hardware wise what is the best use of 2 grand? i have been working for a couple of years (im 17) and have saved 4200 dollars. half of it is going in my wheels, but i wish to to spend 2K on a new gaming system. i know that is probably overkill but i wish to use my $$$ this way. what is the best use of this money? i was thinking along the lines of:

- Socket 939 SLI motherboard w/ PCI-e
- 4gb PC3200 RAM (1gb x4)
- AMD X2 4200+ CPU (overclock)
- Good Cooling System (overlarge fan, slot cooling fan)
- Nvidia 6800GT PCI-e graphics card x2 (overclock 'em both)
- 400-500 watt power supply
- 300gb 16mb cache 7200rpm SATA hard drive
- 16x DVD-ROM
- 16x DVD-RW
- Custom case w/ neon (blue) lights and clear side

i know 4gb of RAM is overkill but what the hell i have money to burn. the mobo i had in mind will only support up to PC3200, that is why i cant use PC4000. and i want SLI. what is the best use of my 2K? i would like opinions on how best to spend it. the other 2200 is going into my car.

cheers,
Dragon

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

Yes, it is overkill and a waste of money. Why not drop to 1 gig of ram and use the extra cash for upgrading something that will actually yield a performance boost?

Such as, 6800 ultra's or 7800 GTX's for your SLI configuration.

Or, buy another hard drive. Such as a western digital raptor and use it for windows and games and use the 300GB for file storage e.g. mp3's, video's, downloaded files.

Have the lambs stopped crying Clarice?

6800 Ultra's are better then GTs? i usually use ATI so i dont know alot about nviida cards. is there some way to disable SLI if a certain game does not support it? actually, i was considering dropping the SLI idea for two reasons: a) some games dont yet support it b)i could get a motherboard that supports higher speed RAM would this be a good idea?

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

put your money away for college

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

I second Jam, having "A top" computer is great and all but what will it bring you other then good FPS and bragging rights.

Abit AN8 Socket 939
AMD64 3000+ -1.8Ghz @ 2.0Ghz
Corsair 1Gig 2x512
MSI Radeon x800 PCI-E 390@445-700@1000
Seagate 160Gig SATA
Antec TrueControle 2.0 550 Watts

i am a gamer. i like to do alot of gaming. anyway, my parents are helping me pay for college. cant anyone just answer my questions??

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

The general consensus if that it's overkill & a waste of money. You're gonna do whatever you want to with it anyway, so why bother to ask?

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

First off, SLI support for games is a function of the drivers not the games. See this article. Current and future games will be supoprted with each new release of Nvidia drivers.

I would drop to only 2GB or RAM. Then instead of the 2x 6800GTs (yes the Ultras are better), get a single 7800GT or 7800GTX. With both of these you can always add more later without sacrificing what you already bought (as opposed to upgrading the CPU).

I would also suggest getting a 74GB raptor drive as your primary drive, but also get a 300GB drive for added storage.

Power Supply - Do NOT skimp here. Get a 500+ power supply that is rated to support SLI (in case you want to go that route later). Get a good name brand and check reviews.

Michael J

well thanx for the help ppl i may be acting like kind of a dumb a$$ today but this is because i havent had sleep in two days :-)

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

You will find these interesting and helpful in regards to the video card choice.

0. Numbers.
1. Obstacles.
2. Workaround.

BTW, cut the ram in half (2GB) and you don't need two optical drives, get the fastest DL burner you can find (not necessarily the most expensive) and make sure your PSU have enough amp distribution on the +12v rail (at least 24A).

I'd go with custom built on the hard drive, a raptor for the system drive and get an external firewire/USB enclosure for the 300GB hard drive.

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#1. Windows XP has a 4GB memory address limit, which combines virtual and physical. It is without a doubt an absolute complete waste of money. There is absolutely no reason to get 4GB of RAM for XP. Heck, I see enterprise servers that have 4GB of RAM and don't use it. You might as well burn your money in effigy. Freaking donate the money to the American Red Cross or something!

Other things that are better ways to spend it - a whaling UPS, dual monitors, an X-Fi sound card, whaling speakers, external hard drive for complete system backups, two internal drives for RAID1 mirror (if one drive dies, the other automatically takes over). Many of these are completely unnecessary, but they're certainly more useful.

#2. Dual core is useless for gaming right now. Since you want to waste that much money on a CPU that's going to be overkill, FX-57 is a much better solution for gaming.

Either way, get XP Pro. Home doesn't support multiprocessor, which also means dual core.

#3. SLI is pointless. Get the best single video card you can.

#4. You're not going to see much difference with a Raptor. But then again, you're spending tons of money for negligible performance gains all over the place. *shrug*

#5. Two optical drives is useful for copying media. Considering how much money you're wasting on other things, why the heck not?

#6. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU NEED TO OVERCLOCK ANYTHING IN THIS RIG?!?!?!? This system as you've spec'ed it will be well over $2000. Why would you want to take the slightest chance with it?! And isn't the whole point of overclocking to get a noticeable performance gain? Your eyes can only see so many FPS.

"i am a gamer. i like to do alot of gaming."

I don't care how much gaming you like to do, this is strictly for bragging rights only. There's no way you're going to see a difference between this system you're proposing to build and another one half the cost during gameplay. This system will do better only in benchmarks, not by your eyes.

If your parents are helping you pay for college, put this money away for AFTER college. Invest it. Give it to charity. Build a home theater. Find another hobby. I love having a whaling system as much as the next person, but this completely defies all logic and reason.

"a raptor for the system drive and get an external firewire/USB enclosure for the 300GB hard drive."

If your internal drive is a 74 gig raptor, I would get an internal drive for the large drive since they're way faster, and you could use up 74 gigs rather easily. Then get another external drive for system backups.

not that i would want to spend 5 grand on a computer but i just found a SUPER GAMER on eBay. check these specs for overkill, you think mine is bad?

it had:

DFI Lanparty NF4 SLI mobo
4gb PC3200
2x Nvidia 7800GTX GFX cards (SLI)
2x 300gb HDD + 80gb Raptor HDD
X2 4800+ CPU OVERCLOCKED to the level that would be a 5400+ via liquid cooling

still think my plan is overkill?

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

hmm if i had that much money i would get the 2 gigs ram, raptor+storage, and one 7800 GT. Money leftover, get some kick ass peripherals.

LCD screen, Big ass CRT
Then i would throw down the rest the money on the XI-FI sound card, paired with Creative Megaworks Speakers. Music music musiiccccc, enough to blow out your neighborhood. now that's some bragging rights.

Let's not be too hard on this kid, with all the nuances that tends to distract teenagers. I give him kudo's for having enough self-restraint and discipline to be able to have save over $4000 in two years.

If he wants to spend half of it on a kick ass system, let's help him get the best system for $2000.00, that's my two cents.

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Hey Dragon,

Your youth is showing....

I vote we stop answering Dragon's questions, unless he asks "real" questions

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

thank you saber. and jam, that kinda hurts man i thought you were a good guy.

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

Dragon,

I tried to work with you & I've answered a lot of your questions over the past weeks/months, but you've gotten outta hand...I would go as far as saying you've gotten lazy. Many of the questions you ask are easily researchable, but instead of dumping a few terms in google or checking the hardware related websites, you ask here & then one of us end up doing your work for you. I agree completely with what hero wrote in response 10. You don't seem to be thinking things thru...youve got a wad of money & you intend on burning thru it all. I realize you're trying to get the best of the best, but you're not considering how these pieces are gonna work together. Listen to hero, he knows his stuff...4GB of RAM is a total waste, so is SLi, & the X2 CPU is not good for gaming.

You're just gonna keep asking until you find someone that supports your ideas...even if the score is 12 vs 1, you're gonna listen to the 1 because your mind is already made up.

I'll tell ya what...go ahead & build your high money rig. I suggest you top it off with WinXP x64 too...LOL

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

hey don't drag x64 into this, it has enough of its own problems! lol, but for heveans sakes I run it on a sempron, far from the top of the line ;)

But seriously its his money let him waste it, just don't come back 6 months down the road from now how the cheapest way to get better performance out of your system. If it was me, I'd probably spend $1000 now to get a darn good Pc, then sock the other $1000 away for a rainy day (or a year down the road upgrades).

P.S. About x64 -
"Having mostly solved these launch problems, Windows XP Professional x64 Edition offers support for 64 bit processors. More than 4 GB of system RAM can be addressed, and the widened data width provides substantial performance improvements using applications ported to, or written for, 64 bit Windows."

Windows Xp Pro x64
AMD Sempron 3000+ 1.8ghz
1 Gig Ram pc2700
Nforce 4 Motherboard
Radeon X700 256mb
Realtek Ac 97 Onboard Audio
Thermaltake 430W Power Supply

I was joking about x64...it's not ready for "mass consumption" yet. It's gonna be a while before drivers & software catch up...but knowing Dragon, he'll want it anyway...lol

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

eh figured that much, I dual boot between x64 and xp 32 anyways. The biggest problem at this point is getting some companies (not naming names) to recognise x64 as a viable platform, when all it takes is some simple msi editing for applications to install and function correctly its just kinda a crock the runaround some companies give the enlargening x64 users. Though its true some programs do need to be re-written to function on x64, I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Windows Xp Pro x64
AMD Sempron 3000+ 1.8ghz
1 Gig Ram pc2700
Nforce 4 Motherboard
Radeon X700 256mb
Realtek Ac 97 Onboard Audio
Thermaltake 430W Power Supply

and i have appreciated it. i have tried to run some searches before asking a quetion and the IE search companion is either useless or there is nothing of relevance on the web on anything i search for.

btw, as far as windows i will probably wait until Windows Vista (or whatever the heck they are calling it now) to some out for an OS on my machine.

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

"still think my plan is overkill?"

Tell me how this nut's system changes anything I said about your proposed system.

If someone asked me if I thought it was stupid to jump off a 4 story building, even if he then pointed to someone jumping off a skyscraper, I'd still think he was stupid.

"and jam, that kinda hurts man i thought you were a good guy."

He and I have to no avail tried to persuade you to not waste your money. I call that being a good guy.

And I honestly agree with him. You ask our advice, we give it to you, back it up with facts, and then you respond you're gonna do it anyway. Just go spend all your money and be done with it.

"i will probably wait until Windows Vista (or whatever the heck they are calling it now) to some out for an OS on my machine."

I'd comment about this, but you're not going to listen. It's like rearranging deck furniture on the Titanic.

Help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. Please donate to the American Red Cross.

www.redcross.org

"It's like rearranging deck furniture on the Titanic."

you are both good guys, and beleive it or not i have decided to take your suggestions. i will fill the four memory slots with 512mb sticks instead of 1gb sticks. i do appreciate all the advice you give me. instead of an X2 i will get an FX-55 and instead of 2x 6800 Ultras i will get one 7800GT. i do appreciate advice and i thought on it a while and will take it. please do comment about Vista. you think i should stick with XP Pro even when Vista comes out?

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

I don't see anything Vista will offer that's going to make games run any better. Instead, expect degradated performance due to the large overhead with the revamped GUI and all the additional features. Whether those features are worth that performance degradation, that's your call.

Help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. Please donate to the American Red Cross.

www.redcross.org

hmmm...guess i will stick with xp pro

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

The only thing that (I'll totally agree with everyone here) "overkilled" rig would accomplish would be running the same game under two separate windows. (Some games allow this feature, WoW as one example, for people who have multiple accounts and wish to power-level themselves or to invite one another to a guild. I'd do it if I had this rig, quite honestly.)

Other than that, though, I'd say bump it up to 3GB RAM rather than 2GB. Leave one slot for later upgrades if abso-friggin-lutely necessary (in about 4 years when games get demanding). The 7800GT will suffice, as will the FX-57. Next thing you're gonna worry about is your sound card. I don't know much about them, but I know mine gives me trouble. Anyhow, peripherals are where you'll want to put some money in, as above stated by another poster. A 19'' LCD would be gorgeous to game on, but what's really going to shine is a nice six-speaker surround-sound system.

Just my $.02.

No one can predict what's in store for PCs 4 yrs from now...but you can be fairly sure the FX-57, 7800GTX, & DDR-SDRAM will be old news.

You have to use you head & look at history. Go back in time to 2001...AMD just released the Athlon XP Palomino, the VIA KT133A was the hot chipset, PC133 was the RAM to have, & the Radeon 8500 was the hot card.

How many gamers are still running that setup? Do you still think you'll be gaming with a 2005 system in 2010? Not likely....

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

"Other than that, though, I'd say bump it up to 3GB RAM rather than 2GB."

Why? 2GB of RAM you can barely see a difference in games if any compared to 1GB.

Help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. Please donate to the American Red Cross.

www.redcross.org

probably so you CAN still game with a 2005 system in 2010. that 2001 rig is still decent for lower end gaming. there are so many computer games to choose from at a given time, you can still game on an old system just with "old" games. for example, i am having a good time playing Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness on my current rig (1.0ghz, 512mb, Radeon 9200) at highest graphics settings (which look pretty decent for the age of the game), but the system requirements are 450mhz with 128mb if i remember correctly. "old" games can be just as fun as modern ones. and it would be nice to have a system that could play games, if on lower settings, for a couple of years to come. hence why i wanted 4gb of RAM and all the other highest end hardware.

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

"probably so you CAN still game with a 2005 system in 2010"

I realize that...but I'm assuming in 2010, you're gonna want to play 2010 games, not 2005 games. I'm also assuming that you're a "hardcore gamer" that will settle for nothing less than cutting edge.

A true hardcore gamer would never settle for DOOM3 on a system with an XP1500+ Palomino, KT133A board, 512MB PC133, & 64MB Radeon 8500, even though it may be perfectly acceptable to a casual gamer

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

i may be something in between hard core and casual. i like to have cutting-edge when i can but when i cannot i will rather play the game then not because the system isnt lightning-fast. a 2010 game will probably be capable of playing on a 2005 system, just maybe not on the top graphics settings. i will settle for less if it not possible to get more, you know?

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

"probably so you CAN still game with a 2005 system in 2010. that 2001 rig is still decent for lower end gaming."

And you could play that Tomb Raider game with a system that wasn't bleeding edge bought in 2001. Not to mention had you not blown every dollar you had in 2001, you could afford upgrades in 2005 much easier. Learn your lesson and keep your money for the inevitable upgrade you must always do, not matter how bleeding edge your system is today.

"a 2010 game will probably be capable of playing on a 2005 system"

Oh, so FEAR, Doom3, Half Life 2, Battlefield 2, etc. can play on a 2000 machine? I don't think so!

To play 2010 games, you're gonna need something better than the bleeding edge systems of today.

Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina.

www.redcross.org

it has got to slow down eventually. i mean, by 2020 we are gonna have 10ghz+ systems with 8gb RAM and 1gb gfx cards? no. it has got to slow down eventually.

i WAS able to make D3 run on my current rig. you may be doubtful, but i swear. my radeon 9200 128mb AGP is o/c a bit, and i ran D3 on LOWEST settings at lowest resolution. i ended up returning it because even then it obviously did not run great but it did run.

you dont think it will eventually slow down? as you said yourself the game industry SHOULD focus on quality of game plot and entertainment, not looking more realistic then life, you know? but i will set my sites lower for my current 'project'.

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

it just sucks that a good system today will be so obsolete so quickly. in a way, hardware development should slow down. the more it increases the more teh demand for it increases and the more 'junk' and 'slow' systems end up rusting in land fills.

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

Dude convert to a console gamer, it'll save you alot more money than your currently proposing! (j/k)

Seriously though, thats just the way the computer industry is. thats not to say a moderately priced pc couldn't last you on a stretch of say 2 years, but 5 years down the road.... were just beginning on dual processors and 64 bit processing, theres still much to come. Though if things go the way they have been your operating system should still be current in 5 years since microsoft has really dropped the ball on this release cycle compared to the past. (Not saying that I think they need to release like mad dogs either, I mean 98, 98se, me, 2000...)

Also almost any game will RUN on a 5 year old machine (32 mb graphics card) nobody said accepably though, I mean as long as you enjoy looking at a slide show, its your perogative lol.

Windows Xp Pro x64
AMD Sempron 3000+ 1.8ghz
1 Gig Ram pc2700
Nforce 4 Motherboard
Radeon X700 256mb
Realtek Ac 97 Onboard Audio
Thermaltake 430W Power Supply

LOL yeah this is true

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

"it has got to slow down eventually."

History suggests it won't. The pace of technological innovation is quickening. That means it's probably going to speed up.

"the more it increases the more teh demand for it increases and the more 'junk' and 'slow' systems end up rusting in land fills."

And the cheaper systems become. It's not so bad in my book.

"as you said yourself the game industry SHOULD focus on quality of game plot and entertainment"

And I also know that without the hardware backing it up, games like Half Life wouldn't exist. Technological innovation doesn't have to mean crappier gameplay.

Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina...err...Rita. Starting to lose track...

www.redcross.org

It's not gonna slowdown. We're moving toward VR...& eventually, the Matrix

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

i may be just a fool but i just hate to think of systems that were once top-of-the-line rusting and rotting in landfills, to become just more trash that will eventually cover the entire planet surface. what is the point of biulding a computer now if it will be obsolete in 10 years and probably end up rusting in a landfil in another 5 or so?

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

Its evolution to a tee... Not much you can do about it except stretch your buck....

Windows Xp Pro x64
AMD Sempron 3000+ 1.8ghz
1 Gig Ram pc2700
Nforce 4 Motherboard
Radeon X700 256mb
Realtek Ac 97 Onboard Audio
Thermaltake 430W Power Supply

" i just hate to think of systems that were once top-of-the-line rusting and rotting in landfills"

Look at it this way...

Today's computers use the same amount or less raw materials as the computers 10 years ago, but they're faster and infinitely more useful today. You tell me which is tragic, the old or new computers.

Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina...err...Rita. Starting to lose track...

www.redcross.org

of course the old computer and i hate to think of them either (that is why i still have 2 P1s, a 486, and a 386 in my basement) but in anohter ten years todays systems will be like those are now and will be just as tragic. it just plain sux any way you look at it.

Never try to teach a hog to sing. It frustrates you and aggravates the hog.

Here in NY, we have several "electronics recycling days" per year...the fall drop-off is scheduled for this Saturday. The push is for computers, monitors, printers...but they also accept TVs, stereos, VCRs, etc. Obviously it takes a little more effort than simply carrying it to the curb, but the turn out is usually very good (weather permitting). They generally get several tractor trailer loads full of "junk".

The recycling shop is just a few miles from my house & when I accumulate enough stuff, I usually take a ride. I've gotten to know the people & they usually take care of me by tossing me a CPU, some RAM, a HDD, or monitor...or sell them really cheap. They have about a dozen young kids working there, dismantling everything...virtually everything is reused/recycled. Even the plastic goes to a local "waste to energy" plant. More areas should have such programs. And there's also local online groups like freecycle.org who try to keep stuff from landfills by providing a method for members to simply give stuff away. And of course, there's always, GoodWill, Amvets, Salvation Army, etc. Unfortunately, it seems like the majority of people aren't willing to take the time to "save the earth" & simply carry the stuff to the curb

ASUS A7N8X-X
Athlon XP 1800+
8.5 x 200MHz
1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7
Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB
WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

"it has got to slow down eventually."

Uh-uh.
I still remember playing Wing Commander (quite choppily) on my 386 12 MHz. Oh yeah, and it had a turbo button that clocked it up to 25 MHz =). That was in 1992. I remember thinking back then, "wow, you can move in six degrees! Games can't POSSIBLY get more advanced than this!"

Well, the average speed of any computer part has been doubling every one and a half years for the last three decades, and it's just going to get worse. The emphasis in the 21st century for games isn't necessarily a good game, but a big shiny tech-demo (Doom 3 anyone?) and with ATi and nVidia perpetually at war, things will just get worse.

Also, DDR is reaching its limits. Sure, there's DDR2 for Intel systems but they're just more pins/higher freq. It's an old tech that's bound to be replaced sometime very soon, probably by something like GDDR3 or something entirely new.

So, for the next twenty years or so I'd think comps would advance even faster than before, not slower. All future-proofers, beware!!

A 10Ghz processor is kinda unlikely but I think later on AMD and INTEL will work on dual-core of quad-core later on.... And then software will become multi-threaded so it can take advantage of dual core cpus.. Who knows, If I had 2 grand, I'll save it... By the way... I'm still using a 2002 motherboard Asus A7V classic with PC133 RAM... Still good...

TMP-Man

Asus A7V classic rev 1.05
Athlon XP 2100+ @ 101x20 1.75v
768MB PC133 RAM @ 134Mhz 2-2-2
40GB 5400RPM + 120GB 7200RPM HD
128MB Geforce FX5200 128bit