i don't look at it as "BLOWING IT" i want the best graphics performance currently aviliable,the money side of things is not a problem,so why not? you say to spend 1/4 of the money and my machine actually works,what's you specs,and what do you mean your machine actually works,why wouldn't my machine work??? AMD FX 57 OC'D 3.2GHZ ASUS P5RD2-MVPDELUXE 2GIG CORSAIR XMS MAXTOR MAXLINE II 250NCQ CROSSFIRE 1800XTS

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Athlon 64 Venice 3000 OC'ed 2.5GHz DFI LanParty NForce4 Ultra-D 1024GB Mushkin PC3500 CAS2 (2x512M) evga Nvidia 6600GT PCI-e Hitachi 250gig SATA Dude, it is blowing your money. If you want the best performance regardless of how much money, by your own admission, you are wasting money and you don't care. It's your money, so obviously do what you want with it. However, don't pretend it's reasonable to drop $1200 on video cards. It's as reasonable as buying a Ferrari. I mean my system is rock solid stable. ATI has yet to make a rock solid chipset for a motherboard. Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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i understand you point here heropsyhco,but again,the reason i'am getting this new rig cause i want the very best performance,i know that in a few months time there'll be a new graphics card that'll beat the 1800xt,and a new processer that'll beat the fx57,when this happens,i'll just upgrade again,i already have a quicker system than the one you stated,my current rig is: ATHLON 64 NEWCASTLE 3500 OCE'D 2.4 ABIT AV8 PRO 3RD EYE 1024MB KINGMAX SUPERRAM PC3500 CAS 2.5 CONNECT 3D X800 PRO MODDED -X850XT MAXTOR MAXLINE II 250GB NCQ SOUND BLASTER AUIDGY 2 i think its cause i just like to have the best hardware currently avilaible,and seeing as i don't have much else to spend my money(army provides room,food etc) on its not a problem spending so much,plus if u just spent the last 6months in iraq take it from me,you'd feel like treating yourself!!,can't belive they have been delayed though!!!guess i have to wait a little longer... thanks for the replies ~david p's if anyone's looking to by a new rig i'am selling my rig on ebay in thw next few weeks,all the above plus Logitech Z-5500 THX® Certified 5.1 speakers, logitech keyboard and opitcal mouse,and a L.G flatron 17inch monitor,if anyones intrested email me @ david.wilkins60@ntlworld.com ,thanks again AMD FX 57 OC'D 3.2GHZ ASUS P5RD2-MVPDELUXE 2GIG CORSAIR XMS MAXTOR MAXLINE II 250NCQ CROSSFIRE 1800XTS

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"i already have a quicker system than the one you stated" That's not helping your case that this purchase of yours isn't a waste of money. "i don't have much else to spend my money(army provides room,food etc) on" Sure you do: 1. Investment 2. Retirement fund 3. College after the army 4. Money to buy a house when you get out 5. Rainy day emergency money 6. Girls 7. Charitiable donations 8. Girls 9. Downpayment for a car 10. Girls Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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man,i'am not saying i'am a god damn geek who says in my room all day!!!!!!i take it your from U.S.A? 1. Investment:i have a savings account,lots of money in there 2. Retirement fund:22 years service, awesome pension 3. College after the army:army pays for course i want to go on 4. Money to buy a house when you get out:really have a house 5. Rainy day emergency money:saving account again,and life insurance 6. Girls:been in a relationship for last 7 years 7. Charitiable donations:army benovlent fund 8. girls:above 9. Downpayment for a car: have a car ,toyota celica 10. Girls:above hmm,so you see,my lifes pretty much sorted,kinda gets to me that everytime someone post asking about hardware,someone goes on about how its not worth it!!,these people are using inferior rigs,and seeing as my question was about the 1800xt,i don't see how some people can comment on it saying its not worth it,when all hey have is say a 9550,wihch last time i check,would have trouble playing any of todays games of medium-low settings. AMD FX 57 OC'D 3.2GHZ ASUS P5RD2-MVPDELUXE 2GIG CORSAIR XMS MAXTOR MAXLINE II 250NCQ CROSSFIRE 1800XTS

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"i understand you point here heropsyhco,but again,the reason i'am getting this new rig cause i want the very best performance,i know that in a few months time there'll be a new graphics card that'll beat the 1800xt,and a new processer that'll beat the fx57,when this happens,i'll just upgrade again,i already have a quicker system than the one you stated,my current rig is: ATHLON 64 NEWCASTLE 3500 OCE'D 2.4 ABIT AV8 PRO 3RD EYE 1024MB KINGMAX SUPERRAM PC3500 CAS 2.5 CONNECT 3D X800 PRO MODDED -X850XT MAXTOR MAXLINE II 250GB NCQ SOUND BLASTER AUIDGY 2" http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26818 I would like to see you beat that score since you claim you want the ultimate rig out there.... Otherwise, your claim to have the ultimate rig does not exist... TMP-Man Asus A7V classic rev 1.05 Athlon XP 2100+ @ 101x20 1.75v 768MB PC133 RAM @ 134Mhz 2-2-2 40GB 5400RPM + 120GB 7200RPM HD 128MB Geforce FX5200 128bit

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Just because Jam is using a 9550, it doesn't make his point invalid. It's a waste of money, but it's your money. Go buy whatever and just ignore it. I'm not sure why you're getting upset. If what you say is true, you have more money than god, so have at it. "man,i'am not saying i'am a god damn geek who says in my room all day!!!!!!" For the money you're spending, one might argue you should be a geek such as that to justify the amount of money you're spending. :-) Sorta like the father in Ferris Bueller who bought the Ferrari only to keep it in his garage.... Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. www.redcross.org

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Hey solierboy, I do have DOOM3 (amongst other games) & it played quite well with my current system. I don't give a crap if I don't see every minute detail. You'd be surprised at what a low end system like I mine can do. I don't consider myself a gamer, but even if I was, I still wouldn't pay $600 for a video card, let alone two of them...& it's not because I can't afford it. ASUS A7N8X-X Athlon XP 1800+ 8.5 x 200MHz 1024MB PC3200 2.5-3-3-7 Asus A9550GE/TD 128MB WinME/WinXP Pro SP2

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Curious, and certanly not to start anyting, I assume you asked about the AMD FX57 since you didn't currently own one. Why does your signature at the bottom of all your posts show the processor along with 2 gig's of RAM you don't "currently" own. Same goes for the video card you're asking about which isn't out? The reason why I ask is beacause, USUALY people put their "Current" rigs and not their "dream" rigs. The funny part is that (and if i'm still right to assume you don't own the AMD FX57) you already overclocked it to 3.2 when (I hope i'm right) it's actualy a 2.6Ghz? Thought I should point that out. Bad move? heh Abit AN8 Socket 939 AMD64 3000+ -1.8Ghz Corsair 1Gig 2x512 MSI Radeon x800 PCI-E 390&700@441&990 Seagate 160Gig SATA Antec TrueControle 2.0 550 Watts

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my signature is the pc i will have when i get home,soz if i confused anyone,and,i'am also sorry if i have offened anyone(jam),i didn't mean to,i guess i'am not thinking right, just exicted about coming home i guess,have canceled my pre-orders for 2x1800xt,as for TMP MAN:i haven't claimed i "HAVE" the ulimate rig,said i wanted 1,i know that i'll never the "ULIMATE" rig,just just it as a figure of speech.again sorry if i offened anyone. AMD FX 57 OC'D 3.2GHZ ASUS P5RD2-MVPDELUXE 2GIG CORSAIR XMS MAXTOR MAXLINE II 250NCQ CROSSFIRE 1800XTS

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Man go for it, i'm in the same boat as you when it comes to gaming. It really comes down to what you are willing to settle for, some people will settle for "decent" graphics/performance other people will settle for whatever they can get, and some people just want it to play the way it is supposed to play. I feel that it is crazy for someone to sacrifice their gaming experience for the sake of saving a few dollars. Then again some people aren't that into it. What im sick of hearing is people being rubbished for asking about high end components/systems. If you guys think you are going to get the same gaming experience on your system, as SoLdIeRbOy will on he's, you are mistaken. Already the newest games are pushing the last generation of cards, what's going to come out next week? At least SoLdIeRbOy wont have to worry about that.

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"If you guys think you are going to get the same gaming experience on your system, as SoLdIeRbOy will on he's, you are mistaken." I'm saying he's gonna have a better gaming experience on his than mine. I'm also saying he could spend half the money and have no noticeable degradation in his experience, or at the very least degradation so slight that it doesn't reduce the "gaming experience". There's how much performance you want to get vs. the money you want to spend, but then you get to the point you're spending gobs for performance differences you humanly can't see, but only see in benchmark numbers. When you start spending that kind of money, I'm sorry, but in my opinion, that's totally rediculous. Sorry you get sick of people trying to save others' money. Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. www.redcross.org

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thanks houston!!,needed some help there AMD FX 57 OC'D 3.2GHZ ASUS P5RD2-MVPDELUXE 2GIG CORSAIR XMS MAXTOR MAXLINE II 250NCQ CROSSFIRE 1800XTS

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"I'm also saying he could spend half the money and have no noticeable degradation in his experience, or at the very least degradation so slight that it doesn't reduce the "gaming experience"." That maybe true for existing games such as HL2 - Where the difference between an X850 XT and an X1800 may be only in benchmark numbers, but what about next week? or the week after that? If you keep buying cards that are "just enough" to play a game, how is that saving money? Using that logic if you want the high performance that some of us do you need to keep upgrading. Whereas i doubt there will be too many games coming out in the next year or two that SoldierBoys 2 x X1800's wont be able to play on the highest settings. So what im getting at is, this weeks overkill is next weeks recommended settings.

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"Where the difference between an X850 XT and an X1800 may be only in benchmark numbers, but what about next week? or the week after that?" Are you suggesting an X850XT won't be able to play games well that are coming out next week?! Hey, the X1800 won't be able to play games from three years from now well. Dang, I guess you should buy something better! "Using that logic if you want the high performance that some of us do you need to keep upgrading." BINGO!!! "Whereas i doubt there will be too many games coming out in the next year or two that SoldierBoys 2 x X1800's wont be able to play on the highest settings." Cost of 2 X1800's today? $1200. Cost of a graphics card today that plays everything at highest quality? $400. (I rounded up for argument's sake.) Cost of a card that will play games at the highest settings two years from now when you actually need it, and will be able to beat the 2 X1800's (is a $400 card today twice as fast as the $500 card of two years ago? YEP!)? $400. Realizing Hero just saved the guy $400 on graphics cards and still be able to play games at the highest settings for the next five years instead of four? Priceless! :-) Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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Pyscho dude, you need to chill out. Soldier boy, don't even listen to whatever these guys are saying. Different people have different priority in different point in their lives. If we use Pyscho analogy in our life, such as food for instance. Many of us dine out often at expensive restaurant daily when they can just eat Top Ramen to fill their stomach. Maybe when you buy a house, you spend a little more than you should for that extra fireplace, when a mobile home would do as well. The point is, we do what makes us happy. Soldierboy already told you guys that he can afford 2 1800xt cards, you just shut up and let the man have his cards. It may be a waste of money to Pyscho but not to Soldierboy well earned income. Just because Pyscho rather spend the extra $800 for his strip clubs doesn't mean soldieboy wants to do the same thing. I don't think these forums are meant for discussions of what constitute waste. You guys should offer him better alternative to make his rig faster for the price he can afford. Soldierboy, seems like you can spend a lot on a system; I always believe that a good system should be well rounded. You should consider a 74gb raptor drives for your operating system, and then 2 250gb SATA drive in RAID 0 configuration. Also, instead of the FX-57; you might consider the higher end AMD X2. As for you Pyscho, I assume you have been eating Top Ramen and living in you mobile home with your ati deluxe graphics card. It seems like you saved a hell of alot; I hope you sent all your savings to the red cross (www.redcross.org).

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"I don't think these forums are meant for discussions of what constitute waste." Price/performance is a very important topic that should be discussed. YOU need to chill out. He doesn't have to take my advice, just as he doesn't have to listen to you, either. "Soldierboy already told you guys that he can afford 2 1800xt cards, you just shut up and let the man have his cards." He came to ask for our advice. He can be a man and do what he wants and not listen to us, too. If he really wants these cards, I'm not stopping him. And being able to afford something doesn't justify buying it. I can afford right now a $15,000 plasma television. Mmm, Pioneer Elite goodness. Am I buying it as much as I'd like it? NO! "If we use Pyscho analogy in our life, such as food for instance. Many of us dine out often at expensive restaurant daily when they can just eat Top Ramen to fill their stomach." Excuse me, but my video card recommendations are not the Ramen noodles of video cards out today. Even a $400 card can reasonably be justified, and no matter how you cut it, a $400 graphics card is not analogous to eating Ramen noodles. The better out to dinner analogy would be this: you like good quality beef. You could either go to a good steakhouse that makes a steak that you can barely if at all taste any difference between it or a fancy schmancy restaurant that costs three to six times as much. You can go to the fancy restaurant if you want; it's your money. But rationally speaking, the first restaurant is the smarter choice. Notice I did not say go eat at Taco Bell! Now, are you saying the above advice I gave *isn't* the more reasonable thing to do? That's the key here. He's spending WAAAAAAY more money for performance differences he cannot perceive, or even if it can, it doesn't actually improve his gaming experience, just as a good steakhouse steak tastes 99.999% to 100% as good as the fancy shcmancy restaurant. "You should consider a 74gb raptor drives for your operating system, and then 2 250gb SATA drive in RAID 0 configuration." The 74 gig raptors aren't much faster in actual performance than current gen SATA drives are these days. It's now for a gaming machine imperceptible. RAID0 does not help significantly in gaming. Why should he double his chances of catastrophic data loss due to hard drive failure by using RAID0 for minimal to no performance gains? "Also, instead of the FX-57; you might consider the higher end AMD X2." Not a single game is optimized for dual core currently. FX-57's crush any dual core in any game available today by margins exponentially more than he would see using Raptors or RAID0. "As for you Pyscho, I assume you have been eating Top Ramen and living in you mobile home with your ati deluxe graphics card." That's what happens when you assume. "I hope you sent all your savings to the red cross (www.redcross.org)." No, but I've donated significant amounts of money each for Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, the earthquake in Paskistan/India, as well as last year's tsunamis. Just as I won't apologize for saying two 1800xt's is a waste of money, I won't apologize for donating money myself and encouraging others to do so to charitable organizations. Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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Ok psychoboy, so far you have gloated about how much money you have and your great generosity. You don't have to not apologize for donating your wonderful money to the redcross, we didn't ask you to. But go ahead and not apologize and tell us some more about the Ferrari you can buy...but didn't. Your knowledge of RAID 0, and speed of the Raptor or the inferiority of the X2 versus the FX-57 processors doesn't impress anyone either. Any kid can regurgetate those figures. There are advantages and disadvantages to all configuration and serves only as alternatives. If you read soldierboy original post, he didn't ask you whether spending money on the 1800xt is a waste of money or not. He wanted to know why it was delayed (hence the thread title) and whether the x2 or the FX is a better choice. You just asserted your opinion where it doesn't belong. You tell us that you merely discuss price/performance, lets take a look at your post: "Considering 512M cards do no good over 256M cards without SLI, why does it matter?" Where do you get this statistics? The card hasn't even come out yet and you already assume that "it do no good". I like the extensive testing you just did: cards speed nvidia 7800gtx --- good nvidia 6800 --- ok 1800xl --- alright 1800xt 512mb --- it do no good "FX-57 is a better gaming CPU." I give you credit for this one, though it's no great secret. The X2 might not be as fast as the FX-57 in gaming but would rock at multi-tasking. It really depends on what you want. "They're probably delayed due to quality control issues. Why you're gonna spend big money on an unproven product is beyond me. I'd rather spend 1/4 of the money and my machine actually works." Your machine works...that's great...work for what. Internet surfing and online donation to the redcross. Have you even played or use a fast machine as Soldierboy described? If you didn't...then don't even tell him that he will never miss the preceive differences. Just like musician would never be satisfy with a standard acoustic in a headphone, needing a more expensive unit. To me, an expensive headphone would be a waste of money because I am not a musician. You...pyschoboy are not a gamer. All I can say is, to each its own.

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"Ok psychoboy, so far you have gloated about how much money you have and your great generosity." You know why I have that money and can donate so generously? I'll give you a hint: I don't do things like drop $1200 on graphics cards! It's not gloating; it's called fiscal responsibility! "Your knowledge of RAID 0, and speed of the Raptor or the inferiority of the X2 versus the FX-57 processors doesn't impress anyone either. Any kid can regurgetate those figures." How about regurgitating facts that show how much RAID0, Raptors, and X2 processors are better for gaming? "Where do you get this statistics?" http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050524/vga_charts-06.html Notice the X800XL 256M and 512M cards score about the same with the 256M actually on top until you run 1600x1200 8x AA/AF, which then you only gain 4fps. Logically, that number would be less when using 2x512M cards for a gig of video memory since 512M of video memory is barely utilized if at all. "Your machine works...that's great...work for what. Internet surfing and online donation to the redcross." If you think my computer can only do those things, you need to pull your head out of the sand. Last I checked, my system runs every game out there well, and I didn't clear my bank account to build it. I am not in a competition to make my system run better than everyone else's. Like I said, that's stupid. I'm looking to play the games I want to play at the image quality and speed that gives me a good gaming experience. No, it doesn't blow the barn doors off some other people's rigs, but I guarantee you my system runs every game out there well. "Have you even played or use a fast machine as Soldierboy described?" I'm a system builder for extra money on the side. I know how fast systems I've built run games at various image quality settings. I know you can run with high resolutions with jacked IQ settings at 60fps+ without dropping $1200 on graphics cards. If you question that, check out benchmark numbers on the net. The only debatable game is FEAR, and that's only if you think 4xAA/8xAF at resolutions over 1024x768 is necessary and affect your gaming experience. As resolution increases, the need for higher AA and AF are increasingly diminished. "You...pyschoboy are not a gamer." LOL...was that supposed to hurt my feelings? In either case, you managed to prove nothing I said wrong with that statement. "I give you credit for this one, though it's no great secret." Then why did you suggest the X2 for a gaming machine? Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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I cant wait 4 the release of the x1800xt's got an x1800xl and i love it 512 ring bus u figure it out.I did a massive upgrade,and it was well worth it.

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"How about regurgitating facts that show how much RAID0, Raptors, and X2 processors are better for gaming?" Did I say it was good for gaming. No. Read the damm post. You ignore the content and only pushes your own opinion as I pointed out with soldierboy original post and now mine. Go back and read it now. I specifically stated that, I liked a well rounded system. Such a configuration would be good for multimedia editing which more and more people are getting into now a days. As for your scientific inference from the 800xl to the 1800 series. Can you give me a link for the review of the 1800xt 256mb versus 512mb? I didn't think so. "It do no good" to assume and infer. In all your posts, you keep mention that your rig works well with all games. You seem to miss the point in all of this is that...gamer DON'T want to play game just well...it has to be beyond excellent. Just as a musician needs to hear all pitch and acoustic to which I can't even begin to understand. So when I said you are not a "gamer", I meant you wouldn't appreciate what a gamer can appreciate. Just as I can't appreciate what a musician can.

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"Did I say it was good for gaming. No." Oh, then you're not a gamer, either. :-P "Can you give me a link for the review of the 1800xt 256mb versus 512mb? I didn't think so." Can you give me a link that shows the 512M is better than the 256M x1800xt? Not to mention two of each in Crossfire? No game right now has 1GB of textures being loaded into video memory. In the future? Eventually, yes, but again, buy it when you need it and save a boatload of money. Regardless of the GPU, if games don't have that much data in textures, additional video RAM doesn't do a bit of good. If games aren't using 512M of video RAM, they surely won't use 1024 (2x512M). I'm very surprised you're attempting to even argue this point. "You seem to miss the point in all of this is that...gamer DON'T want to play game just well." Gamer play games. Me play games. Me gamer. Me want games to play well. You wrong. I have eyes. I play games. I know full well what the differences are. I also know what human beings can and cannot perceive, especially while they're immersed in the game. "it has to be beyond excellent." #1. No, it doesn't. #2. I fully understand someone wanting a faster system than mine. That's not the issue here. We're talking about how reasonable is it to spend $1200 on graphics cards as opposed to spending $400. It can be as good as you're gonna perceive for a fraction of the cost. "I meant you wouldn't appreciate what a gamer can appreciate." I have eyes that see as well as your eyes. Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina. www.redcross.org

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Why dont we just have a new forum on computing.net called "Over the top systems (Who cares about money?)" and get rid of these constant arguements over price vs. performance, seems that every discussion of some kick-arse system or another always degenerates into this. Pretty boring When I dropped $1000 (AUD) on an X800XT PE everybody said i was crazy (with their 9800 XT's, some even with X800's) but when they watched me play games like farcry etc their oppinions soon changed AMD Athlon64 3500+ 1024MB 512x2 Dual Channel Corsair TwinX Coolermaster Wavemaster 120GB Seagate SATA HDD Gecube X800XT Platinum Logitch 5.1 Surround LG 16x Dual Layer DVD Countle

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The vast majority of forums out there don't focus on price/performance. This community does. And again, it's advice he doesn't have to take. My whole point about this system is this: it is unreasonable to spend that much. Like I said, if you want to do it anyway, go right ahead, but don't call it reasonable. Please help survivors of Hurricane Katrina! www.redcross.org

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if moneys no problem I’d forget about crossfire and get a 16X SLI rig with 2 7800GTX 512MB, should have a clear performance advantage over the 1800XT and will be out sooner.

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