It looks as if summer 2004 is a big year for new tech to come out. Right now i've got a decent xp2800/ddr333 system, but i've got the cash to upgrade so i'm looking around. But it looks as if now is not a good time to upgrade with all the new tech coming out. Theres DDR2 which is now making an appearance into the market, and PCI Express which will be coming out this summer. It looks like both of these items will need a mobo upgrade to use. So is it smart to upgrade to something like xp2500m/NF7-S/ddr433 or wait. I know that athlon64 and a64-FX will be the only amd cpus that will support ddr2. Or is now the time to make a switch to Intel, because the socket 478 won't go out of date for a very long time. So is it even worth upgrading now, or if I am should i upgrade to something with 800mhz or greater fsb (P4 or A64) so that I can maybe use ddr2. If someone knows about this stuff and could explain, that would be sweet. Is it even worth waiting and paying that much for 64bit cpus and ddr2, or just sticking to whats out now?
Thanks

Considering what you have, I'd say wait it out for a while...it's not like you're running a K6-2 or P2. What video card do you have & what type of computing are you into?

And what's this about the socket 478 not going out of date for a long time? Ask anyone who bought into the socket 423 if they made a good choice...lol! The socket 775 will be out soon...it will support PCI Express, DDR2, & probably the new Pentium 5

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040201/

I have a 9800np and i'm pretty much into all types of gaming and general computing. I looked at the site, i'm a little confused about FSB on some of these cpus. P4s say they have 800mhz, but its really 400mhz? And Athlon64s say they can go up to 1600mhz fsb, as its integrated into the chip. What does this all mean? Haha I didn't even hear about the socket 775 thats coming out. Owell, as i'm looking at these benchmarks, an xp3200 comes pretty close to an a64 3200 in gaming and whatnot, so whats all this extra cash for?

How does FSB on P4s, Athlon64, and A64-FX work at what do the mhz really mean is what i'm really asking. Like a P4 at 800mhz fsb, is that just dual channel ddr400?

I though PCI express was coming out sometime next year

AMD Athlon XP 3000+
512 DDR PC2700
BFGtech Geforce 5900XT (OC)
Core 470mhz
Memory 795mhz
160 gig HD
DVD+/-RW
CD/RW

"How does FSB on P4s, Athlon64, and A64-FX work at what do the mhz really mean is what i'm really asking."

Mhz confuses things. 800fsb really is run at 200mhz but one click tick results in 4 batches of bits to be sent, so it is exactly the same as if the clock was running at 800mhz. But even then, how many bits are being sent? The athlon64 has a 1600mhz hypertransport bus (which is really 800mhz in each direction), but those are 16-bit batches. Amd has allowed/encouraged/authored the misconception that the a64 has a 1600mhz fsb for marketing purposes. But there is no fsb on the a64.

To compare the three you need to look at peak bandwidth and practical bandwidth.

Say all you want to do is read in a bunch of data from memory. No writing at all.

On a p4 running dual channel memory you would get 800mhz x 128 bits, or 6.4GB/s

On an a64 running you would get 400mhz x 64 bits, or 1.6GB/s.

On an a64fx you would get 400mhz x 128 bits, or 3.2GB/s.

Now say you want to read and write at the same time. The amd numbers above each double, but the p4 is still stuck at 6.4GB/s since it cannot go both ways simultaneously.

"But the p4 is still in the lead", you might say. But no, practically the p4 is rarely in the lead and the reason is the waiting.

Say you have a two lane road with cars moving in each direction at 40mph. That's the a64. And another road where the cars have to share a one-lane bridge at 80mph. In the second case the speed of the cars is almost immaterial - its the fact they have to sit there and wait while cars go in the other direction that causes the real loss of throughput. This is what makes the a64 so good - the fact that waiting is being reduced. The start/stop delays when using a one-lane bridge are pretty big when traffic can otherwise move at the speed of light.

Right now in your superfast computer a few bits are in motion and a boatload of bits are sitting around waiting. The future of PCs is not more ghz, its less waiting. That's what pci-express brings, what hypertransport brings, what more cache on cpus bring, what the amd on-die memory controller brings. But unfortunately "Now less latency!" does not sell as well as "Now more ghz!".

Wow, that is exactly the kinda explination i was looking for. So you're pretty much saying that all this fsb mombojumbo is somewhat used as a marketing scheme. So you're saying that even though P4 says 800mhz, it really only takes pc3200@400fsb, but the info being sent is in a way able to reach 800mhz fsb at 6.4GB/s. But in an Athlon64, there is no ceiling to the fsb? So I could use how ever high ddrram I can get? And even though an A64 is only at 1.6GB/s, it can send data both ways as apposed to one way in P4's. So is it a good idea to buy an A64/socket 754 mobo now, or wait til things like DDR2 and PCI Express gets on motherboards. Or is there really not that big of a difference from an XP3200?

Thanks

Oya, and right now a P43.2ghz 800mhz and an A64 3200 are pretty close to the same price. But the A64's are better because the memory interface and other things make it faster, right?

"So is it a good idea to buy an A64/socket 754 mobo now, or wait til things like DDR2 and PCI Express gets on motherboards. Or is there really not that big of a difference from an XP3200? a P43.2ghz 800mhz and an A64 3200 are pretty close to the same price. But the A64's are better because the memory interface and other things make it faster, right?"

Those are all the right questions. But I have my dinner in front of me and do not want to make this long.

When amd and intel hit 1ghz it was commonly thought that this was a high as we needed. Like the first car that could go 100mph.

Intel as the market leader aimed at the trailing buyer segment, those who could be bought

Amd as the underdog aimed at the leading buyer segment, those who could be taught.

Intel made the speed demon. A cpu (and therefore a system) that had impressive numbers. If they made female robots, they would have called it the 36-24-36 special.

Amd made the braniac. A cpu (and therefore a system) that was better than its advertisement. If they made female robots, they would have called it the best long term choice among your many choices.

I made a post recently ranking the cpus being made right now and the a64 was on top. Its too much work to redescribe why.

Haha ok I understand, do you remember the name of the post?

So pretty much, your saying wait, until a64s really get optimized for the market, maybe end of this year, then go for the gold.

no not really. It will be quite a while before an nforce2 mobo with a mobile barton cpu is not the best value. The pentium M and a64 is for those who want the best and are willing to fund the xp value buyers by propping up manufacturer profits.

Good point.

Watching A64's, pci express, new video cards and higher speed memory hitting the streets is great sport.

Personally, I'd rather read the rss feeds on my old clunker for a year or so before I spend a dime.

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