, exit & boot into windows. Test the system for stability. If all is well, go back & raise the freq another 5MHz, then test again. Continue raising the freq in 5MHz increments & try to get it up to 255MHz. If at any time the system becomes unstable, go to the CPU Voltage Select setting, increase the voltage from AUTO to 1.40v, then boot into windows again to see if the system has stabilized.
** NOTE: once you've arrived at a final stable setting for your CPU (hopefully 2.805GHz), change the 1T/2T Memory Timing to 1T, then boot into windows again to make sure the system is still stable. If it is, you're all done! If it's not, change it back to 2T again.
Here's an article that may be helpful:
Good luck!
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wow... i cant wait to get home and try this! but how can i test the stability? and is it a certain degrees i should he scared of?
btw i looked on newegg for the 9600gt's and the reviews said it need a 400w psu (i have a 350) and was LONG... think it'll work with my shuttle?
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Use a program like Everest Free edition found here.
http://majorgeeks.com/download4181....
No if your cpu starts to get too hot your computer will restart and the bios will set the processor back to it's defualt speed. That's what the thermal heat protection does.You have a power supply that prob won't handle 9600GT's well so that's now out of the question. Plus you have a shuttle case and your avg quality pc psu won't fit in one. So just forget about the 9600GT now.
What you can do along with overclocking your processor is overclock your graphics card as well. Use a program called ATI Tool to overclock your graphics card, it is free and can be used on both ATI and Nvidia graphics cards.
http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/
If your ram doesn't match then you prob knocked yourself out of dual channel mode which can reduce your rams performs. You don't have to add the same two identical sticks of ram in but you do have to put the same amount in order for dual channel to work correctly. Adding another 1gb DDR400 ram will help put you back into dual channel mode and also give you an extra 512mb of ram which will be needed to play intense 3d games.
So basicly just keep what you have, overclock both the processor and graphics cards and get another 1gb of ram which is only like 30 bucks or less on newegg.com . That right there should help boost your fps to where you are happy without spending an arm and a leg.
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"You have a power supply that prob won't handle 9600GT's well so that's now out of the question. Plus you have a shuttle case and your avg quality pc psu won't fit in one. So just forget about the 9600GT now"
Yeah, when I made my video card recommendations I didn't know the PC was a SFF unit. Unfortunately, they have very limited upgradeability due to their small size & proprietary hardware. The spec sheet says "2 x16 PCI E slots support GeForce 7800 series graphics cards" & lists a 350W PSU...hopefully it's a darn good one?
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so im guessing its still out the 9600gt question due to size and psu? you would think that if it can run 2 7800gt's it can run 1 9600gt...
then i found this which makes me tempted to get one
http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/f...but what software to use to test stability?
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No running two 7800gt's in sli mode will draw even more power then having one 9600GT. The thing that's holding you back is the psu. I mean, sure you can put a 9600GT in it now but once it starts drawing a lot of power from your psu, your at risk of shutdowns and possible short-outs. You will be amazed how many ignorant people there are that will throw in a nice graphics card using a low powered or cheap psu and come onto these forums asking why their pc is has shorted out and something is no longer working.
My advice is to do the things I mentioned in post number 10.
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well i tried yesterday with the setting listed above and it didnt boot into windows... it flashed that blue screen wit the white text and rebooted
i changed them back to the normal settings and it works again, now what to try?
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overclocking is trial and error there is no science to it, it will work you will just have to mess around with the settings more.
Do the following below like jam listed, but start the CPU Frequency @ 205MHz this time.
CPU Frequency = 205MHz
HT Frequency = 4x
HT Width = 16 16
DRAM Configuration - press ENTER for memory options:
- Timing Mode - manual
- Memclock index value (Mhz) - 166
- CAS# latency (Tcl) - 2.5
- Min RAS# active time (Tras) - 11T
- RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd) - 3T
- Row precharge Time (Trp) - 3T
- 1T/2T Memory Timing - 2T** (see note below)
CPU Spread Spectrum - Disabled
SATA Spread Spectrum - Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum - DisabledStart the CPU Frequency @ 205MHz, if it works bump it up another 5mhz to 210mhz and so on and so on until it gets unstable. Then bump the CPU Frequency down to where it was last stable at and run the cpu test program.
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You might have to bump the voltage up by a .1 or .2 to get it higher. Like i said before overclocking is not a science, it will take some trail and error.
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so today i was working with it up to 225 but had to increase the voltage to v1.50
then went into windows and ran prime95 and choose the first stress test... soon as the worker started it stopped and said
Test 1, 000000 Lucas_lehmer lterations of m172031 using FFT length OK
FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.5, expected 0.4so does this mean thats the highest i can overclock it?
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All boards, CPUs, RAM, etc vary somewhat, that's why overclocking is always trial & error.
It would help if you'd list what your current settings are...I have a feeling that you didn't follow my suggestions exactly. And if you didn't, there are a number of things that could be stalling the overclock. For instance, if you didn't lower the RAM setting to 166MHz, the RAM is most likely the problem.
Did you lower the CPU ratio to 11x? If you did, the CPU is only running at 2.475GHz (11 x 225), meaning it's only overclocked a measely 75MHz. That points to something else as the problem...once again, is it the RAM? However, if you did lower the ratio to 11x & also have the RAM at 166MHz, the CPU & RAM aren't the problem, the motherboard is.
Still another possibility is that you didn't change the ratio & left at the default (12x), meaning the CPU is clocked at 2.7GHz (12 x 225MHz).
Check your BIOS settings & fill in these blanks:
CPU Frequency = ??
HT Frequency = ??DRAM Configuration - press ENTER for memory options:
- Timing Mode - ??
- Memclock index value (Mhz) - ??
- CAS# latency (Tcl) - ??
- Min RAS# active time (Tras) - ??
- RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd) - ??
- Row precharge Time (Trp) - ??
- 1T/2T Memory Timing - ??CPU Ratio - ??
CPU Voltage Select - ??
"If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction
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heres what i have
CPU Frequency = 225
HT Frequency = 4xDRAM Configuration - press ENTER for memory options:
- Timing Mode - manual
- Memclock index value (Mhz) - 166
- CAS# latency (Tcl) - 2.5
- Min RAS# active time (Tras) - 11T
- RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd) - 3T
- Row precharge Time (Trp) - 3T
- 1T/2T Memory Timing - 2TCPU Ratio - x11 2200mhz
CPU Voltage Select - 1.50
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OK, the CPU is running at 11 x 225 = 2475MHz, that's only 75MHz over the default of 2400MHz. Your CPU should be able to run at 2.7GHz at least, so that seems to indicate the board/chipset as the problem.
Try these underclock settings as a test. The HT bus, memory & CPU are basically taken out of the picture but the chipset is overclocked to 250MHz. If it won't boot, you've found the problem.
CPU Frequency = 250
HT Frequency = 3x
Memclock index value (Mhz) - 133
CPU Ratio - x8 1600mhz
CPU Voltage Select - AUTO
"If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction
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it said this
Waning! Now system is in safe mode.
Please re-setting CPU frequency in the CMOS setup
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If you configured it correctly, the CPU would be underclocked to 2.0GHz, the RAM to 166MHz & the HT bus to 750MHz...that's well below what they're designed to run at. The only thing overclocked is the chipset. Since you got the warning message, it would appear that the motherboard/chipset is what's holding you back. If you have the option, you could try throwing a little more voltage into the northbridge...if not, you're pretty much stuck. That means a complete revamp of the overclock settings. Try these:
CPU Frequency = 210MHz
HT Frequency = 5x
HT Width = 16 16
DRAM Configuration - press ENTER for memory options:
- Timing Mode - manual
- Memclock index value (Mhz) - 200
- CAS# latency (Tcl) - 2.5
- Min RAS# active time (Tras) - 11T
- RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd) - 3T
- Row precharge Time (Trp) - 3T
- 1T/2T Memory Timing - 1T
CPU Spread Spectrum - Disabled
SATA Spread Spectrum - Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum - DisabledRatio/Voltage Control
CPU Ratio - x12 2400Mhz
CPU Voltage Select - AUTOThat will put the CPU at 2.52GHz, RAM at 210MHz, HT at 1050MHz.
Just thought of something...are you able to lock the PCI bus at 33MHz & the PCI-e bus at 100MHz?
"If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction
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I tried those setting and it booted fine and ran prime95 for a hour without any problems and the temp didn't pass 57c
so i tried raising the cpu freq to 215 and prime95 got a error... so i guess im maxed out?
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You know from your previous attempt that the chipset is capable of 225MHz, so something else must be holding you back...probably the RAM. Try raising the RAM voltage by 0.10v & see if that allows you to bump the CPU freq to 215MHz or higher. The default voltage of your RAM is *probably* 2.5v, but if you don't know for sure, download & run CPUZ (you may already have it), then click on the SPD tab...the default voltage will be listed at the bottom of the table.
"If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction
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