Hi Jam, (and others),
Aopen sent me a replacement card today. But this card too is not working on my comp. The comp refuses to come on with the card attached. On reading the sticker on the box, it says "ModelNo: VGA CARD 6600GT-DV 128 AGP(E)"
My earlier card did not have the (E) after agp.
This card is now working and I dont know what to do about it.

Sarosh

Just a guess...the "E" refers to AOpen's E-Color technology?

http://global.aopen.com.tw/products/vga/ecolor/coem.htm

I don't dare say what I suspect the problem is, but before jumping to any conclusions, I suggest you take the card to your hardware guy & have him test it in another system.

Hi Jam,
I had read something about agp-e being something similar to two two pci slots, with 133MB/s bandwith, or something.
http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=330
Basically, an AGPe slot is formed by converting two PCI slots into an AGP slot

I paid Rs.5000/- to dhl as shipping charges, where as the courier I sent it by charged me only Rs.850/-.

This is the last message I received from Aopen:
Hi,Sarosh ,

I will double confirm will our technical engineer what's different between agp(e) and agp . And let you know the status A.S.A.P

My friend has already purchased the 6800XT, jam. I am kind of glad she did, that is my last hope of any decent gaming now.

If the issue is with my PSU, I will surely let you know. I had phoned up my hardware guy, and I was supposed to go to him today with the card. But I was waiting to hear what the Aopen engineers would say.
I dont think it is a problem with the power supply, because when the card is plugged in, the computer does booth, but the monitor does not come it.
It just slightly turns on for a second, and then turns off immediately. However, windows loads fully, I can hear the windows intro music on my speakers.
So the computer does start with this card attached, but the monitor just turns on and off instantly.

Sarosh

"My friend has already purchased the 6800XT"

That was a bad move & in my opinion, a waste of money. You will see little or no performance difference over the 6600GT. But what's done is done.

The "E" is NOT AGP-E that you linked to. That AGP-E is a new type of graphics slot that some board manufacturer's are using. It allows AGP video cards to be used on the PCI-Express bus. Every manufacturer calls it something different...AGP-X, AGR, AGP-E, etc. The slot is very limited on which cards can be used on it. I guarantee you this is NOT the "E" in your model number.

Jam,
Any suggestions I can try out before dumping this card too?
The computer does start up with the card connected, and I can hear the windows logon music on my speakers.
The only problem is that the monitor just begins to come on for a second, and then goes off again instantly.

Sarosh

Are you sure your card is properly seated & fully snapped in?

If you can actually hear Windows chiming at load the problem is squarely visual related. So it is either the card is not installed right or your monitor isn't connected appropriately.

The internet is a series of tubes!

I am going to carry out a complete format now. The problem is that with the card fixed in, I cant even see the bios screen.
The monitor just flashes for a second and then goes off instantly, while windows continues to load. I can hear the windows chime everytime I start my computer.

The thing is that I cant even see my bios screen, so I am thinking that even formating may not help much, but I will try anyway.

Sarosh

As I stated in my earlier response this is not OS related at all. It is strictly between your card & the monitor and my bet is on the card.

The internet is a series of tubes!

I'm gonna go on record now as saying if this is due to your power supply, you owe a MAJOR apology to jam and myself.

Did you plug the power connector into the video card?

"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

I tried it with various power connectors.
I even removed the HD power cable and put it into my card.
I am going to take the card to my hardware guy tomorrow, so I will find out more then.

With my original 6600GT, the computer would booth even without any power cable fixed in, but when I started a game the drivers would pop up a warning window.

I am just guessing that this card is sending some strange signals to my monitor. My monitor begins to come on for a second, and then turns off instantly. I guess the monitor is not able to read the input of the card.

I carried out a complete format, and the exact same problem.

Sarosh

"I carried out a complete format, and the exact same problem."

No idea why you did that. You were told repeatedly that wouldn't correct the problem.

"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

You don't have to dump the card & formatting was a complete waste of time. How did you format anyway? Did you have to remove the 6600GT, replace it with the FX5200, & then format?

Take the 6600GT to your hardware dude & ask him to test it for you.

"I'm gonna go on record now as saying if this is due to your power supply, you owe a MAJOR apology to jam and myself."

Like I said, I won't dare say what I think the problem might be ;)

LOL....Jam

"Like I said, I won't dare say what I think the problem might be ;)"

I know what you mean, I was intimated a few days ago by the mod of his henceforth stricter guidelines on comments that insinuate a user as the problem with their computer.

The internet is a series of tubes!

dsarosh, have you ever considered getting an xbox?

The problem you are reporting I have seen before and has always been due to insufficient PSU rating. You can prove this by unplugging DVD-drives, any PCI cards, all your RAM and your Hard-disks and watching the PC run for about 1/2 second longer...

I will tell you all what happens tomorrow.
I guess you guys are right, but if the card is not getting enough power, wont it hang up the system?

The computer booths fine, its just the monitor that is not coming on.

I am taking it to my hardware dude tomorrow, and I will tell you what happens.

If it is the fault of my psu, I will admit it, no problem my dudes.

Interestingly though, the driver cd that came with this card was of the fx 5200, and one of the stickers in the pamplet had fx5900XT on it.
Also, no where is it mentioned whehter it is agp4x/8x.
All is says is agp(e)]
May be this card may run in an 8x motherboard.
I will find out tomorrow.

Sarosh

You should know this stuff!

- the 6600GT is 8X AGP but it's backwards compatible with 4X
- your motherboard is 4X
- the 6600GT uses the same drivers as the FX5200, so it really doesn't matter what CD you're given. The drivers that came with it are most likely outdated anyway. You should download & install the latest drivers anyway...version 91.31 (released June 23, 2006)

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_91.31.html

"The computer booths fine, its just the monitor that is not coming on"

I'm sure the monitor is 'ON', it's just not receiving a signal from the video card. So either the card isn't seated properly in the slot or it's defective...OR....

I won't dare say what I think another possibility might be ;)

"... henceforth stricter guidelines on comments"

That has an ominous ring to it - is this something like "the customer is always right" (even when they are so not)?

Saying that XP is the most stable MS OS is like saying that asparagus is the most articulate vegetable

Report Offensive Follow Up For Removal

Jam,
I took the card to my hardware guy today. We are having the exact same problem there too.
The computer booths, but the monitor refues to come on. I am guessing that two crappy psus may not be able to produce such striking similar results on two computers, but anyway...
The exact same thing happened at my hardware guys place, the computer boothed, but the monitor did not come on.

However, what the engineer did was turn off the monitor, and then turn it back again, and then we could see all sorts of scrambled text on the screen for few seconds, before the monitor went back into standby.

My hardware guys didnt seem to think the card was spoilt, rather he said that we should test in on an agp board. He was willing to assemble and agp 8x board, but I think it will be much more faster if the dudes at AOpen just state clearly that this card is fully 4x compatable or not.

"... henceforth stricter guidelines on comments"
That has an ominous ring to it - is this something like "the customer is always right" (even when they are so not)?

Dude, call me all you want, I dont take it personally. But I cant stand by and let you guys abuse people you dont know. My hardware guys may not be the great experts that you are, but they are honest, hardworking people, and I cant stand when you people call them cheats from across the world. So just stop doing that stupidity and focus on the problem at hand.

Sarosh

Forgot to mention that my hardware guys was talking about voltages too. He was saying something about 1.5V and 3.3V, but since the card had a power socket at its end, that did not matter.
I didnt understand much of this, but is there anyway I can make my asus m/b to run at 1.5V or 3.3V, and I can try out both alternatives.
I hope aopen reply soon, or else I will ask my hardware guy to assemble an proper 8x motherboard to test the card.
Thanks dudes,
Sarosh.

Sarosh

"He was saying something about 1.5V and 3.3V, but since the card had a power socket at its end, that did not matter"

That's shows how much (or how little) your hardware guys know.

- 8X AGP cards ARE backwards compatible with 4X AGP. That is not your problem.

- 8X AGP cards run at either 0.8v or 1.5v, but not 3.3v. You board has a 4X AGP slot so it's delivering 1.5v. AGP slot voltage is not your problem.

So it comes down to this....either the card is defective or the power supply being used is inadequate. I have no idea what PSU he has in the system he's using for testing the card, but I have absolutely no faith in iBall.

"Dude, call me all you want, I dont take it personally. But I cant stand by and let you guys abuse people you dont know. My hardware guys may not be the great experts that you are, but they are honest, hardworking people, and I cant stand when you people call them cheats from across the world. So just stop doing that stupidity and focus on the problem at hand."

If they were such good people, they'd have fixed or diagnosed the issue by now. The simple diagnostic step would have been to put an identical GPU based card in your machine, and see if the same thing happened.

They could have also put a multimeter to your PSU and checked it was putting out enough juice. But they OF COURSE didn't do that because that has the potential of exposing this PSU for what it really is. Either that, or they don't know how to test PSU's with multimeters.

They could have also put in a known good PSU with ample power for the card.

The problem is clearly either your PSU or the replacement video card. That's VERY easy to figure out. This isn't rocket science...

Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina!

www.redcross.org

Hey dudes,
My hardware guy usually does not charge me for any such services where I take the part to his shop, so I dont think it would be fare to ask him to start checking the psu on various psu's just for me.
Actually, it didnt occur to me to ask him to try out more combinations. I thought that the fact that the card displayed the exact same error at his place and at mine is proff enough that its a defect with the card.
Also, the dude turned off the monitor and turned it back on, and then we could see all sorts of scrambled stuff on the monitor. I guess this card is sending some weird signals to my monitor.

And even if he did, I have kind of lost my mood in all this. The good folks at DHL charged me Rs.5000/- (110$) as shipping charges, and I paid them happily thinking I would get a nice card back, just to find that it is not working.
I really dont think it is my psu, but even if it is, I dont want to spend the money to buy yet another psu now.

I could have asked the hardware dude to do all the stuff with the multimeter and stuff, but I actually didnt think about it. For the last several years the way we have been dealing is that he never charges me for anyservices, specially when I go to his place with my part. Even if I sometimes offer to pay his boys something, he does not seem eager about that too. And in return, I try to take up as little of his time without disturbing him much, because I know he is not going to charge me anyting at the end of it all, so I dont feel comfortable asking him to bring out his multimeters and try out various psu's and stuff.

The worts part of all this is that the good folks at DHL charged me Rs.5000/- as shipping charges. While I sent the card to taiwan I sent it by XPS courier, and they did it for me for Rs.850/- only, and delivered it in one day less.
So much for price v/s quality.

Sarosh

All I got to say is time is money. So I'll put it nicely and just say that your priorities are very different from mine. My system must work all the time, and if something goes wrong, it must be fixed quickly. You've made a lot of choices that don't achieve that, such as a refurbed video card, generic PSU's, etc. If you're fine with waiting forever for things to ship, taking your computer over to a technician and not allowing the proper steps to troubleshoot the issue, have fun for the next month getting your stuff to work right.

Personally, I think that's a complete waste of time, and since time is money, it's a complete waste of money, too.

Maybe this issue will get resolved this year for you, but at the rate you're going, who knows?

"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

Ha, yea,
You speak the truth, my friend.
I do use my computer to earn money, but if my computer goes dead for a day, I will enjoy the rest day rather than stress over it. Please dont misunderstand my attitudes towars my computer as dis-respect towards you guys. I know you are sincere and helpful bunch, and I appreciate it.

BTW, I hate to say this, but in all likely hood I am going to connect the 6800XT onto this same psu when I do get it. I really dont think the 6600GT not working has to do with my psu.
I remember that we had actually tried it on two cabinets there (but only one monitor) and they all showed the exact same symptoms.
I dont remember which PSU's they were, but they were not the same as mine.

Sarosh

"I really dont think the 6600GT not working has to do with my psu."

It may very well not. But it doesn't change the fact that cheap often means bad. Refurbed video cards die far more often than brand new ones. I personally wouldn't have bought a refurbed card, either. I wouldn't buy in effect a no-name PSU either.

As we've established already, this is an issue with the video card and/or PSU. Therefore, I'd have never been in this situation.

You can learn from that, or just discount it as you usually do.

"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

@ jboy,

"That has an ominous ring to it - is this something like "the customer is always right" (even when they are so not)?"

You got that right!

@ dsarosh,

"So just stop doing that stupidity and focus on the problem at hand."

You seem to have a unhealthy of miscontruing responses and for your own good, you might wanna tone things down before you get yourself banned for trying to defend yourself against something as trivial as a non-existing attack on your ego.

Back to the issue at hand, if care is not taken, you may end up spending multiple(s) of what that the card is actually worth. Like I said in response #7 - the card is more than likely a dud. If this comes to you as a shock, then take it as a hard lesson learnt in good stride and move on.

While it isn't desirable to get a defective card as a replacement for a returned board, it is not unusuall to have this happen - I went through this with my GeForce 6800 from Leadtek - got as many as 4 (yes four!) equally defective replacement cards before finally getting one that worked right out-of-the-box from Leadtek.

The whole ordeal if you are curious spanned 6 months and guess who ate most of the return shipping? (I did) except for the last two which was after I balked and adamantly refused to have it any other way.

My advice is to cut your losses, move on and take whatever you've lost & gained from this incidence as a worthwhile experience.

The internet is a series of tubes!

..........healthy habit of misconstruing!

The internet is a series of tubes!

"I went through this with my GeForce 6800 from Leadtek - got as many as 4 (yes four!) equally defective replacement cards before finally getting one that worked right out-of-the-box from Leadtek."

Why? Very simple...

Guess what they replace your refurbed card with 99% of the time?

Another refurbed card!

Do we see a pattern yet? :-)

"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

Thanks dudes,
And once again, very sorry if I sound rude. I really dont mean that at all. I just get emotional when you guys call me and my hardware guys so many names. I came here for help, but didnt expect to be called so many names. I can accept the names you call me, but I kind of get emotional when you call my hardware guys as cheats and say that they are just trying to make money from me.
I spent over an hour at his shop today, and that too at a very busy time when he was full of clients. But he didnt charge me a single Rupee.
I know other hardware dudes that would charge me Rs.400/- just to open up my cabinet and tell me that my card is dead.

I was not expecting anything great from aope anyway. I tried out the warrenty more as an experement than with any serious hope. I paid Rs.850/- to send the card, and was expecting to pay a maximum of Rs.2500/- to get the card back. But the DHL dudes handed me a hefty bill of Rs.5000/-
Thats the only real loss in all this.

I am getting an xfx 6800XT sometime soon anway. I just hope a brand new xfx will be much better than a refurbished aopen 6600GT.
The original refurbished 6600GT lasted me 8 months, I hope the new xfx card lasts me atleast 2 years.

BTW, I still have the card with me. If there is still anything I can try with it, do let me know. There are a bunch of jumper rod on one side, but no jumper plug in either of them. Can I do something in my bios? I tried running the card in agp2x mode too, but had the exact same problem.

Thanks a lot for all your responses, dudes. And if there is still anything I can try, please let me know.
And rest assured, I have no ego problems. You guys have called me enough names, and I have always responded with respect. The only problem is that I get emotional when you accuse people of beinig stupid and dishonest when the truth is the absolute opposite.
BTW, the aopen dude said he will consult with his engineer and get back to me ASAP, but havent heard from him today at all.

Sarosh

So 5850 + how much did you pay for the card? not to mention the time and frustration of your system not working...

Remember that the next time you're considering buying a refurbed anything.

I've already showed you why saving a little money on a no name PSU can end up costing you far more than what you save, although you didn't listen to that either...

"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

http://www.sarosh.8m.com/images/new6600gt/
Some pics of the card, if anyone is interested.

Sarosh

Did you get a refurbed digital camera, too? :-)

"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

haha,
Good humur dudes.
That was the only refurbished thing I ever got. I was searching for cards in the range of about 100$ back in october 2005.

My first pick was the brand new 6600 card, for about 100$.
But then I saw the 6600GT refurbished for 108$.
I didnt know what refurbished was back then, and I didnt even know how good the 6600GT was compared to the 6600.
I did some research, and found out that "refurbished parts are quite common in usa".
I also found out that the 6600GT is a much more better card than a 6600, and that proved very correct. The 6600GT was an amazinig card while it lasted, it really delivered more than I had hoped for. It gave me 8 months of good gaming memories.

I did some more finding out, and found that XFX is one of the better brands for graphics cards. I really hope I am not making a mistake here again. I hope xfx are much better than aopen.

I will agree with all you say, but I kind of fail to see the relationship between all this and my psu.
As you know well by now, I had overclocked the refurbished a lot, I ran it at something like 650MHz and 1100+Mhz for almost 2/3 weeks.
The card died after 8 months, but the psu I was using there still carried on without any problems at all.
Or maybe if I had connected the 6600Gt to a better psu it could have lasted me much more. I really dont know how to determine this stuff, I am just guessing from my general knowledge. I have no previous experience with this.

I've already showed you why saving a little money on a no name PSU can end up costing you far more than what you save, although you didn't listen to that either...

Not really sure what you mean here. The 300W psu was given to me in 2002, and back then I didnt even know what a psu was. I dont think I made any compromises on price back then. I remember paying 9500Rs for the Willamate 1.7GHz cpu. Thats 210$ for the 1.7GHz willamate core. As far as my memory goes back to 2002, I really dont remember telling my hardware guy to give me anything cheap at all. I was not looking to save money.

As for the current psu that I have, I think only time will tell. Its been working fine till now. And its almost cold to touch. Even when I have had my computer on all night, I just touched the psu to check the temperature, and the side metal casing was as cool as any metal would be in a room.

I think that 500W psu is working good so far. I will know more about it when I plug in the 6800 card into it.

As for the total expense:
Rs.5000 for the refurbed card, Rs.850 for shipping to taiwan, Rs.4942/- for getting the (dead) card back from taiwan, and Rs 2900/- for a new psu (I brought the new psu because you guys said my older 300W psu was not good enough for the 6600GT, or else my computer was runniing perfectly fine on the 300W psu).
So thats a total of Rs13962/- for 8 months of gaming. Thats an average of about 40$ per month I have been spending ever since I got the 6600GT.

Sarosh

Dudes,
Really hope I have not sounded rude again.
I have much respect for all you guys here in all my posts.
Over the last few months its been so confusing, I dont even know what you guys think is rude or what is not.

Sarosh

I've explained this before, but the majority of boards/cards that are sold as "refurbed" are nothing more than customer returns. It doesn't necessarily mean the card was defective, then repaired & resold at a lower price...usually it goes something like this:

A person owns a low end Dell & wants to get into gaming. His friend tells him a 6600GT is a decent moderately priced gaming card, so he buys one from newegg. He gets it & immediately opens the box, then opens the PC case to find that he has nothing but PCI slots...so he returns the card & newegg resells it at a discount as an "open box" item (they no longer use the term "refurbished").

Another possibility is that the person gets the card & installs it, but because of his inadequate PSU, the card performs poorly. Rather than buying a new PSU, he returns the card & it's then resold as "open box".

As for the shipping costs, I don't know how it's done in India, but the US Mail only charges a few bucks to ship a card & private shippers like UPS or FEDEX are comparable in price. Personally, I would have refused shipment & I don't understand why you didn't do just that? Why would you pay $100+ shipping to get a $108 card back?? That makes no friggin sense whatsoever!! I hope you plan on writing AOpen to complain...not only about the defective replacement card (if that is what it turns out to be) but about the ridiculous return shipping charge. Return shipping is supposed to be FREE!!

46.595 Rupees = $1 US

"So thats a total of Rs13962/- for 8 months of gaming. Thats an average of about 40$ per month I have been spending ever since I got the 6600GT"

Total of $294 wasted!

"the majority of boards/cards that are sold as "refurbed" are nothing more than customer returns."

I don't know if I agree with that. It's very hit and miss. Some are as you're saying, but some are truly refurbished. It depends upon where you're getting the card from, how they classify it, etc.

Which brings me to my point of you just simply can't know, and with true refurbs, there's a much higher chance of more problems than with brand new cards.

Personally, I don't take the risk unless the component is not critical for my system to function. Granted, that's a personal decision, but it must be said that buying refurbs is higher risk.

"How many squirrels had to die to make you look fly?!"

I know jam.
When they told me the shipping cost on the phone I was stunned for a few seconds.

I did send an email to the aopen dude about the high shipping cost. His first reaction was that he didnt belive that I paid for it.
He said something like "if we send the same card again by normal post it will cost less, will you accept it".

I made a rush decision and decided to pay for the card anyway. I was eager to have something better than the fx 5200.
Anyway, I think after this experience I will even buy graphics cards from my hardware dude. Atleast I wont spend so much on warrenty. The XFX retailer said that any problems with the XFX card would be sorted out in 21 days, and I am pretty sure it will not cost so much.
I am loosing money left and right, but that is the end of it now. My computers stays the same for many years to come now. If the 6800XT works, thats great, or I will use the mighty fx 5200 for a few more years.

This is one reason I so much prefer buying stuff from my hardware dudes. Things are so simple with them. I dont even need to pay in advance, I can try the part out for a few days and only pay him if satisfied.
Although graphics cards cost half online than they do locally, I think my next card will be purchased from my old timer hardware dude anyway.

The new pcie 7600GS cards are pretty good, and very affordable at around 7000Rs, and said to perform really well.
Its good to know that we are having good, economical graphics cards for the Indian market.

I am trying not to think of all the money I spent, rather I am trying to remember the 8 months of gaming, which were a real good experience on the 6600GT.

I just hope the xfx card delivers soemthing good, and does not create another big mess for me.
Although, its good to see that despite having two failed agp cards from aopen, the rest of my computer is fine. So atleast plugging in a a faulty card does not harm the system.

Sarosh

I kind of have to agree with heropsycho2177 above. I am staying away from from anything refurbished. That was the first, and will surely be the last refurbished part I ever buy.

This whole experience also makes me wonder about the whole process of warrenty. For the past 10 years I have had things very simple for me. I can just take the part to my hardware guy and collect a replacement. And most of the time I have done that it has been for old parts that have expired from old age rather than anything else.

I remember when my 500VA ups went dead, he first tried to recharge the battery, or even replace just the battery. But that was a made in taiwan brand whose battries were not available. So I purchased the ups he recommended, and he said when that ups gets about 4 years old, we can just recharge the battery for about Rs500/- rather than buy a whole new usp.

Really makes things much simpler when we have a co-operative hardware dude, rather than send stuff to taiwan and wait so long and then pay money for dead parts.

Sarosh

"I did send an email to the aopen dude about the high shipping cost. His first reaction was that he didnt belive that I paid for it"

LOL! Paying $100+ for the return of the card was foolish. Maybe things are done differently in your country, but in the US, you only pay the shipping cost one way...that is when you return the item to the manufacturer (or retailer). They ship the replacement back to you at no charge.

I have returned one video card (Asus), one motherboard (Shuttle), one thumb drive (Lexar), & numerous sticks of RAM (Kingston, PNY, Spectek) & ALL of these manufacturer's have shipped back the replacements for free.

I even posted a "tribute" to ASUS for how well they took care of me:

http://www.computing.net/hardware/wwwboard/forum/33113.html

I've gone as far as contacting the Better Business Bureau & California State Attorney General's Office on one online retailer that tried to rip me off. They have since gone out of business (not because of me...lol)

"I made a rush decision and decided to pay for the card anyway. I was eager to have something better than the fx 5200"

It seems that many of your decisions are made in haste, with little thought or research into what you're doing or why.

"I am loosing money left and right...."

Yup...& you have no one to blame but yourself.

"Really makes things much simpler when we have a co-operative hardware dude, rather than send stuff to taiwan and wait so long and then pay money for dead parts"

You're still not 100% sure you have a dead part. You need to test a different video card (a comparable one that requires the PSU plug-in) with your iBall PSU...it simply may not be able to handle a power hungry card. You also need to test the new 6600GT in a system with a decent PSU. Let me ask you this, when you 1st boot up with the new card installed, does the POST screen come up OK or is it scrambled? or doesn't it come up at all?

Here's an interesting quote from X-bit Labs, taken from an article they did on video card power consumption:

"New graphics cards on NVIDIA’s GPUs are misbalanced as concerns power consumption. The most powerful cards put a heavy burden on the +12v power rail, and this is the real reason – not the total power consumption of the device! – why you must ensure your PSU can stand such a strain before purchasing the card."

I know you won't bother to read the article, but maybe someone else will find the information useful:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-vs-nv-power.html

heropsycho wrote:

"I've already showed you why saving a little money on a no name PSU can end up costing you far more than what you save, although you didn't listen to that either..."

dsarosh,

How is it that you can't understand the above statement? The 6600GT most likely fried because of your inadequate PSU ($108 lost). You paid $18 for the RMA shipping. Then you foolishly paid $106 to have the replacement shipped to you. AND you also paid $62 to "upgrade" your PSU, which may not have been an upgrade at all (the jury is still out on that). So far, this fiasco has cost you $294 & if you include the $140 +/- that you're paying for the 6800XT, you've laid out over $430! If you had listened "way back when", your original 6600GT would still be working & you'd still be enjoying "high end gaming" & all it would have cost you would have been the $108 for the card & $75-100 for a decent PSU. You would have saved yourself at least $100, not to mention the mental stress this ordeal has put you thru. And if you include the fact that the 6800XT purchase wouldn't have been necessary, you would have saved yourself close to $250!!

BTW, did you ever find out the the "E" means in the model number of your replacement card?

Oh yeah....about refurbished items...

My comments about customer returns were basically in reference to Newegg. Like I said, they no longer use the term "refurbished" & they explain what "Open Box" means. The items that are truly refurbished are now listed as "Recertified"...meaning that they were sent to the manufacturer, tested & repaired (if repair was necessary), & then resold at a lower cost.

My ordeal with Leadtek will not deter me from getting another refurbed component in the near or distant future, at least not until I suffer the same fate from almost every manufacturer out there.

Accepted the risk is indeed greater as compared to getting new components - it can be restrained to a certain degree if it's well calculated in advance & the buyer has a thought out plan B just in case. However, there are components that I will never buy refurbed but most PCB hassles, I can deal with, without loosing much of my sanity.

The internet is a series of tubes!

dsarosh,

How is it that you can't understand the above statement? The 6600GT most likely fried because of your inadequate PSU ($108 lost).

My dudes,
Unless a psu is antec or sparkle or any of the names you suggested, that psu is always going to be inadequate for you guys. I am not even trying to find a psu that can be adequate accordig to your standards. Anything but antec is inadequate for you guys. And if you were really passionate about me having a an adequate psu, you could have found the 10 mins to order the sparkle psu and ship it to me directly.
Anyway, I want to end this whole debate about psu for ever. The fact is that no matter what psu I buy, it will always be inadequate for you guys. And since none are willing to offer me any materialistic help in obtaining and adequate psu, I can safely say that all my psu in the past, present and future will all be inadequate - according to you.

In my opinion, all my psu's are just fine. I have tried to understand your arguments. If my 300W psu was inadequate, then how did it work for 8 months, even overclocked? If a psu is inadequate, the computer will refuse to start.

You think my 500W psu is inadequate and so my card is not coming on. But you also call my 300W psu inadequate, and it worked for 8 long months of heavey use. I fail to understand any logic here.

If you guys were so extremely certain that my 300W psu is so crappy and inadequate, then what is your explanation for my 6600GT working for 8 months, that too over clocked. And even after the card died, the 300W psu still was working.

In my opinion, if a 300W psu is inadequate, it will refuse to run my 6600GT even a single time, it will not run it for 8 months without problem and then suddenly one evening decide to become inadequate.

My older 300W psu was inadequate, and my current 500W psu too is inadequate, so lets leave that whole discussion.
What I can tell you is that I will plug in the xfx card into this very inadequate psu and I will use it for many years to come.

Sarosh

Dudes,
For the last few weeks/months you guys have been using the excuse of my psu to make lot of fun of me. You have somehow assumed that I am intentionally asking my hardware guy to give me cheap (low priced) psu. I really have absolutely no idea how you guys can come to some conclusions.

Let me explain to you how I look at this whole psu situation:
1) My 300W psu was manufactured in april 2002
2) It did not comply to atxV2.0. I dont even know which version it complied with.
3) My hardware guyd definitely didnt say that I could plug in a powerful vedio card into this cpu.
4) This psu is not antec and it is not sparkle. So it is very obvious that this 4 year old 300W generic psu will not be able to handle the 6600GT, whose minimum requirements are 300W/350W good quality psu.
5) This psu was manufactured by a no-name brand, so it was not really expected for it to handle any graphics card properly.

Having said all the above, I still ran the overclocked 6600GT for 8 long months, without any problem.
The situation with the 300W psu is something like: "YOU CANT BLAME A 50CC, 10 year old MOPED IF IT CANT TAKE THE WEIGHT OF 2 FAT DUDES"

That psu was not expected to handle the 6600GT, but it still handled the 6600GT for 8 months anyway. You guys keep repeating the same thing over and over and over again and I am really not understanding anything you say. The only conclusion I can draw is that you dudes just want to make fun of me or embarass me on this whole excuse of the psu.

Sarosh

"The only conclusion I can draw is that you dudes just want to make fun of me or embarass me on this whole excuse of the psu"

You are 100% wrong! We are trying to help you & have been trying to help you for many months. But you prefer to argue rather than taking the time to read some of the websites we've supplied. You claim to be an engineer so you should have the mental capacity to understand the math involved in calculating volatge, amperage & wattage requirements, yet you refuse to do so. You are obsessed with the fact that your 300W PSU handled your 6600GT for 8 months & overlook the fact that your card fried most liekly because of the unstable voltage/amperage on the +12v rail. You yourself said your PSU was out of the 5% voltage tolerance, but that still didn't convince you that the PSU was "flakey". I don't know why the video card fried & not the PSU...I think it was just dumb luck. And the reason you didn't have problems prior to that was because you weren't overstressing the +12v rail...1st you were running onboard video, then you got an FX5200, neither of which require the PSU plug-in. You also upgraded your CPU to a 2.53GHz P4...your CPU draws ALL it's power from the +12v, so when you take the CPU & 6600GT into account & add the fact that your PSU only had 10A on the +12v rail, you had a recipe for disaster. Once again, I have no idea why the card fried & not the PSU, but I'm willing to go out on a limb & say the PSU was to blame for the card's death. You fail to realize this, you refuse to accept it, you are obsessed with the fact that the word "crap" was used or that many of us feel that your hardware guy is no where near as knowledgeable as you think....these are things we have no control over. as the old saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"...we can supply you with all the reputable hardware websites that explain in detail the inner workings of a PSU, what PSUs are recommended, what the amperage requirements are for your PC, the design specs for the various PSU ATX standards, etc...but we can't make you read them. As a matter of fact, you have REFUSED to read them because you say you don't have the time! But you can spend hours each day arguing about why your PSU is adequate instead of reading numerous sites that will explain why it's not.

Just do whatever the hell it is you wanna do. Keep spending your money needlessly, we don't care...it's your money, you can spend anyway you damn well please. If it makes sense to spend your money the way you do, that's all on you. I know if it was me, I would have done some research on PSUs rather than accepting anyone's word for it, then I would have found a way to get a decent/adequate one for my needs & this whole mess would have been settled 8 months ago. But that's just me......

"And if you were really passionate about me having a an adequate psu, you could have found the 10 mins to order the sparkle psu and ship it to me directly."

LOL! Umm, no! You were given advice on what to buy. FREE advice. Now you're complaining we won't order a PSU for you?!

ROFL, that's rich! In all my time on this forum, I've NEVER seen someone criticize people on this forum because they won't order hardware for them. Would you like us to fly over to India and replace it for you as well?! Maybe we could wipe your butt for you too while we're over there...

"MY GOD, BARBIE! HOW DO YOU PUT YOUR BRA AND PANTIES ON IN THE MORNING, ALL BY YOURSELF?!"

"That psu was not expected to handle the 6600GT, but it still handled the 6600GT for 8 months anyway."

It sure did, all the way to the card's demise! ROFL...

"For the last few weeks/months you guys have been using the excuse of my psu to make lot of fun of me."

Dude, your PSU is the least of your worries. It's not your PSU that's the problem; it's that you flat out refuse to face any facts that show conclusively you have made repeatedly BAD decisions about your hardware purchases.

For example.

A. You refused to change the 300W originally despite being given a boatload of links showing it wasn't enough for your hardware, never mind the name brand. Even a 300W Antec wouldn't have been enough.
B. Even after the video card died, (duh!!!) you refused to even acknowledge the possibility the 300W PSU was related.
C. You were given objective PSU reviews that demonstrated why PSU's like Antec are better and very necessary. You refused to read them.
D. You paid more for the replacement video card was worth in shipping. That was flatout moronic.
E. You ordered a 6800XT after being told repeatedly it was barely any better at all than what you had.
F. You claim that you don't have time to read any links we provide you. Yet you spend hours posting here every week.
G. You refuse to acknowledge the possibility your new PSU that's generic may not be adequate for the video card, despite all the information given to you, and despite your system showing symptoms that very well may be true. You then spent hours with your computer guy, and didn't even take the proper steps to rule it out. Even had it been an Antec PSU, I'd have still checked the PSU, but you flat out refuse to do it.
H. You reformatted your hard drive in an attempt to fix the replacement card, despite being told repeatedly thee's NO WAY your OS install was related.
I. You repeatedly don't listen to us, insult us, and keep coming back for advice you NEVER USE!!!

It's your utter lack of reason, ignorance, and stubborness that have resulted in us having to deal with you in this fashion.

SO...since you're so mad at us because we're such horrible people, STOP POSTING! lol...

Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina!

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My dudes,
You are getting it wrong once again.
I trusted jam's 350W sparkle psu over my hardware guys 500W psu. I trust all your judgements and advice. I never disputed above.
But someone above made a quick, witty comment that I am trying to save money on my psu??? How can these smart dudes come to such absurd conclusions?
I dont save money on anything, my dudes. I dont buy anything cheap.
How could he go back in the past, right upto 2002 and say that I have intentionally told my hardware guy to give me a cheap (lower costing) psu? That is just some absurdity that I truely dont understand.

And I did take all the blame for the 300W psu. I knew it was old, I knew it was not from a reputable brand. But it ran my 6600GT fine, and so I didnt think the psu was an issue. I admit that is my fault, no problems with that.

As for my current 500W psu, I am willing to take the risk just to find out. As I said, I will plug my new xfx card into it, and see how long it will last. If it blows up my new card in less than a year, then I will join your arguments about psu and I too will claim that anything other than antec is simply inadequate.
But right now, I simply cant comment on the 500W psu, it is barely weeks old, and is working fine thus far.

I have never had any problems like this before. Thats why I am more inclined to believe that the prolem is more because of the refurbished part than with anything else. After this whole experience with AOpen, I am going to buy my next vedio card locally rather than online. And I hope that will be some years from now.

Dudes, I dont know why you keep misunderstanding me. I thought I was being very polite in all my replies. Then one smart guys accuses me of trying to save money on my psu? Does the smart dude really believe that I have told my hard ware guy to intentionally give me a cheap low priced psu? That was back in 2002, and I dont remember much too. How can he come to such conclusions? And you have been making such absurd conclusions for months now.

As for you asking me to read website, I told you that was only my preference. I did used to read websites. But reading websites leads me to nothing to temptations, because I am not going to read how great a product is on a website and go and buy it. I spend way too much money on my computer anyway (as you know by now).
But let me tell you what happened at my hardware guys place. First we tried the card on a couple of cabinets. It didnt work, and we were talking about it, when another dude named Dextor came in, and he too was another hardware dude from the neighbourhood. He decided to try out my card too, and it showed the exact same problem again. Then he suggested that we try it on another (newer) motherboard. He said he had a DFI motherboard, but still wanted to make sure if the DFI motherboard had 8x or 4x agp. And guess what he did? He opened up yahoo and searched for it. He also opened up google and searched for details about my card.
I know that for most hardware dudes in the business, websites are the fastest and quickest way to keep updated and to learn a lot.
But as for me, I cant simply read a great review on a website and go out and buy that expensive part. I already had a policy in place to really totally cut down spending on my computer. And now after this experience, I really have to try and spend as little as possible on my computer. So I cant really read websites and buy the expensive parts, although I know the websites are correct.

You guys are always misunderstaning me, I dont know what to do about it. I reply back politely and with respect, and then one smart guy goes back into the past of 2002 and comes to the conclusion that I have intentionally told my hardware guy to give me a cheap psu because I want to save money.
If that happened one time it was fine, but I have been accused of such aburdity for months now.

Sarosh

You were told the Antec PSU is the best PSU in India by your hardware guy. You chose the iBall, anyway. You intentionally chose the cheaper PSU.

That is all.

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www.redcross.org

Thats because these so called cheap psu's really work out well.
There are some gamers here who also use such 500W psu, such as zebronices, vip, etc. Antec is the best, but many people here do plug in their vedio cards to non-antec psu's too, and they dont complain.

Anyway, this will be a good experement. As I said, I think its more than a coincidence that the only problem I am having in my computer for years now is related to a refurbished part. If I have any such problems with the new xfx card on this psu, then I will join your gang and bang all the newbies for using all crappy psu's for power ful cards.
I just cant come to a decisive conclusion now. May be it will cost me another vedio card to finally see the light.

BTW, my friend has received the xfx card at her place, but I will only be getting it in september. She was saying something about having to remove the serial number sticker and post it back to them for some rebate... no idea what that is all about.
I just go to my h/w dude and pick up stuff. Buying online is no way as simple as buying locally, but I bet you may disagree.

Sarosh

Hey dsarosh,

Here are a few clips taken from an article titled, "Price an Issue, Not Power Supply". It was posted on your favorite Indian site, TECHTREE.COM, over a year ago. It's an interview with the Antec Asia Marketing guy...he makes some interesting comments:

"Shunmugavel Yogan, Asia Marketing Coordinator, Antec, says for majority of Indian consumers price is a bigger issue than good power supplies or low noise."

"Whether a first time consumer or not, anyone who is going to purchase a computer must be conscious of their power supply requirements.

It's one of the most important components in your computer. Nothing will work without it, and yet it doesn't receive a fraction of the attention it deserves. Why is the power supply so important? The reason is simple: every other component in the PC depends on stable power for trouble-free operation. Even relatively slight deviations in voltage can lead to crashes and component failures, a fact many users are still unaware of. When a PC is unstable, the first things they suspect as the cause are overly-aggressive memory timings, an overheated graphics card or an overclocked CPU. Very rarely does the power supply unit come under scrutiny, despite its being one of the most problem-prone components.

Due to the high speed, increased power demands and the subsequent heat generated by components like a new CPU and AGP card, it is critical that clean and stable power be supplied to the components. By compromising on the cost of the power supplies, the consumer is in fact jeopardizing the performance as well as the safety of the whole computer. It is therefore very important to pay attention to the power requirements, be it a first time consumer or not."

"The Indian consumer has not woken up to the need for low noise computing. Actually, the majority of the Indian consumer has not yet woken to the fact that they need good power supplies. It will, in my opinion, still take a while before the low noise computing becomes an issue. For the majority of the consumers the price still is a bigger issue than higher noise."

http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=57521&cat_id=663

I think what he calls "misunderstanding" is we won't buy the BS he's shovelling.

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Hi my dude jam,
I am in total agreement. Most people dont even know what a PSU is. I know my neighbours whose computer used to hang often, but I didnt even try explaining to them the reason, because it was a company computer and the kids were playing games on it. The parents were least interested.
I also remember while trying to teach my dad how to use the mouse. When I would tell him to right click, then he would take his right finger and click the same left mouse button. He is a PhD professore btw, so dont pass judgements on his intellegence now.

That article may be a bit old, the attitude of Indian consumers have changed a lot. You can visit any Indian forum and ask them their opinions about power supplies. They are more determined that you guys about using nothing but antec.

Reading the above article does ring a bell, specially the words
"Even relatively slight deviations in voltage can lead to crashes and component failures".

I really dont know if you guys are going to believe me, or most likely you will think I am making an absurd statement again.
But I definitely remember both my hardware guys telling the exact same thing. I remember them telling my dad about it, because at that time I really didnt know what the big fuss about electricity was. When I got my first comp, sometime in 1996, it was a pentium 3 450Mhz. The hardware dude set it up in our house, but didnt connect it. He insisted that we must have a proper earthing. He even advised not to turn on the comp unless we do an earthing. We were new then and got scared, and so we got an electrician to do the earthing. There is an extra blue wire which is connected into the wall socket in my plug, and the other end goes out of my window into a 2 foot deep pit in which he placed a copper plate and lot of salt.
So once again I have to say that my hardware dudes are very aware of the importance of good power supply. They are also aware of the importance of good earthing. I also remember when I purchased my P4 1.7GHz, he had talked to me a lot about the importance of the power supply and "stable voltage". I remember him saying clearly that even the slightest changes in voltage can blow up the motherboard.
He was aware of the importance of the PSU, and he picked one accordingly. And he didnt dissapoint. The psu he picked for me is still working and handled the GT for.....
Back in 2002 I was not even a gamer, but he still gave me a psu that handled the GT for...
That article does put things into prespective, but I have to conclude that my hardware guy is only more particular about the importance of voltages.

As for my current psu, I had told my hardware dude that I will be plugging in a card into this psu. He seemed very confident and told me that he is using the same psu with a 7600pcie card for 12+ hours a day, not to mention the HDs and optical drives.
My hardware guy exceeded my expectations with the 300W psu, and it is left to be seen what happens with the 500W psu.

Sarosh

I think what he calls "misunderstanding" is we won't buy the BS he's shovelling.

What are you talking about, my dude?????
Whatever I say here is the absolute truth, I am not speaking a single word of lies.
You can dismiss my opinions, but all the facts I say are absolute truth.

Sarosh

Hey my jam,
Just wanted to comment humourously that that is only the second time I have visited techtree.com.
I visit www.techenclave.com little more often.
Its not my favourite site at all. My favourite site would be www.uchess.com
Check out my profile there.
BTW, my h/w dude had shown me the pic of the black antec cabinet on his computer, and it cost Rs.5000/-.
I do know some dudes here too who will buy it. I know a 15 year old dude who is a big amd fan, and he assembles computers and stuff. They are all big antec fans, no doubt about it.
As for me, I am still waiting for a proper excuse to become an antec fan. The non-antec psu's have not dissapointed me at all in the past.

Sarosh