agp video cards

January 21, 2010 at 12:38:12
Specs: Windows XP
I need help buying a new video card. i know i have an old system but i cant afford a new one with pci express. so, what is the best video card recommened for apg 8x? i would like to play games like WOW and flight simulator x. i have amd athlon xp 2800 processor and 1gig ddr 3200 ram. my psu is 400w. and im running all this on a k7n2 delta l motherboard.

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#1
January 21, 2010 at 13:32:25
Psu 400w?We need to know how much amps are in +3.3v,+5v,+12v. U mention the best video card recommended for agp x8 the best agp card is hd 4670 but it's expensive better look for radeon hd 2600xt, radeon x1650 pro, x1950 pro.Wow it's not demanding game but flight simulator x is very demanding game so better choose card that will run medium or low.

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#2
January 21, 2010 at 13:33:52
Are you willing to pay $100?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...


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#3
January 21, 2010 at 13:44:14
im not sure about all that amp stuff on the power supply or even how to check that info for u. and i would like to only spend around 100 bucks. i heard the sapphire radeon 3850 is the best, but im not sure if it would be good in my setup. plus will my 400w power supply be enough for it.

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Related Solutions

#4
January 21, 2010 at 13:57:20
U mention old system that why i ask about amps.Check the psu label. Go 4 the card jam recommended (hd 3850).

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#5
January 21, 2010 at 14:57:56
i did check the label all those numbers were on current part +3.3v,-5v,+12v or something like that. its a atx 400w and yes i think i will get the card jam mentioned, i just hope my power supply can power it good. thank you both for you help.

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#6
January 22, 2010 at 14:23:48
"i did check the label all those numbers were on current part +3.3v,-5v,+12v"

You may have checked but you didn't bother to list the amperage ratings.


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#7
January 22, 2010 at 19:00:17
Model: AL-A400ATX
PSU: ATX12V Version 2.2
Dimension: 5.5" x 6.0" x 3.3" (D) x (W) x (H)
Cooling: 2 x 80mm Ball Bearing Fan
MTBF: 50,000 Hours
Approval: UL, CSA, FCC
Input range: 90~132V or 180V~264Vac
Frequency: 47~63Hz
Input Current: 400W 10A/6A @ 115/230 Vac
Efficiency: 65% at full load, nominal line

sorry i didnt list it before. i think u mean the 10a/6a part right. i looked up some info on that 3850 radeon hd and it says it recommends atleast a 450w power supply. so does anyone have any feeling about chiefmax 600 watt atx. looks good to me and its only 20 bucks.
http://3btech.net/chdufan600wa.html


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#8
January 22, 2010 at 21:38:36
Oh my god!! 600w psu for $20? I check the specs and it has single +12v@34 but it's cheapo psu don't buy it. Look for corsair cmpsu-400cx @ newegg.com

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#9
January 22, 2010 at 21:51:58
Woah...

First of all, on the psu is a label. On that label is an amperage value for the +12 volt rail. We always like to know that value.

Second, without looking up the model you posted, the specs you listed point to a crappy psu...65% efficiency and 50,000 hours MTBF are the hints.

Finally; $20? That's a sure sign you're gonna be replacing a crappy psu with another crappy psu. If you add up the advertised power on that 600W you get ~716W; tip of the iceberg for creative advertising. There's no mention of efficiency much less 80+.

Here's what you should be looking at for a psu. It will provide more usable power to your machine than the 600W will.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

Skip


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#10
January 22, 2010 at 21:52:32
What we need to know is amps of +3.3v,+5v,+12v any way i check the specs and found out the psu has dual +12v rails(+12v1@14A, +12v2@13A) i think the card will work.

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#11
January 23, 2010 at 06:41:56
"so does anyone have any feeling about chiefmax 600 watt atx. looks good to me and its only 20 bucks"

Do NOT buy that low end piece of sh!t. When it comes to PSU's, you get what you pay for. ChiefMax sucks! And you do NOT need a 600W PSU for your outdated system.

The 400W Corsair that Skip recommended is the exact PSU that I would have recommended. It's over 80% efficient, has a single +12v rail at 30A, 120mm cooling fan & a 3 yr warranty. And it's only $40. And when it comes to decent quality PSUs, $40 is a bargain.

And if the price for the PSU is too steep for you, cut down on the cost of the video card. I was 1/2 kidding when I recommended the HD3850 anyway. How about an HD4650 for about $70 plus the Corsair PSU for $40?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...


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#12
January 23, 2010 at 10:07:11
dude dude r u sure abt this man i mean man man just go for the last post or question jam asked u think abt it a 4650 and a psu thats good enough for ur games

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#13
January 23, 2010 at 17:30:47
ok i checked out that 400w CORSAIR and it looks really good but i dont think it will fit in my case. and im not going to rebuild the whole thing. plus the hd 3850 recommends a 450w psu with 30Amps on 12 volt with 2x4 power connector (which i cannot find.) and from what i looked up the hd3850 its the best agp card and its not wildly expensive. i agree the chiefmax is a peice of crap. so ill keep looking what does everyone thing about coolmax brand. id like to only pay about 25 buck on the psu. this one is recommended for the hd 3850 on superbiiz.com here is the link to check it out. THANKS EVERYONE you guys are a great help.

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name...


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#14
January 23, 2010 at 19:06:54
See the "inflated" +3.3v and +5v specs on that psu?

Now look at the same values on the Corsair.

I can tell you right now the Corsair 400 will run a HD 3850. Last one I did was in a P4 Prescott core, 3 HDD's, 2 DVD burners, 4 sticks ram, etc.

Buy what you want though; it's up to you and the warranty.

Skip


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#15
January 23, 2010 at 19:59:36
kakaman,

The HD3850 is the 2nd best AGP card available...the HD4670 is better. But your system is old & outdated. If you were running an Athlon64 AGP system, it may make sense to go with one of these cards, but since you're running an Athlon XP, you should set your sights a little lower. And it's obvious you don't know much about power supplies because you're basing you choices on wattage & price rather than amperage.

Look at the specs to the 400W Corsair:

+3.3v at 20A
+5v at 20A
+12v at 30A

The amperages are well distributed. Very few components rely on the +3.3v & +5v rails so 20A on each is plenty. The +12v rail is the "mother of all rails" & having a single +12v rail allows all components that need it to "feed" from the full 30A.

Now look at the 500W Coolmax specs:

+3.3v at 30A
+5v at 45A
+12v1 at 18A
+12v2 at 16A

With a split +12v rail, one rail is used solely by the CPU & can not be accessed by the other components, so all must "feed" from the other +12v rail.

Now lets do some math. The AXP 2800+ is rated at approx 68W & gets all it's power from the +12v. So if you know the formula (watts = volts x amps), you can figure the amps needed by the CPU. In your case, it's approx 5.7A (68/12). If the CPU uses the +12v2 rail, approx 10A (16a -5.7A) are "wasted" because they unuseable by the rest of the hardware.

Now, look at the ratings of the other rails. Since 20A is reasonable rating for the +3.3v & +5v, anything over that amount is wasted.

3.3v x 10A (30A-20A) = 33W (waste)
5v x 25A (45A - 20A) = 125W (waste)
33W + 125W = 158W (total waste)
500W (PSU rating) - 158W (total waste) = 342W (useable)

As far as useable power is concerned, the Coolmax 500W is closer to being a 340W unit than a 500W unit. And if you take into account the 10A trapped in the dedicated CPU rail, the useable power drops to about 220W.

You really need to rethink what you're doing.


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#16
January 24, 2010 at 03:09:40
I'm running the hd4650 Jam recommended on a 350W (26A on 12v rail)--completely stable. My cpu (Athlon XP 3000+) is bottle necking this card big time. However, most of my games, except for team fortress 2, run flawlessly with this card. Not a bad purchase for an aging AGP system.

The card will easily handle WOW (don't have the game), but not so much in Flight Simulator. FS X runs like poop on even the best systems. E.g. my dad has a Phenom II X4 paired with an HD4850, FS X runs, but with lowered detail. A single core cpu just isn't going to cut it in FS X anyway, keep that in mind.


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#17
January 24, 2010 at 03:38:13
@Plyduster

I remember running fligh simulator x high settings(1440x900 19inch lcd screen) in pentium dual core e2xxx series(can't remember but it was 2.2ghz oc to 2.9ghz) 2gb(single ddr2 800) with 1gb geforce 9800gt(forsa). But your dad has a better system hd4850 is better than 9800gt why running it in low detail?


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#18
January 24, 2010 at 08:08:59
haha good point kuwese yh man i mean think
lol

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#19
January 24, 2010 at 12:05:00
Kuwese,

Well, the game stutters in the city, with all the auto generated buidings. E.g. at S.F. International, frames per second are around 10--even with lowered detail. Don't ask me why this is the case, I have no idea. Out in the Sacramento Valley though, the fps improve to about 40. What kind of fps were you getting?


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#20
January 24, 2010 at 13:08:03
yes i want to thank jam for explaining how the psu specs work in detail like he did. that helped me understand it alot better and im sold on the corsair. its not really a bad price for a good quality psu. but i did have more questions. jam says the hd 4670 is better then the hd3850. but the hd 3850 512 cost more then the hd 4670 1gig. why is that? jam said on a post here that u get what u pay for. plus since my system is a old i figures going back to the hd 3850 would be better then the newer hd 4670. i really want to get the hd 3850. also my other question is does the corsair 400w recommened have the 2x4 connector that the hd 3850 needs. im going to be plugging in 1 floppy, 2 hdds, 1 combo dvd/cdrw, 1 cd drive, 3 sticks of ram, 1 pci fire wire, a bunch of fans, a few usb devices like controllers, and my htc fuze phone. the 400w should handle all that stuff any the hd 3850 right?

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#21
January 24, 2010 at 13:33:51
Both of those cards will be bottle necked by your cpu, so you will never get the best possible performance out of them. If I were you, I would get the 4650 jam suggested and save a few bucks.

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#22
January 24, 2010 at 13:52:29
i considered that but i cant seem to find the one recommended here
http://www.bestcovery.com/diamond-a...
and which one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

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#23
January 24, 2010 at 14:27:15
With the exception of the HD4650 w/DDR3 memory, all the rest of those cards have exactly the same basic specs. The difference is price & different video-out ports. Which combination of VGA, DVI, HDMI & S-video do you prefer?

Shop around a little, you may find a better price. Try Fry's, Mwave, Tiger-Direct (aka CompUSA, aka Circuit City), ZipZoomFly, etc.


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#24
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#25
January 24, 2010 at 15:12:29
wow my current card is on the bottom of that list. i have the nvidia tnt which has sucked since i first intalled it into my system. now u see why im so worried about buying another peice of ****. id rather have a bottle necked good card then a useless card that keeps freezing everytime i load WOW. and i have got flight simulator 2004 to run pretty good with a bunch of software running like 3d analize. id rather not have to use any extra software though. ok, as for video out. i need atleast 1 vga and a dvi out so i can use an adapter to run dual vga multiple monitors.

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#26
January 24, 2010 at 19:04:59
"i have the nvidia tnt"

I forgot to ask but you should have told us that from the very beginning. The TNT was an OK card back in it's day, but that was over 10 yrs ago. The original TNT was released in 98, the TNT2 was released a year later. And there were different 'flavors' of the TNT2 (Vanta, M64, plain vanilla, Pro, Ultra). It's no wonder your gaming performance sucks. Take a look at this benchmark chart from 2002 & see where the TNT2 ranked back then:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...

Not a single card on that entire list is a serious gaming contender in 2010. Any modern card you buy will be an extreme improvement over what you have now. But there's no point spending a lot of money on a card that will only be bottlenecked.

Take a breath & think for a bit...is it really worth investing $100-125 in a system that's worth probably 1/2 that much & that will never be a decent 2010 gaming rig?

BTW, have you looked at the system requirements for Flight Simulator X & WOW? They're not all that intense.

http://www.microsoft.com/games/pc/f...

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info...


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#27
January 25, 2010 at 00:12:14
Finally the agp card i mentioned in #1. And it's not worth to spend $100-125 (i know it's for u to decide).No single core cpu can take advatage of hd4670 or hd3850.If u want hd 4670 better buy new system to take advantage of it.

@plyduste
around 25fps below,sometimes i get 12fps but 20fps the game is playable.


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#28
January 25, 2010 at 03:39:44
ok i see what u guys are getting at. i shouldnt waste money on the best card if i cant even use it. ok well ive taken a good look at what the cards kuwese (in #1) and jam suggested. i looked on the chart jam put on #24. the x1950 pro is the highest on the Hierarchy Chart. and not a bad price for $65 bucks. but, its only 256mb. is that good enough? and is that about the what my system can use without bottlenecking and without going to low on graphic performance? remember i do have an athlon xp 2800 unlocked and its overclocked and running very stable.

yeah, i have the TNT2 m64 pro and i think i did get it back in 2002 or around there. i have changed mobo and cpu and a few other things since then, but kept the same card because to be honest it has held up pretty good and it always tries to run any game and NEVER freezes just really really low frame rates and it has played flight simulator but wont play WOW.
i recently bought a nvidia geforce 6200 and i hated it very much. i liked the dual vga but hated how it froze on every game i tried including WOW and it froze on Freelancer, but my trusty TNT2 played that game til i beat it. so i sent that 6200 peice of u know what back, put back in my TNT2 and started my quest for the best agp card i could find. that way i could get the best performance. but i really dont want to waste money so im understanding what u guys mean by good quality psu and wasting money on bottlenecking cards. thanks again everyone if u guys could answer the questions in the first paragragh on this post, it would be great thanks.


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#29
January 25, 2010 at 04:40:32
256mb x1950pro is fine go ahead and purchase it.

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#30
January 25, 2010 at 18:26:15
AGP Roundup -- New Cards, Old Systems -- Part 1

AGP Roundup -- New Cards, Old Systems -- Part 2

I actually have an X1950Pro in this machine & my CPU is a C2D.

Windows 7 News!


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#31
January 26, 2010 at 05:41:51
"remember i do have an athlon xp 2800 unlocked and its overclocked and running very stable"

I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. What are your overclock settings? Assuming your 2800+ is a Barton, you should at least be running it at 2.2GHz (11 x 200MHz) at 1:1 ratio with the RAM, AGP locked at 67MHz, all Spread Spectrum settings disabled, RAM timings at 2.5-3-3-11.


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#32
January 26, 2010 at 10:45:50
yes i have the 2800+ barton, those settings are right on the cpu but i have the agp at 71mhz. the spread spectrums are enabled still. and the ram timings are set on auto, i believe that havent changed from the original settings. i somtimes switch the cpu to 12.5 x 175mhz to get a faster cpu without overclocking everything else on the fsb.
do u still recommned the x1950 pro?

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#33
January 26, 2010 at 15:26:15
"do u still recommned the x1950 pro?"

Yes. And I recommend you try my overclock settings. Spread Spectrum should ALWAYS be disabled when overclocking & 71MHz is too high for the AGP bus. The 11 at the end of the timing string is very important. Unless your RAM is CAS 2, 2.5-3-3-11 is what's recommended for nForce2 boards.

"i somtimes switch the cpu to 12.5 x 175mhz to get a faster cpu without overclocking everything else on the fsb"

You should be taking full advantage of your board, RAM & CPU. Since your 2800+ is a Bartion AND it's unlocked, it's a 3200+ just waiting to happen. All you have to do is clock it correctly.

FSB is where the speed is. Your board, CPU & RAM are all capable of 200MHz. Why are you settling for 175MHz? Not only is 12.5 x 175MHz (2.1875Ghz) less than 11 x 200MHz (2.2GHz), but the FSB is running 12.5% slower & the RAM is underclocked.


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#34
January 26, 2010 at 15:35:46
cool, i will try those settings and thanks for your help jam. i think i have settled on the x1950 pro and the corsair 400w psu. thanks everyone for ur help. it sure has been an interesting and informative postings

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#35
January 26, 2010 at 15:36:56
Just addded more to the above.

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#36
January 26, 2010 at 16:01:15
i clock it at 12.5 x 175mhz because any higher then that windows wont load for some reason. the cpu isnt hot because i have a huge heatsink and big fan with a speed selecter on the back. unfortunitly i have two sticks of drr 256 at 333mhz and 1 stick ddr 512 at 400mhz. i have been trying to get it to run at the 2.2mhz but i never thought of turning off the spectrum settings. ill give it a shot.

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#37
January 26, 2010 at 18:04:32
Hold on! The RAM is screwing you up! You'll never get it to run at 200MHz with DDR333. Why has it taken so long to get to the bottom of your system configuration? And why did you say you have 1GB of DDR400? You should have told us all this stuff at the very beginning of the thread.

Stick with 12.5 x 175MHz.


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#38
January 26, 2010 at 18:49:31
oh because i already ordered another stick of ddr400 512 so when it gets here ill install it and get 1gig of ddr 400 then i'll try the setting you gave me. do i need to change the voltage setting too?

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#39
September 14, 2010 at 22:16:26
HP XW5000 Tower
2.8GHz Intel Pentium 4
1GB of Memory
80GB Hard Drive
DVD Burner
NVidia GeForce 6200 with 128MB

If anyone can, let me know what options I got with this pc.
best video card for it, I just got it off ebay for $70 I know its old, but the price seems good.


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#40
September 15, 2010 at 02:38:15
dude the system sounds pretty old depending on wut u use it plus the 6200 agp 8x is outdated if ur gunna get it ur stuck with old games outdated hardware everything is limited

computers are a second home
NVIDIA GeForce
toxict51


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