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Building First Computer-Need Advice
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Response Number 1
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Name: Cobra_R
Date: October 10, 2006 at 01:58:52 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)Why don't you build a Core 2 Duo system for a gaming rig. AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ OC 2.7ghz
2GB Dual Channel DDR 3200
Nvidia 7900GT
SATA II 2x 300gig 7200rpm 16mb cache RAID-0
Gigabyte Nforce 4 SLI
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Response Number 2
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Name: jam
Date: October 10, 2006 at 05:40:56 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)IMO, you're overpaying for the RAM & the case. And why would you go with an IDE HDD? You can build a Core2 for about the same price, possibly less.
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Response Number 3
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Reply: (edit)I agree with the above. You shouldn't even be considering the X2's if you're looking at performance only. If you prefer AMD, by all means, but performance is clearly in favor of Core 2 Duo. Plus, DDR2 RAM for the core 2 duo will be less, although you'll be spending a bit more for a motherboard. And an IDE hard drive is a big mistake. Go SATA with 16M cache preferably. "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
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Response Number 5
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Name: jam
Date: October 10, 2006 at 14:49:19 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)There are other decent boards out there based on the INTEL 975X...you certainly don't HAVE to pay $260. Same goes for the CPU. You could 'make do' with the E6400 for about $100 less...it still beats anything AMD has to offer & it really isn't that far behind the E6600. You don't have RAM listed, but you should be getting DDR2-800.
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Response Number 6
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Name: Sabertooth
Date: October 10, 2006 at 15:36:22 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)I am not with jam on this one. IMHO, the E6600 is the perfect pick in this particular case, and also based on the OPs flexible budget for the build. First off, we have cache. The Core 2 Duo E6600 features a full 4 MB of on-die L2 cache, identical to Intel's more expensive E6700 and X6800 models. In comparison, the less expensive low-end Core 2 Duo models (E6300 and E6400) only have 2 MB of shared L2 cache, as these models are based on the "Allendale" core architecture. While the E6300/E6400 models are excellent performers, their "Allendale" core architecture doesn't perform as well on a clock-for-clock basis against the full-fledged 4 MB cache equipped "Conroe" based processors. Especially in gaming environments, the extra cache does make a significant difference. Secondly, we have clock speed. On a performance per clock basis, the E6600 is right on par with the more expensive E6700/X6800 models. These models are simply clocked higher by default compared to the E6600. Thus, if one is to overclock the Core 2 Duo E6600 to higher clock speeds, you're essentially getting the same levels of performance (sometimes better) than Intel's several $100+ high-end models, but at a far lower price. And as we've all seen from online reviews, even the first Core 2 Duo E6600 models coming off Intel's fabrication lines are proving to be excellent overclockers, even with basic air-cooling. Even at stock clock speeds (i.e, no overclocking), Intel's Core 2 Duo E6600 is putting up numbers right on par with AMD's FX-62 processor, while at the same time consuming less power and creating less heat and correspondingly less noise. Thirdly (and perhaps most importantly), we have pricing. Intel's competitive pricing for the Core 2 processors ranges from $180 (low-end E6300) to $900+ (high-end X6800), so one would expect the mid-range E6600 model to land somewhere in the middle, say $450 - $500. Amazingly, this is not the case, as Intel is being extremely aggressive with pricing and the chip is now shipping at price ranges between $300 - $350. Thus, the expectation is that one can pick up one of these processors and easily overclock it to performance levels of Intel's high-end models. The Secret Letter From Iraq
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Response Number 9
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Reply: (edit)"Thirdly (and perhaps most importantly), we have pricing. Intel's competitive pricing for the Core 2 processors ranges from $180 (low-end E6300) to $900+ (high-end X6800), so one would expect the mid-range E6600 model to land somewhere in the middle, say $450 - $500. Amazingly, this is not the case, as Intel is being extremely aggressive with pricing and the chip is now shipping at price ranges between $300 - $350." I gotta get you on this, Sabertooth. :-) I know what you're saying, but the reality is the E6600 is not 83% faster in performance than the E6400, while it's price is 83% higher. Jam has a good point there. BUT... I'm throwing my hat in with you on this. For $150ish more, double the cache will keep you from needing a CPU upgrade down the road as fast simply because of the additional L2 cache. On top of that, upgrading to a 4M cache Core 2 Duo would probably cost more to upgrade to later rather than now. (E6300 now + E6400 or better later costs > than E6400 now.) I think for $150 that's worth it. "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
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Response Number 10
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Reply: (edit)"Maybe I'm just too 'frugal' for my own good...lol." Anyone upgrading to a single core now of all times is too frugal for their own good. :-) *cough* jam! *cough* "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
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Response Number 11
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Name: Sabertooth
Date: October 10, 2006 at 18:43:13 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)The price difference (between E6300 & E6600 CPUs) is actually about 74% but that is really trivial, you look at the sub total of the two systems post built and what you realize is that the E6600 system is "just 10%" costlier for the OP to rig up. However, we all know damn well - the performance difference is undoubtedly more than "just 10%".
The Secret Letter From Iraq
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Response Number 12
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Reply: (edit)But Jam has a point - The E6300 or the E6400 would beat the X2 originally speced. He doesn't have to get the E6600 to beat the system he originally speced for the money. Granted, I agree, the E6600 is the better bet, but it's still a good point. To address the OP's remaining questions: "I chose IDE because my old computer is IDE. Im not 100% familiar with SATA harddrives... Dont you need a Raid Controller too?" No, you do not. You simply need a SATA controller, which virtually every motherboard you'd look at for this system would have. In fact, SATA is easier to configure. There's no master/slave/cable select to deal with. But most importantly, they're faster than IDE drives, although not by much. Still, why not SATA? Good call on the Seagate drive btw. Best drive quality and speed wise for the money. You may want to try using the coupon code "mybarracuda" to save another $5 off the price. "Isnt RAM cross-platform. How would it be cheaper?" You originally speced a S939 X2, which uses DDR1 series RAM. The core 2 duo uses DDR2 series RAM, which is generally less costly at the moment, and will continue to be cheaper as more DDR2 is produced than DDR. "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
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Response Number 13
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Name: thenightfly
Date: October 10, 2006 at 19:21:10 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)Thanks all for commenting. Ive learned alot in this thread even though i know a lot about computers, yet ive never actually built one. I think im going to stick with the E6600 mainly because i can probably afford it. Im also going with the ABIT AW9D-MAX Socket T motherboard as well, and Corsair 2gig DDR2 800 ram. I have one final question, and that is about pc cooling. I was looking at the Zalman CNPS9500 but im not too sure if it would fit this setup. Please point me in the right direction on this one. Thanks
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Response Number 14
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Reply: (edit)I wouldn't do an Abit motherboard. They lack in quality compared to other boards generally such as DFI, Asus, MSI, and Gigabyte. Good call on the CPU. About the cooling... Dude, if you're not gonna do heavy overclocking, just get a retail boxed processor with a cooler and be done with it. If you want to overclock later, you can get a better cooler then if you want. However, I don't see you even needing to overclock for quite some time. "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
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Response Number 16
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Reply: (edit)Tweaktown remember is testing the motherboard over a week period, not a long period of time you'll own the motherboard. "How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"
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Response Number 17
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Name: Sabertooth
Date: October 10, 2006 at 20:48:36 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)Abit boards were "legendary" back in the Socket A mobile 2500+ (Barton) era, but their reputation went into a steep decline afterwards and the AW9D-MAX is their strongest attempt to reclaim that notoriety till date. My take on the motherboard is to go with something like the 965 based P5B-Deluxe from ASUS, but seeing that it will cost you about $200 (and only extreme overclockers pay that much for a motherboard) and tops out at roughly 380MHz when overclocked, you might as well add $25 for the Abit AW9D-MAX for a shot at 408MHz. Otherwise, go for what I'd consider an round better pick - the vanilla (also 965 based) P5B Intel for just $150 and enjoy the moderate (3GHz+) overclock you can eke out of that motherboard. Goodluck!
The Secret Letter From Iraq
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Response Number 18
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Name: Sabertooth
Date: October 10, 2006 at 23:28:21 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)"I gotta get you on this, Sabertooth. :-) I know what you're saying, but the reality is the E6600 is not 83% faster in performance than the E6400, while it's price is 83% higher. Jam has a good point there." I initially misread the E6600 vs E6400 comment by hero as E6600 vs E6300, I'd just caught that part & felt obligated to post this to set the record straight since hero has this weird and dogged obsession of picking apart virtually all my responses, regardless of the thread topic. Quite unfortunately, I am not yet sure if in all actuality - the motive is to subdue my willingness to help others or something else ??? AFAICT, the E6400 is currrently available for roughly $220, while you can pick up an E6600 for $315. That is just $95 price disparity, which to me amounts to approximately 44% more and nowhere near the (almost twice as much) 83% price difference claimed by hero. Lastly, nowhere did I write that jam did not have a point with his entry level Conroe suggestion. All I recall writing, was that I do not agree with the suggestion based on the reasons that I outlined much earlier. The Secret Letter From Iraq
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Response Number 19
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Reply: (edit)"I'd just caught that part & felt obligated to post this to set the record straight since hero has this weird and dogged obsession of picking apart virtually all my responses, regardless of the thread topic." If I had that obsession, I'd point out that technically the E6600 ($315) costs 75% more than the E6300 ($180), not 74%. (|180-315|) / 180 Dang it, I did it again, didn't I? :-) Whoa, dude! I was joking with you! Didn't you notice the :-) ? LOL, I actually agree with you. If you took that as anything other than just friendly joking, it wasn't intended as anything other than that. If I'm busting your balls, I'll let you know. In the meantime, let's bust jam's for being too frugal. I'll start the cheesy jokes... jam is so frugal, when he wants a milkshake at McDonald's, he puts it on layaway. Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina!www.redcross.org
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Response Number 20
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Name: Sabertooth
Date: October 11, 2006 at 07:48:01 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)"If I had that obsession, I'd point out that technically the E6600 ($315) costs 75% more than the E6300 ($180), not 74%. (|180-315|) / 180 Dang it, I did it again, didn't I? :-)" Wow! what a way to show you're not fixated on anything. And just so know, since you once again chose to overlook the obvious - internet pricing do change by the minute and the 74%-75% is explained by the E6600's $1 ($314 vs $315) best deal price change in-between the intervals of the two responses. Now I know you just can't help it......................LOL The Secret Letter From Iraq
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Response Number 21
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Name: jam
Date: October 11, 2006 at 11:46:21 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)Milkshakes are too expensive! I get the small coke, then sneak back & refill it 3-4 times just to get my money's worth - even if I gotta 'purge' to make more room 1st...LMAO!
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Response Number 23
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Reply: (edit)"Wow! what a way to show you're not fixated on anything." Are we cool with each other or not? LOL... Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina!www.redcross.org
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Response Number 25
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Reply: (edit)"Of course, I don't purge after I eat my happy meal, that would be a waste of food (& money)" Better value to do that actually so you eat it again. ROFL... Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina!www.redcross.org
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Response Number 28
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Name: matenzi
Date: October 13, 2006 at 22:12:14 Pacific
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Reply: (edit)um am i the only one that sees that there is no sound card listed? or is that built into your motherbaord? or am i missing something?
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