Where is Jackbomb when you need him? :( The master expert on the topic is gone? Hi :)

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I PM'd him yesterday & asked him to check your post & make a recommendation. Hopefully he'll get around to it soon. "If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction

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If I were you, I would get an NVidia 5200 AGP Video Card. Those cards run best on older Pentium 3's. Hi I'm Maddie I'm a beautiful black flower, Hi I'm Maddie I'm a beautiful black flower, Hi I'm Maddie. Hi I'm Maddie. Hi I'm Maddie I'm a beautiful black flower,

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LOL. I think he knows better than to get an FX5200, especially if at one time he had a Radeon X850XT. "If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction

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I had an FX5200 once... it was truly horrible and the card ran so hot it burnt me once lol. Thanks for the suggestion though, i appreciate it :) I guess we're just waiting on Jackbomb eh? Hi :)

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I have a P3 machine that I like to tinker with. Mine has a X1650Pro in it and you can get them dirt cheap now. You have to be careful though, I have a HIS 512MB X1650Pro that refuses to work in this P3 system but a Sapphire 256MB X1650Pro works flawlessly. Both have the exact same connectors. I'm able to play a fair few games on it very well. I have tried Just Cause, Flat Out 2, Far Cry, Sims 2 which all play fantastically. A CPU bottleneck does present its self when Playing Need For Speed Underground 2 and Most Wanted. Under ground 2 can run fine on good settings but if the game gets busy it can struggle, Most wanted needs to be on fairly low at 800x600 to be playable. So the X1650Pro is bottle necked by my system, but it is a single CPU setup with its memory maxed out with 768MB of PC133. I'm assuming you probably have DDR, which will remove any bottle neck in the RAM and give plenty of Overclocking potential for the CPU. The P3 performs much better with a higher FSB so maby you should consider O/C'ing yours. Id recommend getting the X1650Pro even though it is limited a bit, but its better to be limited by the CPU than the GPU. Hmmmm, I've been eying off those AGP X3650's though..... I need to stop myself. Mattwizz3 Super PIII 1.49GHz 141FSB 768MB PC133 2x 80GB HDDs AGP 4x X1650Pro XP Pro SP3

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I'm not sure if i'd like a 3850 AGP in case i want to do bluray or any HD stuff sometime or just get an AGP x850XT card... they are faster than the x1650 and are naively AGP avoiding problems that sometimes occur with thos AGP to PCI-E bridges. x850XT also lacks SM3 support. Jackbomb still isn't here :( Hi :)

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Sorry for making you wait so long! Grab some coffee...you're in for quite a read. I'll try to keep my bragging to a minimum. A few lame jokes here and there to keep you focused. :) "P3 1.4GHz Tualatin performs as good or better than a P4 2.0GHz." More like a 2.1-2.2GHz Northwood. I had my P3 overclocked to 1.66GHz on a 158MHz FSB. With PC-2700 memory, the machine performed like a 2.53GHz P4. However, I recently gave the Super P3 to my kids. Our living room HTPC is now powered by a "super-clocked" Pentium M. It's in the sig. "I've read about HD3850s in Pentium 3 machines..." You probably read about it right here. :) See this post: http://www.computing.net/answers/cp... I managed to get a 1.66GHz P3 to play blu-rays smoothly under XP (but not completely smoothly under Vista) using an HD 3850. Actually, I put together the new Super Pentium M just so that I could play BDs and record HDTV under Vista--I'm trying to dump XP for good and have Vista on all machines. The Super P-M, with the help of a GeForce 9600GT, plays BDs under Vista using only 20-30% of the CPU. "...but i'm certain it would have been heavily bottlenecked." Oh yeah. Definitely. The HD 3850 didn't increase 3D performance over the 7950GT at all. In fact, the 7950GT was actually faster than the 3850! The CPU was definitely limiting the 3850. There was, however, a nice boost going from an X800XT A-I-W to the 7950GT (especially after overclocking the CPU to 1.66GHz). Even the CPU-limited 3DMark01 showed improvement: 7950GT=19, 000; x800XT= 16, 000. To give you an idea of the kind of CPU bottlenecking going on with the 7950GT+P3 combo, a 7800GTX (which is slower than the 7950GT), produced a score of 30, 000 when paired with a 3.2GHz Opteron. And with a pair of 8800GTS cards, the Opteron nearly hits 50, 000. There's a point to my boasting. It should give you an idea of how the fastest P3 compares to a modern CPU running CPU-limited games. After throwing more videocard power at the CPUs than they knew what to do with, the K8 Opteron at 3.2GHz (roughly equivalent to a C2D e6700) hit a maximum of 50, 000; the P3 1.4 at stock speed maxed out at 15, 000. And 3D'01 is a single-threaded application. That 50, 000 was generated with just one core of the modern CPU. There were plenty of videocard ponies* left; if 3D'01 had been multi-threaded, the system would've produce an even higher score! So, the bottom line is that if you aren't going to be playing HD movies on your machine, a GeForce 7600GT will be enough. If you are going to turn your system into an HTPC, the cheap Radeon HD 3650 should be your top card. "they would surely be bottlenecked by the mere 4x bus wouldn't they?" The 9800XT? No. The x850XT? No. The 7950GT and HD3850? Probably. But you'd run into a CPU bottleneck long before seeing an AGP bottleneck, especially if the board doesn't allow you to overclock. As Mattwizz3 pointed out, the P3 loves extra FSB bandwidth. Intel's SDR GTL+ bus is definitely the P3's weakest point. Unfortunately, Tualatin's data prefetch logic can't quite save it from Slow Bus Syndrome. Overclocking a P3 (especially Tualatin) gives it a nice boost. By overclocking my 1.4 to 1.66, the 3D'01 score jumped from 15, 000 to 19, 000. Mattwizz3 wrote: "You have to be careful though, I have a HIS 512MB X1650Pro that refuses to work in this P3 system but a Sapphire 256MB X1650Pro works flawlessly." Yep, I noticed that too. I had an e-VGA GF7800GS that couldn't enter 3D mode without throwing a BSOD; yet an XFX 7950GT worked fine. The videocard guessing game is a pain in the ass, but you have to play it (and win it) in order to build a Perfect Super P3. :P "I'm not sure if i'd like a 3850 AGP in case i want to do bluray or any HD stuff " You'll need to upgrade to Win XP before even thinking about Blu-Ray. You'll probably also need to overclock. When I tested BD playback at the P3's stock 1.4/133, I got quite a few dropped frames, even though CPU usage was below 90%. While CPU usage was actually higher at 1.66/158 than it was at 1.4/133, playback was much smoother. The fact that CPU usage was higher at the overclocked speed led me to believe that I had an FSB bottleneck. See, at the lower speed, the FSB wasn't supplying the CPU with data quick enough, leading to lower CPU usage--as well as dropped frames. Even though you have two CPUs under the hood, you probably don't have enough bus bandwidth @ stock speed. Mattwizz3: "A CPU bottleneck does present its self when Playing...Most Wanted." I didn't have that problem. I was able to run Most Wanted at 1280x960 quite smoothly using a 7950GT. However, Most Wanted was one of the games that ran slower after the installation of the HD3850 card. I've noticed that nvidia cards seem to have less CPU overhead (at the driver level, perhaps?) than ATI cards. Fortunately, it only seems to be noticeable on older systems. *It's been scientifically proven that GPUs are actually powered by tiny microscopic ponies running their little hearts out beneath the integrated heat spreader. Transistors? BS. The Quad-Pumped Super P3: Pentium M Dothan @ 2.82GHz (166x17) 3GB PC6400 @ 667MHz 9600GT Blu-Ray Modified PowerMac G4 Quicksilver case Homebuilt 1080p projector Vista SP1

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Wow... dude you really know your $#!+ I wouldn't have minded if you did rant btw because i enjoy reading your posts as i find them very informative and interesting. But i think your best joke is calling the Pentium M a super quad pumped P3 haha =D I went to setup a Pentium M machine once but the cpu i bought (Dothan 780) was defective so i blew a lot of money there :( After seeing how badly bottlenecked the P3 is and reading your post i start to think about abandoning this project and just skipping ahead to a Dothan or Yonah based system. Yonah would be nice for dual core, slightly higher overall clock speed, i think it has SSE3 and so on... Hi :)

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"just skipping ahead to a Dothan or Yonah based system." Why not skip directly to the Core 2? I built my new theater rig around the P-M instead of a Core 2-based CPU only because I wanted to reuse my dead notebook's processor. All I had to do was find a cheap motherboard on eBay. :P The Quad-Pumped Super P3: Pentium M Dothan @ 2.82GHz (166x17) 3GB PC6400 @ 667MHz 9600GT Blu-Ray Modified PowerMac G4 Quicksilver case Homebuilt 1080p projector Vista SP1

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Cause i like my machines to be a little different... i like to be an individual =) Having the same stuff as everyone else is boring =P Hi :)

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I can attest to that :) The Quad-Pumped Super P3: Pentium M Dothan @ 2.82GHz (166x17) 3GB PC6400 @ 667MHz 9600GT Blu-Ray Modified PowerMac G4 Quicksilver case Homebuilt 1080p projector Vista SP1

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I'd say that my P3 system struggles with NFS Most wanted because of the PC133 on my very old M/B. It dosent officially support Tualatins and is using an adaptor. Still, I love using it and its the most interesting one out of all my PC's. http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/... Mattwizz3 Super PIII 1.49GHz 141FSB 768MB PC133 2x 80GB HDDs AGP 4x X1650Pro XP Pro SP3

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Does having DDR instead of SD mean your ram is practically twice as fast at the same frequency due to double the operations per clock? Mattwizz3, your PC looks awesome man! =D Oh and the molex power cable to your x1650 looks like a floppy power cable from the angle you have taken the photo =P What makes you stick with your old rig Matt? i like oldschool computers... like some people like oldschool cars... and i'm only 17 so P3 is oldschool for me =P Hi :)

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Heh, it is a floppy power cable. Actually a really good idea. I dont really use floppy drives anymore but use lots of molex. A better setup IMO. And I think thats right. SDR was originally meant to mean Synchronous Dynamic Ram (I think), but now more commonly known as Single Data Rate to give you the contrast to DDR. Either way, SDR is much slower. Mattwizz3 Super PIII 1.49GHz 141FSB 768MB PC133 2x 80GB HDDs AGP 4x X1650Pro XP Pro SP3

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"What makes you stick with your old rig Matt? i like oldschool computers... like some people like oldschool cars... and i'm only 17 so P3 is oldschool for me =P" Heh, It's not my main PC. I have a nice new setup for pretty much everything. I just like tinkering with the P3, I have it set up with a nice old Pioneer amp from 1973 and enjoy listening to music with it. It next upgrade is a decent sound card and a bigger hard drive to accomodate more music and videos then probably gigabit ethernet so I can transfer files between it and my main PC faster. Heh, I'm 20. Not an old fart so P3's are about the same to me as they are to you. I wouldent quite say old school, thats Socket 7 territory. Nothin beats a decent Super 7 PC with AGP, except everything that beats it. Mattwizz3 Super PIII 1.49GHz 141FSB 768MB PC133 2x 80GB HDDs AGP 4x X1650Pro XP Pro SP3

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"I have it set up with a nice old Pioneer amp from 1973 and enjoy listening to music with it." Aren't the older Pioneer electronics great? I still have my '86 Pioneer laserdisc player. It sits right next to the rest of the A/V equipment and even gets used once in a while. Used to have it connected to a Pioneer receiver, a pair of Yamaha speakers, and a 30" RCA console. It was one hell of a home theater setup at the time...lol. The Quad-Pumped Super P3: Pentium M Dothan @ 2.82GHz (166x17) 3GB PC6400 @ 667MHz 9600GT Blu-Ray Modified PowerMac G4 Quicksilver case Homebuilt 1080p projector Vista SP1

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I got rid of all my modern stereo equipment and have replaced it all with stuff from the 70's. My newest bit of audio equipment is from 1981. most of the stuff from the 70's and very early 80s has amazing detail and bass if they are in good working order. I'm starting a collection of LP's and love the sound.... My 2 interests are two different worlds. Computers to Vintage audio equipment. The pioneer also looks great! http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/... EDIT: OOPS, the pioneer is from 1978 not '73. I was thinking of another amp I have. Mattwizz3 Super PIII 1.49GHz 141FSB 768MB PC133 2x 80GB HDDs AGP 4x X1650Pro XP Pro SP3

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Gotta love the old audio gear, still using an old Monarch amp and Linear Design speakers in my garage. I've always wanted to put together a super P3 rig, the closest I have at the moment is a Tualatin Celeron 1200 paired with SLI'd Voodoo II's. My other interest ATM is RAMBUS, don't know why, just looks really cool and runs really hot! A500 rockin' at 7MHz!!! Xeon E3110 rockin' at 4GHz

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@ Mortagen, Technically, all modern RAM is SDRAM. Although SDRAM has become the generic term for PC100/PC133, it should really be called SDR-SDRAM. The other types should be called DDR-SDRAM, DDR2-SDRAM, DDR3-SDRAM, etc but in this abbreviated world, I guess that's too much to ask. "Does having DDR instead of SD mean your ram is practically twice as fast at the same frequency due to double the operations per clock?" As with most changes in technology, there's usually little or no performance difference in the early going. DDR266 theoretically doubles the available bandwidth at 133MHz but the chipsets & CPUs available at that time weren't able to take advantage of it. "If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction

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Thanks for the info on the Ram Jam (LOL that sounds funny!) and mattwiz. Can't say i know much about audio to be honest... but i spose if i got into that too then i'd like the older stuff also :) Super Socket 7 was my first pc... AMD K6-3 (or 2... i think it was 3). I don't like them very much tbh but i still have it stored away. Hey ADZ do you like the look of RDRAM because of the heatsinks? you can get that on ddr... the reason why i say can is because it isn't so much a requirement as it was with RDRAM because it ran so hot lol =P Hi :)

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Hey, I am an old fart. I still have some of my old audio equip...Techics turntable, Marantz receiver, Pioneer speakers, plus a Sony single drawer CD player from the late 80's. And I'm still hanging on to my Sunn Sorado bass amp from when I was in a heavy metal band in the early 70's. It's a 1967 model, old vacuum tube type & the cabinet holds two 15" Altec Lansing speakers. The amp along with my Hagstrom bass guitar are probably worth a small fortune. "If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction

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I've read about vacuum tube amps being popular amongst enthusiasts... commonly referred to as audiophiles =) Hi :)

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In my younger days they were known as hippies...lol "If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction

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hahah, I'm actually after a tube amp at the moment. Little can be found under $2000. Old second hand stuff in "unknown condition" might be had for $200 or more... I will settle once I have either a medicore tube system or a very good solid state system.... I'm also part of a Vintage Audio forum. So dont go dissin me and my peeps aaigght!?!? We audio guys are tuff. heheh. "Super Socket 7 was my first pc... AMD K6-3 (or 2... i think it was 3). I don't like them very much tbh but i still have it stored away." !!! You dont like a Super 7 with a K6-3!! You cant of done it right! heh, Nah I love any old socket 7 system but I do seem to be having problems getting a K6 system working at all. I guess the reason I love tinkering with older Socket 7 and P3 systems is because I like to push them to their max capabilities and see what I can make them do. It's great doing something on an older system that it was never intended for. XP pro running on a P75 with 64MB of ram and 2GIG HDD.... It was a feat I couldn't believe actually worked. This is obviously something you do when you have a lot of spare time. Mattwizz3 Super PIII 1.49GHz 141FSB 768MB PC133 2x 80GB HDDs AGP 4x X1650Pro XP Pro SP3

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Haha people have run XP on a lot less than that but i understand what you mean :) I don't think highly of K6... just not fond of them for some reason... P2 is the same... my love started at the Pentium 3 and i don't know why lol. Gotta love s370 eh? :P Some of those vacuum tube systems get expensive for the hardcore $#!+... like 10 grand and up... for the real 'hippies' lol =) Hi :)

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@Mortagen The sinks on RAMBUS are riveted on, so it looks a lot better than most of the sinks you see on DDR. I've had sinks on my DDR for the last five years and my current rig even has activity LEDs ;-) But going back to RAMBUS, its kinda like my Amiga addiction, at the time I couldn't afford high end stuff like that and now that it's fairly cheap (and I earn a lot more) I can. A500 rockin' at 7MHz!!! Xeon E3110 rockin' at 4GHz

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mmm yeah i know that feeling... at the moment i'm buying all the things i always wanted from the late 20th/early 21st centuries that i couldn't afford at the time. I didn't know rambus used rivets to put their heatsinks on... you've taught me something today and i just woke up :) Hi :)

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jam... Don't give our ages away. I still have the Panasonic/Pioneer/Teac stuff I bought in PI, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Nam. That stuff makes a pretty durn good PC speaker system with quad, two equalizers and 4 speakers. Mortagen... Yep, 4 rivets on the stick of rambus I'm lookin' at now. And "WARNING! HOT SURFACE" embossed on the heatsink. Hippies huh? Might be why I'm beginning to look like a ZZ Top groupie. Think I'll stop this and listen to Deep Purple do Lazy. Skip

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Still a young fella myself, although next year I hit the big 30, yikes! Yup, "WARNING! HOT SURFACE" is embossed on all my RD-RAM, never understood why they put it so low down, as you'd have to remove the RAM, be it hot or not, to read it? A500 rockin' at 7MHz!!! Xeon E3110 rockin' at 4GHz

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yeah before i google imaged rdram to checkout the differences with heatsinks and i noticed the embossed warning and the rivets... and the pins on the ram not taking up all the available space on the ram... lol Hi :)

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"Hippies huh? Might be why I'm beginning to look like a ZZ Top groupie." I went the other route & have been shaving my head since the late 90's. I wanted to distance myself from the ZZ Top crowd...lol. "Think I'll stop this and listen to Deep Purple do Lazy" Thanks, that friggin song is gonna be stuck in my head all day. I can hear Blackmore's solo now ;-) "If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions" - Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) in Pulp Fiction

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jam...gotcha! =]:{> Mortagen...settle on a video card yet? Skip

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No not really... i don't know what to pick :( Hi :)

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I think because it is a Dual CPU setup with DDR its definitely worth getting something good. The X850XT should do fine, but if you want something more modern the X1xxx, X2xxx, X3xxx Ati cards are pretty darn good. An X3650 is so damn tempting, but not worth it on my rig. Could be worth it on yours, especially for watching HD. If your wanting to watch HD off your hard disk I think something like the X850XT should be fine. I can watch 720p HD videos on my Single core PC133 rig with a X1650Pro, have no probs and dosent stress it out at all. I'm sure if I put the old 9550 it would still work fine. Given yours is dual CPU it should be fine. Mattwizz3 Super PIII 1.49GHz 141FSB 768MB PC133 2x 80GB HDDs AGP 4x X1650Pro XP Pro SP3

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will a new card explode or kill itself/the agp slot/the motherboard if i put it in an old P3 agp4/agp pro slot? Thanks Hi :)

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AGP cards/slots are keyed to prevent such a thing from happening. More info here A500 rockin' at 7MHz!!! Xeon E3110 rockin' at 4GHz

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