I have recently installed MS DOS 6.2 on my computer and everything works fine apart from one thing:

I tryed running MEMMAKER (a program that changes the autoexec.bat and config.sys files in order to move device drivers to the upper memory area, In order to free up the limited 630k of conventional memory for DOS applications,programs, etc).

WHENEVER i ran Memmaker, the computer would not start DOS and freezes at the startup stage so I have to undo all changes to make it work again.

I checked the DOS manual and it told me that if this happens I should add a new line to my config.sys file which opens emm386.exe at startup,. so I did exactly that. Still, it did not work and exactly the same thing happened as when I ran MEMMAKER, so I assume that memmaker was doing that same thing to the autoexec.bat file in the first place just as i did now.

Anyway, I do not understand why I cannot move memory into the upper memory area without it crashing and I dont see why it won't startup when I load emm386 to the autoexec.bat file....

I DO have the emm386.exe driver in c:\dos (just to let you know)and this is why i am confused with why it is not starting up properly...

I need some help with this - does anyone know about memmaker or emm386..? if you do please post back.

THANKS .

Please post a copy of your autoexec.bat and config.sys and your contents of your computer and i may be able to help u.

CONFIG.sys FILE:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH
COUNTRY=044,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
FILES=30

i dont know how to view my autoexec.bat file - my text editor doesnt support batch files so i cant view it - maybe you can tell me another way of seeing it ?

my computer:
athlon xp 2100+, 256mb pc2600 crucial ram, asus a7v600 deluxe MB, 350W eagle PSU, DOS 6.2

If you are useing EDIT ust type

EDIT C:\autoexec.bat

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Your config.sys is not setup to manage upper memory - emm386.exe is NOT loaded via autoexec.bat

Try this (order is important - make these lines the beginning of your conig.sys)

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE

Memmaker is of limited value - it optimizes the load order of devices and applications into high memory - but you don't seem to have any devices (other than tiny setver) to load high.

Loading as many devices and applications into upper memory as possible makes more conventional memory available (the 640K) to run programs under DOS.

You can check on memory usage by entering:

mem/c/p

Use

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... but we haven't seen Richard's autoexec.bat yet (mouse, keyboard etc.), and DOS will load high anyway, freeing up a fair amount. NOEMS doesn't allocate any EMS memory, which may prevent some programs and games running.

It's a fair bet memmaker added the HIGHSCAN parameter to EMM386 which can cause problems on some machines.

Richard - it would be usefull also to see your config.sys and autoexec.bat when memmaker has done it's stuff, because that's what's causing the problem.

Well, hold on now - he's already stated that he's trying to load emm386 from autoexec.bat

The NOEMS parameter is recommended over the RAM - providing a page frame for EMS memory uses (wastes) 64K of upper memory on the off chance that some program from 1989 might need it. Seems pointless to me, but if you do need it you can add it later, or better yet, use multi-config.

Highscan? That's not even there - but yes it's of limited value and can cause problems.

Remember - no emm386.exe loading here

"I dont see why it won't startup when I load emm386 to the autoexec.bat file...."

Nothing can be loaded high from either config.sys or autoexec.bat until upper memory management is enabled by himem & emm386 etc from config.sys

Folks tend to put too much confidence in things like memmaker, when it would be better to understand the principles involved (imo)
You can usually accomplish just as much on your own

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OK, THIS IS MY AUTOEXEC.BAT FILE:

C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((437) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI)
MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=437
KEYB UK,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS

and this is my config.sys file:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH
COUNTRY=044,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
FILES=30

Please note that these are the 2 files without using memmaker (the original files that came with DOS unchanged by me)...

I will try what you mentioned about adding the extra line to the config.sys file that is:
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
DOS=HIGH,UMB

although i have tryed the above line and the computer still crashed on startup (i have never tryed the UMB thing after DOS=high, whatever that is but we'll see what happens...

Please post if you have any other suggestions, sorry i couldnt reply sooner but i'm quite busy these days and am unable to check the forum every hour but now i should be able to so keep posting...!

Yeah, emm386 MUST be loaded from config.sys using DEVICE=

It has to be loaded after himem.sys - it's best if those lines are all at the beginning of config.sys.

Once emm386 is loaded in config.sys, then you can run it as a command line to check its status etc (if necessary).

Once memory management is setup by those three lines in config.sys then you may load device drivers 'high' in config.sys (DEVICEHIGH) and load programs high in autoexec.bat (or even the command line) by using loadhigh (lh)

Don't worry about memmaker for now - concentrate on setting up memory management first before trying to 'tweak' it

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I just tryed the new config.sys file which is:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
COUNTRY=044,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
FILES=30

when i restarted the computer, it crashed again and would not enter command prompt. I still do not understand why emm386.exe is not working - himem seems to be ok by default but emm386.exe has never worked with me when i added it to the config.sys.

Any thoughts?

Assuming that the file itself isn't corrupt, I'm wondering if it's somehow related to 1993 DOS running with modern (fast) ram.

No error messages of any sort - just locks up?

You could try another copy of emm386.exe - even later versions work ok (Win9x)

You might also try step-by-step confirmation at boot (F8) to troubleshoot.

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I did the check confirmation F8 at boot and it crashed at the emm386.exe line so i think that is the problem...

i have another emm386.exe file that i downloaded from kazaa so i'll try that and see if it works..

I'm sure that there are better sources than KaZaA for that file, but give it a go.

Just guessing about the ram being incompatible with DOS6 - but the config.sys is setup correctly, so one has to wonder.

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I did it and now it works !

When it booted up it said something like
"EMM386.EXE 3.11 1992-1997 EMM386 DOES NOT NEED HIMEM"

I have 256MB PC2700 Cricial RAM, AMD Athlon XP 2100+, and MS-DOS 6.2

Can you come up with an explanation with why the original emm386.exe file did not function well, or are you as confused as I am?

maybe its something to do with the RAM as you said...

Oh, I find that absolutely odd - never heard of MS-DOS EMM386.EXE running without himem.sys

Version information seems a bit unusual - the one that comes with 9x reads:

Windows Expanded Memory Driver Version 4.95

No, if it works, it works - my qualms about the ram were just me theorising.

Ok - well, now you can load drivers et al into upper memory blocks, maximizing your conventional memory under DOS6.

You can give memmaker a shot if you want - it should create backups of your original configuration with the extension UMB (iirc)

Anyhow - success.

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Seems like you might be using the DR DOS version (or similar) of emm386 - it doesn't require himem.sys and can be compatible with MS-DOS. Might be worth checking for documentation - it's bound to have other differences.

Does sound like your original version was corrupted.

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This is the exact phrasing at startup:

"Starting MS-DOS . . .

HIMEM is testing extended memory...done
EMM386 3.11 Copyright (c) 1992, 1997 Caldera, Inc. All rights reserved.
EMM386:HIMEM.SYS is installed. This EMM386 does not require HIMEM.sys
Having both HIMEM.SYS and EMM386 loaded reduces available memory and performance.
Frame=NONE
etc,etc ".

Anyway its strange how the emm386 file is corrupted but this could be true because the microsoft dos 6.2 disks are very old (more than 10 years!).

by the way is this sort of thing common in DOS(corrupted emm386.exe file) or is it a rare case. I ask because none of the other DOS files seem corrupted at the moment - all commands work just fine.

Depends on the circumstances, storage media etc. Under normal conditons, relatively rare - again, this is just a guess - you could test it out by trying a known good version of the file - or, there may be other factors at work here.

The DR DOS version does sound superior to M$ (no surprise there) - you may want to disable the himem.sys line since it doesn't seem to need it.

Another good memory management system is QuarterDeck's QEMM - it's one of the best for maximising memory - takes a bit of getting used to though.

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Forgot to add... Caldera purchased DR DOS in 1996

Lots of ways to customise emm386, so it wouldn't hurt to find a command reference - might try:

emm386 /?

.. might give you a list of parameters

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do you know where i can download thed original emm386.exe file for MS-DOS 6.2 from the internet... just to see if my computer is compatible with it (maybe it is about compatibility with new hardware-?)

Not exactly - although it may be included on one of the many bootdisk images available for download.
Version included with Win9x works more or less the same.

Compatability isn't likely an issue - that was just me wondering out loud why your config.sys wasn't working.

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I tries memmaker again and this time it started up without crashing but then said that memmaker should restore the old settings (it did not get into command promp - it just said press enter to continue and then opened memmaker to restore the old settings)

Hmm - not sure what I was thinking - memmaker probably won't function properly with the DR DOS version of emm386.

It's not mandatory that you run it - I never use it myself, it doesn't work well with the multi-config feature of MS-DOS6xx (for one thing)

It can be helpful in maximizing the amount of upper memory available, but if you already have enough, might not be much point in trying to squeeze out the last couple of Kilobytes.

The whole point of making UMBs available is to use them to load drivers etc 'high' freeing up conventional memory.

From what you've posted, setver is loaded high with devicehigh - smartdrv should already be loaded high (automatic)

You're not currently using many of the UMBs - you can check memory with:

mem/c/p

that'll give you the rundown

mem/f

will show upper memory info

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When I typed: "mem/f" at command prompt the amount of free conventional memory was shown but the bottom line read:

No Upper Memory available.

This is the problem - the emm386 driver and himem are not successfully making ANY upper memory available.

Is there any command you can tell me that will load all my drivers or whatever into the UMA without using memmaker(although I think this is impossible since the mem check said that there was no upper memory available - so there needs to be a command to "create" upper memory in my opinion)since memmaker seems to cause all the problems for some reason.

Maybe it could be the EMM386 driver that I recently installed that you suggest might be a DR-DOS version but either way I had ran the memory check before I replaced emm386 and there was still no upper memory area present...

Any help? I am still confused - I thought DOS would be a bit more easy to master but it seems impossible to me at the moment.!

Well, I'll tell ya - I've never had these kinds of problems ever, on too many machines to count.

Hard to predict how a memory manager from a different manufacturer will behave without having the documentation for that command.

Memmaker does very little that you can't do yourself, and I really can't say how it would behave with DR DOS products - that wasn't a suggestion, CALDERA is DR DOS. If you can't set memory management up manually, memmaker likely isn't going to magically fix things.

It's only an optimizer - run once and forget about it - there is no 'command' - memory management is setup in the DOS startup files as described previously (MS-DOS, anyways)

M$ provides an update package for emm386 - I'm not sure if that'll be helpful or not - Don't use it with the DR-DOS version.

Also available from PowerLoad

A brief intro to memory management here (the article references a windows system though - in straight DOS the paths are different)

At the risk of adding to the confusion, possibly you need to disable the himem.sys line in order for the DR DOS version to function properly - I don't know

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I just realised i forgot to mention to you that I am running a dual boot system with
MS-DOS 6.2 and Windows 2000 Professional...

I dont know if this will make a diffrence to any advice you can give me but I'd thought i'd tell you.

I edited the config.sys file using EditPad Pro in Windows when you asked me to try the new lines(etc) and sometimes I used the "edit" command in DOS instead (either way I think they both do the same thing).

Do you think dual operating systems could be one of the factors that is causing the emm386 problems (i dont think so because the 2 OSs are started up seperately and they do not intefere with each other at all) ?

No, I wouldn't think that one would affect the other, but I am unfamiliar with the dual boot process in 2K.

Any plain text editor should work fine - other types of editors tend to insert formatting & font information along with the text, which DOS would attempt to read (and fail). If nothing untoward shows up in DOS Edit then the files are likely fine.

Not sure at all what the difficulty is, although I would suggest trying another copy of MS-DOS emm386.exe - memory management can get complex, and using managers without documentation can often be confusing. That or switch completely over to DR DOS.

The basic setup described previously should (and does) work on any machine that I've installed it on under MS-DOS 622 - your version should be no different - either the problem is with the memory management files, or a hardware incompatability - unless the dual boot setup is having some unknown influence.

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M$ article EMM386 Troubleshooting - might be helpful.

A useful little tool for scoping out available Upper Memory Addresses is UMAScan (sometimes the site is down though, like right now)

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I seem to have found the problem...

After reading the "Troubleshooting emm386" article on Microsoft Knowledge Base one of the main reasons of emm386 "locking up" the computer was:

"If your computer has a SCSI disk controller and requires a device driver for the SCSI adapter, be sure the DEVICE= line for the SCSI driver appears before the DEVICE=EMM386.EXE line. Examples of SCSI device drivers include ASPI4DOS.SYS and USPI14.SYS"

I have a Seagate 160Gb Serial ATA Hard Disk which is recognised as SCSI in Windows 2000 (even windows doesnt support s-ata yet...)
However my manufacturers website only has drivers for all the Windows operating systems and NONE FOR DOS WHATSOEVER...

So I guess the problem is that DOS is not reccognising my hard disk properly and so cannot create an upper memory area using emm386 without a valid driver. The problem is I dont know how to get this driver (trust me I've looked everywhere at the Promise website for drivers - I have an Asus A7V600 motherboard and the downloads website is: http://www.asus.com.tw/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=A7V600 )

Lots of help and advise needed - do you think i am right about the problem though ?

It may be possible - although I've installed emm386 without issue (or drivers) on SCSI machines, but this may be a little different.

Recognition of the hard drive itself really has little to do with it.

EMM386 will lock up if it attempts to use upper memory addresses that are already claimed by hardware.

Give that UMAScan a whirl - I used to use it to determine unused addresses to claim for UMAs - you still may be able to set things up with judicious use of the include and exclude switches (it helps to be a somewhat familiar with hexadecimal though)

More on the switches in the DOS6 Help program - you may have it on your system, a wealth of information.

The danger lies not in the machine itself but in the user's failure to envision the full consequences of the instructions he gives to it.

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What is the UMAScan you were talking about and how do I do it?

Response #29 - there's a link to File Library - look for dos6mm.zip, umascan should be in it.

Just run the program (DOS) it'll present you with a graphical representation of addresses that may be available for upper memory.

As mentioned in the M$ troubleshooting page, you may need to exclude certain address ranges that are in use by hardware so that emm386 can load without locking up the machine.

Umascan is a free utility from PCMagazine that may take some of the guesswork out of the process.

Thinking - it's a habit.

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I downloaded UMASCAN.
Then I ran it in DOS and it gave me the geographical representation of the memory.
There were no unknown or any UMA areas created. Half of it was "ROM" and half was "Video Buffer" . A bit of it was unmarked (which can be safely converted into upper memory blocks).

In fact all of E000 was unmarked.
But, F000, C000, B000, A000 and part of D000 all contained either ROM or video buffer in them (they were not unmarked).

I printed all the information but I dont really know how to use it now.

Can you tell me the steps I need to use this info to create upper memory blocks ?

Ok - it doesn't create anything, it just tries to determine the availability of UM Addresses.

Some systems will use much of the UMA for 'ROM Shadowing' - usually you have some control over this through the BIOS, you may want to reduce the amount of shadowing and free up some blocks. In theory this degrades performance, but I doubt if that's even perceptible on a modern machine. Experiment, run UMAScan after each change and note what is available.

Are you at all familiar with counting in hex?

Basically, what you'll want to do is use the include & exclude switches with emm386, and specify the memory ranges you want included (and excluded)

This may be necessary because emm386 seems to be attempting to use an address range already claimed by hardware, which is likely what is causing it to freeze the machine - that range should be excluded.

You may wish to use the include switch to specify memory ranges that are available but are not being detected by emm386 - this may give you several, non-contiguous memory ranges - not as good as one' piece' but still likely usable.

Normally it's not this difficult, but I believe your issues are caused by the ATA controller's use of UMA addresses which are not being detected by emm386, and that many of the otherwise available addresses are being 'wasted' as shadow ROM.

You should, for instance, be able to claim a piece of the Video Address range used for displaying monochrome:

... emm386.exe I=B000-B7FF

This is a tweak often used to make more UMA available.

If all of the 'E' range is available, you can specify it too:

.... emm386.exe I=B000-B7FF I=E000-EFFF

Likewise, you may need to exclude the address range in use by your ATA adapter.

Heady stuff, I know - you'll need to experiment a bit (& reboot a lot) - some of this is referenced in that M$ troubleshooting page, as well as the excellent DOS6 Help program - which if you don't have, I highly recommend (it's on the 95/98 CDs as well as online)

I would also recommend (for now, at least) that you stick with the MS-DOS emm386.exe, I suspect it was premature to declare it as being corrupt, and it's best to keep things as simple as possible when t-shooting.

We're gun-hating, Celsius-loving, maple leaf-on-our-backpacks, standing on guard Canadians. We know we're a lot better off than you-know-who but we're just too darned polite to crow about it.

I changed my config.sys file to THIS:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=A000-DFFF X=F000-FFFF I=E000-EFFF
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /DOUBLE_BUFFER+
COUNTRY=044,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
FILES=30

DOS started up properly this time and the emm386 version information came on the screen, then it said
"press any key to continue". so i did, then it said that emm386 is not installed.

I typed mem and there was still no upper memory area..

This is exactly what happens at startup now:

Starting MS-DOS...

MICROSOFT Expanded Memory Manager 386 Version 4.48 Copyright Microsoft Corporation 1986, 1993

WARNING: User Specified ranges overlap.

EMM386 is not installed- XMS Manager not present.

Press any ket when ready...

HIMEM is testing extended memory...done.

C:\>C:\dos\smartdrv.exe /L

MODE prepare code page function completed

MODE select code page function completed
C:\>

CHECK MY PREVIOUS POST FOR MORE INFORMATION

Richard - the himem.sys line MUST be loaded before you can load emm386.

Typically you put those 3 lines together at the beginning of your config.sys

Although the DOS= line can actually go anywhere, having himem first, then emm386 sets up memory management, and allows the devicehigh statements to work. Keeping them all together is just a matter of organization.

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=A000-DFFF X=F000-FFFF I=E000-EFFF
DOS=HIGH,UMB

Try it that way and see if you get more encouraging results - if it works, you won't have a whole lot of upper mem, but it'll be a start.

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I changed the order of the config.sys file like you suggested and now it crashes when it says "press a button to continue" (check post 37 for details). It stops responding even after you press a key.

What do you think it means when it says:

"WARNING: User Specified ranges overlap.
EMM386 is not installed- XMS Manager not present."

It has said this since I added the exclusions and inclusions on the emm386 line of config.sys. Does this mean the ranges I typed in are wrong (maybe I should only type either inclusion or exclusions - not both as I did...)

Its starting to get on my nerves now!! but no worries i'm sure its something minor.

Thanks

Sure, it may require some experimentation, which can be a bit tedious since overlaps will lock up the machine.

What I would try is just excluding the address range of the ATA adapter, if you've been able to determine what that is - and no other includes or excludes, at least not at the moment.
It's that particular range that seems to be the sticking point - emm386 should be able to load once it stops trying to claim that range, and should be able to determine the rest (or most) of the available addresses on its own.

You may need to tinker to get the range exactly right.

The venerable DOS MSD also has a memory utility to show address allocation.

Also, you may be able to make more ranges available by disabling some of the Shadow ROM in BIOS.

'Normally' it isn't this complicated - but every machine is different.

I'll look into this a bit more later - have to go, it's Mother's Day (!) need to go for a visit.

Some people are like Slinkies™, not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs...

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