is it possible to run Win3.1 using dos7? I'm aware that this wouldn't be a good idea (fat32) -> but what if it were on a boot disk, or ramdisk in fat16 format? I want to add an extension disk to my boot disk and add win3.1 to it...but then i'd be booting from Dos7 into Win3.1...is there anything you guys can think of that would work? Setver didn't seem to.
- W0rm

If you weren't running a Fat32 partition it may work. You can't fit win3.1 on one diskette

For a really minimal installation of Windows 3.1, not 3.11, you can get just the necessary files on a 1.44 floppy. I can post a file list if anyone is interested, and some extra tips.

See these urls for Win 3.1x on DOS 7.x:
http://www.ctyme.com/msdos7.htm
http://win95.winware.org/tricks/osr2bug.htm
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q121/9/63.ASP
http://home1.stofanet.dk/kingsoft/docs/d_boot1.htm#doswin

That would be of interest

i already have a really minimal install on one diskette, and yes it fits -> because I have some very good compression software.

That's besides the point...
It's running on a ramdisk, which isnt fat32.

Very useful info WOrm. Didn't occur to me that a RAM drive in DOS 7.x/Win 4.x is FAT 16.

Ok, I found the reference. Have fun!

Subject: Re: What's the smallest drive I could fit Windows 3.1 and DOS onto?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:53:34 GMT
From: ccalvert@WanGuru.com (Clay Calvert)
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win3x_wfw_dos

Normally Wind.com should actually be Win.com, but it looks like he has
written a batch file to launch "Wind" instead of "Win," probably to
force it to start in Standard mode. Win /s

Another trick to save space is to rename the file Win.cnf to Win.com.
Win.com is normally created by combining Win.cnf and an .RLE file
together. The .RLE file is the initial logo displayed while starting
windows. That image is NOT necessary for the functioning of windows,
in fact, if you start windows by using "win.com :" then the splash
screen isn't even displayed. In Win3.1 this is no problem but WFW
will complain a little but keep going.

In this example, there would be a savings of over 10K:
Wind.com is 26,770 and Win.cnf is 16,112

Taskman.exe, the task manager, isn't really needed.

The DDE & OLE files (DDEML.DLL, OLECLI.DLL, and OLESVR.DLL) you can
also live without.

WIN.CNF Not needed for windows but see above.
KBDUK.DLL Used for British keyboard layouts only
MSCMOUSE.DRV Hey, this is much smaller than the mouse driver that I
used. I want a copy of this guy.
SETUP.INF, SETUP.REG, CONTROL.INF can be run without these.
LZEXPAND.DLL needed by setup programs to decompress installation
files.

This is still an excellent pruning job, even though it doesn't have
File Manager.

I got Win3.1 down to a floppy, and the diskette was even bootable. I
was able to include Notepad and I had to choose between using File
Manager or Program Manager as the shell. I couldn't get both to fit,
until, I started using a RAM drive and unzipped the compressed windows
directory into the RAM drive.

Now I have a boot disk from hell. I got Program Manager, File
Manager, ScanDisk, PkUnZip (Junior), etc., all on one bootable floppy.
And since it runs from a RAM disk, it is the fastest Windows I've ever
seen. Another bonus about File Manager, it can do what Sys.com and
Format.com can do, without having the extra executables on the disk.

Sorry about the rambling, but I was just being nostalgic about Win3.x.
You'd be hard pressed to get Win98 to fit into 100MB, without using
compression.

On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:01:12 -0700, Jerry Lippey/MVP
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win3x_wfw_dos
Subject: Re: What's the smallest drive I could fit Windows 3.1 and DOS onto?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:53:34 GMT

Normally Wind.com should actually be Win.com, but it looks like he has
written a batch file to launch "Wind" instead of "Win," probably to
force it to start in Standard mode. Win /s

Another trick to save space is to rename the file Win.cnf to Win.com.
Win.com is normally created by combining Win.cnf and an .RLE file
together. The .RLE file is the initial logo displayed while starting
windows. That image is NOT necessary for the functioning of windows,
in fact, if you start windows by using "win.com :" then the splash
screen isn't even displayed. In Win3.1 this is no problem but WFW
will complain a little but keep going.

In this example, there would be a savings of over 10K:
Wind.com is 26,770 and Win.cnf is 16,112

Taskman.exe, the task manager, isn't really needed.

The DDE & OLE files (DDEML.DLL, OLECLI.DLL, and OLESVR.DLL) you can
also live without.

WIN.CNF Not needed for windows but see above.
KBDUK.DLL Used for British keyboard layouts only
MSCMOUSE.DRV Hey, this is much smaller than the mouse driver that I
used. I want a copy of this guy.
SETUP.INF, SETUP.REG, CONTROL.INF can be run without these.
LZEXPAND.DLL needed by setup programs to decompress installation
files.

This is still an excellent pruning job, even though it doesn't have
File Manager.

I got Win3.1 down to a floppy, and the diskette was even bootable. I
was able to include Notepad and I had to choose between using File
Manager or Program Manager as the shell. I couldn't get both to fit,
until, I started using a RAM drive and unzipped the compressed windows
directory into the RAM drive.

Now I have a boot disk from hell. I got Program Manager, File
Manager, ScanDisk, PkUnZip (Junior), etc., all on one bootable floppy.
And since it runs from a RAM disk, it is the fastest Windows I've ever
seen. Another bonus about File Manager, it can do what Sys.com and
Format.com can do, without having the extra executables on the disk.

Sorry about the rambling, but I was just being nostalgic about Win3.x.
You'd be hard pressed to get Win98 to fit into 100MB, without using
compression.

On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:01:12 -0700, Jerry Lippey/MVP
wrote:

>How about 1.4Mb, Paul?
>
>I have never tried to make a minimal Windows 3.1, but I riffled through my files
>and ran across the following message from Chris Eve in this newsgroup. (For some
>reason, I could not locate it at Deja.com.)
>--
>-Jerry
>
>--------------------8<------------------- ---------------------
>
>Subject: Re: Installing a 'minimal' version of windows - Advice please
>Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 11:38:04 -0800
>From: "Chris Eve"
>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win3x_wfw_dos
>
>For a really minimal installation of Windows 3.1, not 3.11, you can get
>just the necessary files on a 1.44 floppy, just :-} Attached is a directory
>listing of a floppy I use for those awkward moments when something just
>won't behave itself.
>
> Volume in drive A is WindowsLite
> Volume Serial Number is 2A28-02AE
>
>Directory of A:\
>
>WIN INI 2,259 27/11/94 11:14 WIN.INI
>NOTEPAD EXE 32,736 29/09/92 3:10 NOTEPAD.EXE
>SYSTEM INI 816 17/12/93 23:13 SYSTEM.INI
>TASKMAN EXE 3,744 29/09/92 3:10 TASKMAN.EXE
>WIND COM 26,770 17/12/93 20:53 WIND.COM
>MSDOS EXE 46,640 01/05/90 3:00 MSDOS.EXE
>SYSTEM

17/12/93 23:34 SYSTEM
>REG DAT 864 02/04/94 17:09 REG.DAT
>WIN BAT 20 27/11/94 11:19 WIN.BAT
> 8 file(s) 113,849 bytes
>
>Directory of A:\SYSTEM
>
>. 17/12/93 23:34 .
>.. 17/12/93 23:34 ..
>COMM DRV 9,280 29/09/92 3:10 COMM.DRV
>COMMDLG DLL 89,248 29/09/92 3:10 COMMDLG.DLL
>COURE FON 23,408 07/04/92 3:10 COURE.FON
>DDEML DLL 38,400 15/12/92 0:00 DDEML.DLL
>DOSX EXE 32,682 29/09/92 3:10 DOSX.EXE
>DSWAP EXE 27,474 29/09/92 3:10 DSWAP.EXE
>GDI EXE 220,800 29/09/92 3:10 GDI.EXE
>KEYBOARD DRV 7,568 29/09/92 3:10 KEYBOARD.DRV
>KRNL286 EXE 71,730 29/09/92 3:10 KRNL286.EXE
>MMSOUND DRV 3,440 29/09/92 3:10 MMSOUND.DRV
>OLECLI DLL 83,456 29/09/92 3:10 OLECLI.DLL
>OLESVR DLL 24,064 29/09/92 3:10 OLESVR.DLL
>SERIFE FON 57,936 10/03/92 3:10 SERIFE.FON
>SHELL DLL 41,600 29/09/92 3:10 SHELL.DLL
>SSERIFE FON 64,544 10/03/92 3:10 SSERIFE.FON
>SYSTEM DRV 2,304 29/09/92 3:10 SYSTEM.DRV
>USER EXE 264,016 03/06/93 21:42 USER.EXE
>VER DLL 9,008 29/09/92 3:10 VER.DLL
>VGA DRV 73,200 29/09/92 3:10 VGA.DRV
>VGACOLOR 2GR 4,484 29/09/92 3:10 VGACOLOR.2GR
>VGAFIX FON 5,360 10/03/92 3:10 VGAFIX.FON
>VGAOEM FON 5,168 10/03/92 3:10 VGAOEM.FON
>VGASYS FON 7,280 10/03/92 3:10 VGASYS.FON
>WIN CNF 16,112 29/09/92 3:10 WIN.CNF
>WIN87EM DLL 12,800 29/09/92 3:10 WIN87EM.DLL
>WINOLDAP MOD 31,232 29/09/92 3:10 WINOLDAP.MOD
>WSWAP EXE 16,302 29/09/92 3:10 WSWAP.EXE
>KBDUK DLL 1,428 29/09/92 3:10 KBDUK.DLL
>MSCMOUSE DRV 4,960 29/09/92 3:10 MSCMOUSE.DRV
>SETUP INF 60,205 29/09/92 3:10 SETUP.INF
>SETUP REG 3,508 29/09/92 3:10 SETUP.REG
>LZEXPAND DLL 9,936 29/09/92 3:10 LZEXPAND.DLL
>CONTROL INF 20,993 29/09/92 3:10 CONTROL.INF
> 33 file(s) 1,343,926 bytes
>
>Total files listed:
> 41 file(s) 1,457,775 bytes
> 3 dir(s) 29,184 bytes free
>
>--------------------8<------------------- ---------------------
>
>Paul Chitescu wrote:
>>
>> If you are really good, you can stretch a Windows very much.
>>
>> I currently have a machine in the following configuration:
>> - 80386DX/33, 8MB RAM
>> - totally diskless
>> - no display adapter
>> - no keyboard or mouse
>> - two network boards
>>
>> This machine boots remote from LAN, creates a 3MB RAM disk, allocats 16K
>> instead of CGA video memory. Windows 3.1 starts (CGA video) and loads a
>> Trumpet TCP/IP stack, a Web server, POP3 client, mail daemon, proxy. All
>> file accesses for the Web page and mail send/retrive are trough LAN.
>>
>> Oh, yes, I use standard mode to be able to do the trick with no video. I
>> use a little shareware utility to remotely control the system but now I
>> have a UN*X-like command line accessed trough telnet.
>>
>> The Windows (+System) directory has 1.4 MB (including Trumpet) and the
>> Internet programs (written by myself) use another 174 KB. The program
>> manager is not included, nor the main control panel. I'v done all setup
>> before (about 600 KB freed). The shell is MSDOS.EXE (from Windows 3.0).
>>
>> DOS takes about 150 KB (most of them : EMM386.EXE = 91 KB)
>>
>> The machine runs right now and has about 1 MB free RAM disk (for temp
>> files) and 3 MB free memory. I've booted this machine 2 weeks ago, same
>> for the LAN server (LANtastic 6.0).
>>
>> I think a usable Windows 3.1 system can be reduced to about 3-4 MB of
>> disk space but you must know what it's safe to remove.
>>
>> --
>> Paul Chitescu
>> PaulC.57@icpe.ro
>> http://193.230.185.130/~paulc/
>> ICQ:22641673

Clay Calvert
Replace the "W" in my e-mail address with an "L" to reply.

hmmmm, thanks, it's useful...yet, windows still has the problem with the dos version :(