I have an old slot 1 system that currently has an Intel WS440BX motherboard and an Pentium 3 500MHz/512KB/100MHz processor in it. I just ordered a 1.2GHz/256KB/100MHz Tualatin socket 370 FCPGA Celeron off of Ebay. I've bidded on an SPC370 Socket 370 to Slot 1 adapter. My question is will this definitely work? I've heard that it will, provided that the BIOS is up-to-date. How up-to-date should the BIOS be? I'd rather avoid updating the BIOS if possible, but will if required.

My last question is do these Celerons need a HSF? I don't see anywhere to mount one on the slot adapter.

I know I probably should have asked before buying anything, but I just want to be double sure this will work. Thanks for your reply.

WinSimple Software

Heatsinks for socket 370 chips clip onto the socket its self, you definitely need a HSF. This should work, usually it will work fine as long as the FSB is within spec. The BIOS may not need updating, I have got a 370 Coppermine to 370 Tualatin converter on one of my systems and the BIOS recognized the processor fine. Make sure your 370 to Slot 1 adaptor works with Tualatins (FCPGA2), if it only works with Coppermine CPU's you will need another adapter to go on your adapter!! Coppermine CPUs will work in FCPGA and FCPGA2 370 sockets but Tualatins will only work in FCPGA2 sockets.

Heh, a fair bit of jargon in that!

Mattwizz3

I'll say! Thanks for the reply. Yeah it's confusing to me.

Here's a picture of the same one I'm bidding on at Ebay:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...

Here's another pic:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...

The second link says that it is a "CPU PPGA/Coppermine FC-PGA-to-Slot 1 Adapter Card." The Ebay listing of the CPU I ordered says it is a "Tualatin FC-PGA" processor. What's the difference between the Coppermine FC-PGA processor and the Tualatin processor? That's where I'm stuck. By the sounds of your post it sounds like I'm going to need yet another adapter. Thanks SO much for helping me with this.

BTW, what kind of a speed increase will I get compared to the P3 500MHz that was in the system?

WinSimple Software

http://developer.intel.com/design/s...

That page says the only difference between FCPGA and FCPGA2 is the CPU packaging. I'm curious as to why it won't work?

WinSimple Software

I don't know why you would order a Celeron over a P3. Especially when you can get a 1.0GHz for just $13:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?in...

http://processorfinder.intel.com/de...

And I don't know what the Celeron + Slot adapter is costing you, but you could have gotten a P3/1.0GHz/100MHz Slot 1 CPU for $35:

http://www.starmicro.net/detail.asp...

"the only difference between FCPGA and FCPGA2 is the CPU packaging"

The FCPGA2 has a heatspreader over the CPU core so it's easier to mount a HSF. The FCPGA version has an exposed core & it can be difficult to install the HSF...sometimes the CPU will actually crack during installation. But there are other differences in the CPUs themselves. You ordered a Tualatin based CPU when you should have gotten a Coppermine. One big difference is the voltage. For example, the 1.0GHz P3 Coppermine that I listed above runs at 1.75v, but the Celeron that you ordered runs at 1.5v:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...

From a 500MHz/100/512K P3 to a 1.2/100/256K Celly you should see a decent speed increase. I have a 1.4GHz/133/512K P3 running on an adapter and its running XP SP2 very smoothly with 768MB of RAM and a 9550 Graphics card. It can even play Just Cause and Flat out 2!!! 384Mb of RAM on your PC may be OK, but if you can go for 512MB or more its more worthwhile.

@ jam

"I don't know why you would order a Celeron over a P3. Especially when you can get a 1.0GHz for just $13"

I'm not sure how much the OP has payed for his Tualatin 1.2 Celly, but why would you go for a Coppermine P3 @ 1GHz/100/256K over a Tualatin Cel @ 1.2GHz/100/256K? The cost of the adapter does figure in admittedly.

When it comes down to it, if your upgrading this machine for the hell of it go for the Tualatin. If you are looking for a cost effective upgrade for your main PC maby go for the Coppermine, but probably better off finding a second hand PC for cheap. I found a perfectly working 2GHz P4 /256MB DDR/40G HDD on the side of the road that someone had discarded. It even had XP SP2 running on it. Wasn't even a scratch on it! You can get decent everyday PC's for dirt cheap now days.

Mattwizz3

"why would you go for a Coppermine P3 @ 1GHz/100/256K over a Tualatin Cel @ 1.2GHz/100/256K?"

One consideration was cost, although I have no idea how much he's paying. The other thing is will the Tualatin work? I have two "slotkets" sitting in a box at home but have never used them...I'm not sure if voltage will be a problem or not?

EDIT: I just did a quick search & found THIS. Apparently voltage isn't a problem?

Thanks for the replies!

Ok I didn't order a P3 because everything that I've read online says that the FSB runs at 133MHz. The FSB of the system I'm upgrading only runs at 100MHz. I heard that the Celerons run on 100MHz FSB which is why I ordered it. I also read that the Tualatins are slightly faster than the Coppermines.

I paid $1.95 (excluding shipping) for the Tualatin 1.2GHz Celeron on EBay. Right now I'm currently the highest bidder on a 370SPC Socket 370 to Slot 1 adapter at $7.50. What I can't figure out is whether or not it's going to work when it all arrives.

Here's the listing of the processor I ordered:

http://cgi.ebay.com/tested-good-Int...

The description says FCPGA. It doesn't say FCPGA2. The slot adapter I'm bidding on says it will work with FCPGA Coppermines and PPGA processors. Either the guy selling me the Celeron made a mistake and it's really a FCPGA2 instead of just a FCPGA, or they really do make Tualatins that are FCPGA only. I wish someone could help clear this up for me. Thanks!

WinSimple Software

I've used a Slocket adapter but only for a 400MHz Celeron. You can get Slocket adapters which accept FCPGA2 Tualatins but they are a little harder to find. I think Getting a coppermine Slocket and then using a FCPGA to FCPGA2 adaptor could work, but might create some issues. Dont get the Slocket adapter unless you know it will work with Tualatins.

Tualatins were only ever made in FCPGA2, in fact they are the reason for it.

"I also read that the Tualatins are slightly faster than the Coppermines."

Thats because they have more cache. A coppermine Celeron has 128K of L2 Cache and the P3 has 256K, Tualatin Celerons have 256K L2 and Tualatin P3's have 512K L2.

Mattwizz3

Ok thanks for clearing that up. I've tried looking for a FCPGA to FCPGA2 adaptor but haven't been able to find one. I also looked for a slotket that supports FCPGA2 on Google and couldn't find a single one. I e-mailed the guy that I bought the Tualatin from and he said that he "uses a universal template for CPU auctions" and because of that, the Tualatin he sold me is an FCPGA2, except he listed it as a FCPGA. Oh well it looks like I'm going to be cancelling my bid on that Socket 370 adapter. Thanks so much for the replies!

WinSimple Software

Ok I cancelled my bids on that Slotket that was for $7.50 (man I hate to do that!). I found one cheaper (1.50 excluding shipping) that has more dip switches and jumpers. I'm going to buy a 1.0 GHz Celeron Coppermine as well for about $18 including shipping on EBay. If I can run atleast a 1GHz processor in this I'll be happy. I might use that Tualatin processor in another system I might build later when I can get a Socket 370 board to use it with.

Thanks so much for your expert advice!

WinSimple Software

That Coppermine celeron isnt really a good choice, 128K of L2 will slow things down. I have a 1.1GHz Coppermine celeron and its pretty slow. Tualatin Celerons are OK because of the extra cache and are reasonably fast.

It used to be easy to find the adapter on e-bay but seems a little more difficult now. I did a search for you but couldn't find anything.

Mattwizz3

Thanks for looking! I wish I could find a FCPGA2 adaptor, it's a bummer. I've looked all day using Google and EBay using the different terms it's named, but to no avail.

Are the Celerons with 128KB of L2 still faster than the P3 500MHz? Thanks!

WinSimple Software

Would jam's link in #4 be faster?

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?in...

WinSimple Software

BTW, how much faster is a processor with a 133 MHz FSB than a processor with a 100 MHz FSB? Thanks.

WinSimple Software

Yep, probably not too far off the 1.2GHz Tualatin Celeron. Remember, L2 Cache is very important! Then FSB, then clock rate. AMD made Durons with only 64KB of L2, the first celeron actually had no L2 and was hideously slow. Try disabling the L2 cache in the bios and see for yourself. Disabling the L2 on my 1.4GHz Tualatin P3 makes it take longer to boot XP than a 100MHz Pentium 1 with 64Mb of RAM!!!

Mattwizz3

Yeah I've got a P1 with 64MB of RAM. Not fast by any means. Can't imagine what that Celeron would be like with the L2 disabled.

I almost forgot about this thread. I've got one piece of advice for those who bid on EBay. NEVER EVER retract a bid. I did that and got into trouble with the seller because of it. Well I corrected my mistake and all seems to be well.

I wanted to update you. I didn't order that Celeron Coppermine but ordered a 1GHz Coppermine P3 that has 256KB of L2 cache. It should arrive tomorrow. I received my slot 1 adapter yesterday. Can't wait to hook everything up. I have a Socket 7 HSF ready to go on it. It snaps right on the slocket with the Tualatin I ordered connected to the slocket. Would this be adequate enough? The heatsink is not real big. Thanks as always for your advice.

WinSimple Software

Make sure that the HSF has plenty of air flow if its not very big. Some of the faster Coppermine CPU's make a fair bit of heat. You will need to clean the bottom of the heatsink and use thermal paste. dont go overboard with the thermal paste, the less you use to cover the core the better. You want a very thin even spread across the core. I usually just put a small amount of it in the middle of the core and then place the HSF on top gently and work it around a bit to spread it out.

Since your getting a coppermine I suggest you use a tiny amount because of the small size of the core.

Mattwizz3

More questions, lol.

OK I got the P3 in the mail on Friday, attached it to the slotket, and snapped the socket 7 HSF right on it. Connected it to the board, booted up, no problems (well except one). It was recognized in the BIOS as a P3 700 MHz, but I heard that the OS is what reports the correct speed. The problem though is the socket 7 HSF just isn't going to work. The processor got real warm within the first 30 seconds of having it on. The processor is ok though; I unplugged the PC before damage could be done.

Here's what I was wanting to do. Until I can get enough to afford a regular socket 370 HSF, I was going to try to put a socket A HSF fan on it. At first, the clamps were too big to clamp onto the processor socket, but after spending alot of time bending the clamps just right I finally got the heatsink to snap right in onto the socket real snug and tight. After that I screwed a socket A CPU fan on top of the heatsink. The only problem with this is that the fan comes probably 0.10 centimeters or less from the memory chip. I mean it was a tight fit, but the fan spun freely. But I didn't feel comfortable with it. So here's what I did after that:

http://winsimple.x10hosting.com/ima...

Sorry it's blurry, but to me it's still easy to see. What I did was mount the fan on the side of the heatsink, with the fan facing up if the computer is on its side. This seemed to work fine the first 30 seconds I had it on. The processor hardly got warm. Would this work until I can get a S370 HSF or should I just wait? Thanks!

WinSimple Software

Ok, just scratch my above reply. I can't use the heatsink this way because if I do, the computer will turn on fine, but after about 5 seconds after I turn it on, the CPU fan (not sure if it's both the CPU fan AND the PS fan but I think it's the CPU fan only) drops to a lower speed and at this point it freezes right in the middle of the POST. The CPU is cold to the touch. I'm guessing that the processor has a way of detecting a heatsink and when it doesn't detect one, the whole thing just freezes and throttles back.

Since that heatsink idea is out, I decided to get my socket 7 heatsink back out again. This time, I removed the original socket 7 fan, and replaced it with a larger fan (same fan as in the picture by the way). The computer boots WITH ONLY the socket 7 HSF installed. Around 30 seconds after turning the system on, the CPU is warm, but not hot. I'm afraid to leave it on longer than that. Is this normal or should the processor still be cold after just 30 or so seconds? Thanks again. BTW, I've never messed with socket 370 processors once in my life until now, so I have no clue what the ideal temperature should be. I know P4's get warm pretty quick (never messed with them either), but not sure about the S370 P3's. I'm just experimenting until I can get enough dough to just buy a S370 HSF. I've already spent too much on this system, LOL.

WinSimple Software

If you can show me a pic of the old socket 7 HSF I'd be able to put in more helpful input. SOME socket 7 HSF's will be adequate with a decent fan however some of the older smaller ones definitely wont do. I'd say most P3's run in the high 30's (Celsius). Keep it around 45 or below if you can, 50 is pushing it and 60's instability will start. Also, have you used any thermal paste?

"I'm guessing that the processor has a way of detecting a heatsink and when it doesn't detect one, the whole thing just freezes and throttles back."

No such feature in the P3's, not really sure whats causing it. Probably the heatsink isnt mounted flat on the core of the CPU and its overheating. Be careful not to be putting any pressure on the core if the heatsink isnt flat on the core, otherwise you could chip the core and ruin the CPU.

Mattwizz3

Ok here are the pics you wanted. I can't figure out why my digital camera takes such blurry pictures, but maybe you can see it anyway. Let me say that you've been the most help than anyone else I've discussed this with!

http://winsimple.x10hosting.com/ima...

I need to buy thermal paste too. Does that mean that I won't be able to use this processor until I can get thermal paste and a standard HSF? Or will this HSF be adequate enough until then? Thanks.

WinSimple Software

Well, the retention clamp broke on that socket A heatsink, so I just broke down and bought a S370 HSF from the store for $12. Installed it and now I'm in shape. It works well. There is a nice speed increase but I'm not done with this system yet. I have a faster hard drive I want to put in. I hope to have this thing running on 512MB of RAM or more before I'm done. Thanks to jam, and most of all to Mattwizz3, I've learned so much from you both!!!!!

WinSimple Software

Nice to hear its working well. I'm guessing that the heatsink you bought came with a thermal pad already applied to the bottom of the HSF or with a tube of thermal paste. If not, you should still apply some.

Heh, looking at the heatsink you were using, yes it was very inadequate for a P3. Especially without any thermal paste.

If you do go for a faster hard drive you will notice a fair speed difference in loading programs and boot times, adding more RAM will add to this. You should note though, some older motherboards wont support more than 32GB hard drives without a BIOS update.

I have 2 80GB hard drives on my P3 and it goes real well. I've been considering a RAID setup for it too :P

Good work with the P3 anyways!

Mattwizz3

Yeah the Antec CPU Cooler I bought has a copper base and had some paste applied to the bottom of it.

Thankfully this system runs well on the 40GB hard drive I installed.

You can run a raid setup on your P3?

WinSimple Software

With a PCI Raid adapter. I think you can get cheap ones and some REALLY expensive ones. Mine is an old IDE ATA100 card. I had four identical Maxtor 4GB hard drives laying round so I set them up with a old RAID card I had. They were running as a single 12GB hard drive. It went pretty well and was much faster than using one of the drives by its self, was very noisy too.

I actually set that up on a 400MHz P2. Windows 98 was my only option because I had no drivers for the RAID card. Strangely Windows 98SE was able to install and run on the RAID card without any drivers, no other OS I tried would do the same.

Mattwizz3

"...was very noisy too."

LOL! Those old hard drives are LOUD!

That RAID setup sounds neat!

Now I have to worry about figuring out how to make the heat dissipate from that hard drive that I installed and I'll be set. I started another thread on that, but it looks like I'll have to shell out another $25 to get a hard drive cooler. Bummer!

WinSimple Software