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Hard drive spindle speed

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Name: ICT Support
Date: December 13, 2004 at 08:38:57 Pacific
OS: Dos 6.22
CPU/Ram: old/8mb
Comment:

New here and need some help. I am repairing an old 386 computer, which is running a C.N.C woodworking machine, harddrive is shood, changed drive for newer Version, and now cant start machine,spindle speed on old 1 is 4800, new 5400, could this be the problem



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Response Number 1
Name: SkipCox
Date: December 13, 2004 at 10:11:40 Pacific
Reply:

No, the 5400 rpm drive will just be slightly faster. Do you know the drive you installed is a good one? What do you mean by "can't start the machine"?

No post?
Error messages?
Hangs at post and can't find harddrive?

We need more information.

Skip


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Response Number 2
Name: jboy
Date: December 13, 2004 at 10:16:28 Pacific
Reply:

Shood?

Try again - this time don't use the signature field for your message, and maybe relate some details.

HDD recognition is not automatic on a 386 - as well, drives larger than 540Mb (approx) may not be seen properly by the BIOS


Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience


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Response Number 3
Name: ICT Support
Date: December 13, 2004 at 14:35:36 Pacific
Reply:

The harddrive i took out is a maxtor 81620a3 1.6gb, new one is good but 3.5gb, in bios i have set cyl,sectors,head and so on correctly. loaded dos 6.22 on formatted new disk, loaded program to run machine, O.K so far, turned on computer which autoexec program, still no problem, loads to its, i guess desktop program to start machine.. error message, failed to initialize, talk to server i guess!! through com port.

New here and need some help. I am repairing an old 386 computer, which is running a C.N.C woodworking machine, harddrive is shood, changed drive for newer Version, and now cant start machine,spindle s


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Response Number 4
Name: ICT Support
Date: December 13, 2004 at 14:57:54 Pacific
Reply:

Just one other thing, the harddrive which is playing up will still run the C.N.C but now and then its error is, it can't write to c:\ so machine has to reboot. It will not scandisk.? Scandisk starts and stops at surface scan.? If i could pass this, it might give me more info on the problem, can i force a surface scan.?

New here and need some help. I am repairing an old 386 computer, which is running a C.N.C woodworking machine, harddrive is shood, changed drive for newer Version, and now cant start machine,spindle s


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Response Number 5
Name: jboy
Date: December 13, 2004 at 15:04:41 Pacific
Reply:

Very (very) hard to believe that a 3.5 Gb drive would be recognized on a 386 without the use of a drive overlay.

DOS6xx can only work with partitions of 2Gb or less. What does fdisk say for the drive's status (4)?


"so far, turned on computer which autoexec program, still no problem, loads to its, i guess desktop program to start machine.. error message, failed to initialize, talk to server i guess!! through com port."

You're not exactly being clear - if there are error messages, report them as accurately as possible

Why don't they make computers that will do what we think we want them to do?


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Response Number 6
Name: ICT Support
Date: December 13, 2004 at 15:32:45 Pacific
Reply:

O.K we might be getting somewhere, as my field is not in dos, explain how to load dos on a 3.5gb harddrive.? bios has to be set as user defined 47... cyl, sec, head and so on, if i partition the disk...Well you tell me what i should do.? HELP.. it is a £80.000 machine..


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Response Number 7
Name: jboy
Date: December 13, 2004 at 15:44:51 Pacific
Reply:

I'm not so sure you can. A machine from that era has a pretty primitive BIOS, I can't imagine you'd be able to successully enter the parameters for a (relatively) modern hard drive. That's not DOS, that's hardware. In those situations, you would need to use a drive overlay to 'trick' the BIOS into working with the drive - never had occasion to use one, so really can't advise.

You can't do anything under DOS unless the hardware is properly setup - but DOS622 only works with FAT16 partitions (no more than 2Gb)

The DOS from Win98 is not so restricted, but again, you need to have the drive properly recognized by the BIOS before anything else


Why don't they make computers that will do what we think we want them to do?


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Response Number 8
Name: SkipCox
Date: December 13, 2004 at 15:55:16 Pacific
Reply:

I hope I can say this so it makes some sense.

Even though your bios may recognize the drive as 3.5Gig, DOS will limit it to less.

That said, if you fdisk the drive, format the drive and install DOS first, I imagine the CNC program you install will setup everything you need to get the lathe or mill up and running.

At this point, I also have to assume the folks who wrote the CNC program will have tech support available to guide you through setting up the machine.

I'd call them first.

Let us know if you can get any support from the CNC manufacturer.

Skip


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Response Number 9
Name: jboy
Date: December 13, 2004 at 16:02:24 Pacific
Reply:

I'm just having trouble with that - even on many 486 machines the BIOS limited the drive capacity to about 500Mb, and fdisk/format might work, but the drive would then be a 500Mb drive.

Seem to recall successully fdisk&formatting a 1.6Gb on another machine and popping it into a 486 with the BIOS limit.

I'd agree though - if DOS isn't your area, best leave things to someone not so encumbered.


Why don't they make computers that will do what we think we want them to do?


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Response Number 10
Name: ICT Support
Date: December 13, 2004 at 16:03:55 Pacific
Reply:

Thanks for the info, it seems to me, i need to visit ebay for a smaller hard drive before i try anything else, can you answer the problem with the original harddrive, problem with scandisk...surface scan won't start.?


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Response Number 11
Name: jboy
Date: December 13, 2004 at 16:08:55 Pacific
Reply:

That might work - still recommend that you make use of your inhouse experts (unless that's you)

"surface scan won't start"

.. again - details? Does the drive boot, is it still recognized in the BIOS, any related error mesages?


Why don't they make computers that will do what we think we want them to do?


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Response Number 12
Name: ICT Support
Date: December 13, 2004 at 16:22:21 Pacific
Reply:

Yes hard drive boots, program will run, to frightened to format it, as the machine is still producing product, but errors on disk.? running scandisk, no problem until it wants to surface scan.


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Response Number 13
Name: jboy
Date: December 13, 2004 at 16:30:14 Pacific
Reply:

Well, it's difficult to say, but I would guess that it's due to using a drive with a greater capacity than the BIOS was programmed for. If it passes the Scandisk error test, that's good. You might consider trying Norton's Disk Doctor (for DOS) or invest in something like Spinrite.

Even better, upgrade from the 386 to a Pentium class. The 386, while still servicable, has no cash value at all, and a P1 machine could be picked up for a song in most places.


Why don't they make computers that will do what we think we want them to do?


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Response Number 14
Name: ICT Support
Date: December 13, 2004 at 16:34:12 Pacific
Reply:

Thanks for the info, i will let you know how i get on, fingers crossed, i will post the scandisk error tomorrow, thanks again for your help..................


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Response Number 15
Name: SkipCox
Date: December 13, 2004 at 16:40:14 Pacific
Reply:

Understood. Like jboy said, DOS (6.22 or lesser) has a limit of 528Mb. Unless I'm mistaken, a DOS format of any hdd larger than that will limit the C: drive to 528Mb.

I've installed 20Gig hdd's in dos machines and dos would see a 2.1Gig hdd but formatting was limited to 528Mb for the C: drive and I could create logical drives for data storage to use up the remainder of the 2.1Gig. The remainder of the 20 gig drive just sat there dormant.

Someone please correct me if my memory is flawed.

My first shot would be the manufacturer of your CNC machine and don't balk if they ask you to pay for tech support. It may be proprietary to the point that they have to send someone out to fix it.

We do understand that production and minimal downtime is paramount to your operation.

You shouldn't need to go shopping for a different hdd though. As far as I know, any solid drive should work for you.

Skip


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Response Number 16
Name: JackG
Date: December 14, 2004 at 02:39:47 Pacific
Reply:

It is the BIOS that limits the drives on older machines. That would not be the problem here because it had a 1.6GB working on it. But it could have been done with an overlay program on the drive. DOS works with partitions up to 2GB OK.

I you were able to FDISK the drive and setup a primary partition of 2GB or less (leaving the rest unused), and then ran FORMAT C: /s to format it, and then install DOS on to it, it should work. At that point you should try running SCANDISK C: and maybe a Defrag program to see if it is working OK. Do some testing with it BEFORE you place their program on it.

Problem sounds more like a problem communicating with the CNC and not a disk drive problem.


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Response Number 17
Name: SkipCox
Date: December 15, 2004 at 16:53:18 Pacific
Reply:

Thought that was what I said Jack. I do agree with your response though.

If the bios sees the drive, the drive will fdisk, the drive will format and the drive will accept a DOS install, the rest of it should work.

We need to remember though that this CNC application may be like many POS systems in use and may require a download from the software vendor to get everything to work. That makes it important to have a plan and the necessary support in place before taking a valuable machine offline.

Skip


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