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MS-DOS Differances

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Name: Billy Wong
Date: December 16, 2000 at 03:03:06 Pacific
Comment:

What is the differance between MS-DOS 7.0 thats comes with Windows 95 and MS-DOS 6.22 which is the last 'real' version of MS-DOS?

Are there any performance differances?
What files are missing?
Can I get a version that says MS-DOS 7.0 and not Windows 95 at the DOS Prompt?

THIS IS NOT HOMEWORK - I want to learn.



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Response Number 1
Name: superal
Date: December 16, 2000 at 03:04:23 Pacific
Reply:

ms dos 7 has limited commands


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Response Number 2
Name: Hansel
Date: December 16, 2000 at 03:37:34 Pacific
Reply:

Ms-dos 7.0 also will not run every dos program.


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Response Number 3
Name: DoOMsdAY
Date: December 16, 2000 at 05:15:25 Pacific
Reply:

MS-DOS 6.22 was the last stand-alone version of DOS, and as such is the last one that is really made to be run all by itself. Since it's stand-alone, it's much easier to tweak because you don't have Windows getting in the way. (If you change a config.sys or autoexec.bat file, they both try and use those settings - which you may or may not want.) I'm sure MS did a lot of internal changes to 7.x to make it more compatible with running 9x, which would explain the problems running some DOS programs that Hansel mentions. Also, as superal says, they have stripped a *lot* of the commands away from 7.x that came with 6.22. (It's not the first time they did that. They also took away a number of commands from back in 3.0 I do believe - things like "exe2bin".) This time they took away incredibly helpful things like "help", though. Beyond those differences, newer (past 95A) versions of 7.x have "large disk support". (I put the quotes because what they call large now will probably be maxed out in time - just like the 8GB limit used to be huge.) This means that you can have a partition larger than 2048 MB. DOS 6.22 tops out at 2048 MB per partition - with up to four partitions. 7.x also supports LFNs, or Long FileNames, but only after being booted into Windows. (Although I have seen utilities - such as xxcopy on Mick C's web page - that may support it in real mode. {Real mode is when it's booted stand-alone. When you boot into Windows, you are in protected mode. There are some DOS programs - games especially - that can also place a real mode DOS into protected mode.} Real and protected mode have to do with how programs access memory in the system.)



Some links...

LFNs
Real and Protected modes


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Response Number 4
Name: TechGUY
Date: December 16, 2000 at 06:02:48 Pacific
Reply:

I find MS-DOS 7.0 from Windows 95 (Or 7.10 from Windows 98) as easy to use as MS-DOS 6.22 As to it not having as many commands as 6.22 They are still available in the OLDDOS Arcive, Older files still from MS-DOS 5.0 and earler can be found in the MS-DOS 6.22 Supplimental Files package (Both available from Mick C's almost legendary powerload site.

Most problems with older DOS Games are becouse of memory allocation or just bad programing in the first place! Most will run in 'Real' Mode if not in 'Protected' Mode. As for MS-DOS 7.0 Not being a real DOS at all. My reply is use the correct version for the job!

(Interesting notes from MS Support)
Support for MS-DOS Mode
While most MS-DOS – based applications run well in Windows 95 (Protected Mode) and can run concurrently with other Win32-based and Win16-based applications, a small number of MS-DOS – based applications require exclusive access to system resources to run. In this case, it is the Virtual Memory Manager (Real Mode) that creates this exclusive operating environment for the application called MS-DOS Mode. When an MS-DOS – based application runs in MS-DOS
Mode, no other applications or processes are allowed to compete for system resources — all resources are at the exclusive access of the MS-DOS – based application. For related information, See Chapter 22, "Application Support." of the Windows 95 Resource Kit


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Response Number 5
Name: Jon Fox
Date: December 16, 2000 at 08:02:13 Pacific
Reply:

But please don't think that DOS 7.0 runs in protected mode, it doesn't. It runs it it's very own little virtual world, V86 mode (which isn't actually a mode), this is pretty much like real mode.
The extended abilities of a DOS box running under Windows come from various bits of code inside Windows (and running in protected mode) which get executed when certain actions are attempted (e.g. executing an INT instruction or trying to access hardware).
A virtual device driver called IFSMGR.VXD handles LFN support, but the DOS program must know how to use it to be able to do so.

You can see this in action by going into "System Monitor" and looking at "Kernel: Virtual Machines".
Whenever you run a DOS program, or DOS, the number will increase by 1. A "Virtual Machine" is a V86 mode task, this terminology is used by MS for some reason.
It describes something which is implemented by the processor rather than something that is achieved through software, so don't be fooled by this!

An interesting point is that there is always at least one "Virtual Machine" in operation.
I wonder if this means that DOS must be running for Windows to function?


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Response Number 6
Name: Jon Fox
Date: December 16, 2000 at 08:15:19 Pacific
Reply:

One thing I forgot to mention: Although DOS cannot run in protected mode, DOS programs can. To do so they usually use something known as a DOS protected mode interface (DPMI) server. The reason for this is a little bit involved so I won't go into it unless you ask.


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Response Number 7
Name: fred6008
Date: December 16, 2000 at 18:10:23 Pacific
Reply:

You're making this more difficult than it is. Real mode came first, and it was DOS.
The need to access servers probably led to
multitasking. Multitasking demands that one program be protected from the other to prevent conflicts that crash the computer. This is in regard to what memory addresses the programs use. Real mode; one program only can run. This is the natural state of DOS. Some programs like Format need real mode, and even as late as Windows 98 the format of a logical drive from a DOS window will not turn out well.
You can shell to DOS from windows multiple times--run several DOS prompts, that is. To me that seems like DOS running in protected mode but this is a matter of definition. If real mode and DOS are the same thing to you, then it cannot run in protected mode.


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Response Number 8
Name: Jon Fox
Date: December 17, 2000 at 08:54:30 Pacific
Reply:

Yeah but that's a DOS extender AKA DPMI server.


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Response Number 9
Name: Jon Fox
Date: December 17, 2000 at 12:05:53 Pacific
Reply:

Sorry wrong reply for the wrong message, don't know how I managed that.


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Response Number 10
Name: JoeM
Date: December 18, 2000 at 08:07:59 Pacific
Reply:

Does this have any thing to do with the problem of Win95 loading and sometimes getting stuck on the Loading the DMI pool and finding that it is now using dos 6.2 instead of the 7. that is installed with Win95 and the only way to make the operating system boot up is to format mbr /s and you are OK..


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Response Number 11
Name: Jon Fox
Date: December 19, 2000 at 15:06:08 Pacific
Reply:

Not wishing to discourage you Fred, but I think that you are a little bit out of your depth here.
"Real mode came first, and it was DOS."
Real mode is a mode in which the processor operates (as is protected mode), DOS was coded to run with the processor in this mode.

"The need to access servers probably led to
multitasking." I think you misunderstood the term DPMI server. Put simply a DPMI server is a resident program which sits between the protected mode program and DOS. The program will talk to the DPMI server when it needs certain tasks performed. The DPMI server may then switch the processor back into real mode and ask DOS or maybe BIOS to perform certain operations. Without this a DOS protected mode program would have to take on some of the roles of an OS.

"Multitasking demands that one program be protected from the other to prevent conflicts that crash the computer. This is in regard to what memory addresses the programs use."
Just out of interest I have it on good authority that Windows doesn't stop programs from meddling with memory locations which belong to other programs. This could be wrong.

"To me that seems like DOS running in protected mode but this is a matter of definition." Not really, it depends on what's actually happening.

"If real mode and DOS are the same thing to you, then it cannot run in protected mode." Excellent point, I like it.


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