lately i been disappointed at the amd athlons if you look at the forums in cpu section most of the problems are with amds. now i don't know if it's because so many more people have amd or if it's because they are more unstable then p4. personaly i think AMD's run better then intel and are cheaper. if you have any comments that would be great.

My personal experience favors P4's as I don't know anyone who's owned a P4 that has regretted buying it. I chose P4 over XP because they run cooler (so I didn't have to go through the hassle of getting a fancy heatsink/fan), overclock well, are stable, and excel at video editing and other content creation applications.

I've long noticed that most of my friends with computer problems are running XP's. And on various forums as well, it seems like a common theme, people having trouble with their AMD processors. It certainly doesn't help that for the last couple of years, the most viable motherboards available to AMD users were made by VIA. Feel free to argue with me.

Amd athlons and Intel pentium processors are the two most reliable computer components ever made except for metal cases. Every problem you have come across was not due to a processor. It was due to a motherboard, or perhaps a video card, or possibly a device driver.

Without question, the lower headache computer for the user who wants a hassle free computer is an intel, and intel and the makers of supporting equipment understand that this guy is their customer. Without question, the better price and better overclocking machine for the user who wants control over his machine is an amd, and amd and the makers of supporting equipment understand that this guy is their customer. Adding to amd's challenge is the fact that every vendor who wants to aim at the buyer who wants the very lowest price is going to make amd supporting equipment, such as pcchips and biostar and VIA and ecs. The above points that amd machines are more troublesome are mostly due to vendors like these. Amd processors fail about as often as intel processors, which is virtually never.

Over the years I have used both processors and I like them both. However, lately AMD has done some things that has caused, in my opinon, some marketing questions and made some changes in the XP that caused some stability problems. I will explain. First, I think it was a big mistake for AMD to push something as a 2000+ and the processor only puts out 1666. They got by with it because the 2000+ and all the other XP's are fast. But the bottom line is, the numbers are a lie. Just look on this site and you will see many confused novices thinking their computer BIOS has betrayed them by saying their processor is slower than they think it is. AMD's marketing people were wrong to do this. They have a good product and they did not need to play these number games to sell their XP. I know this to be true because my 1300 thunderbird smoked my daughters 1500 P3.

I have read on the net that AMD made a small frequency change to their XP processors. Some motherboard makers did not know this and from what I understand a BIOS update can not address this frequency change. Once again read around here on computing.net and you will see for yourself that there are many people who are having problems getting their new XP to work on their motherboard unless their motherboard is brand NEW. Like the guy above said: “it is not the processor but the other hardware that causes the problems”. On the other hand, if AMD can not communicate then there will continue to be stability issues for the XP processor.

The most stable processor AMD has right now is the Duron. It is cheap and fast for its price. I have a 1.3 I use for backup. Why? Because my Athlons have given me problems off and on.

Since the 80s I've always used Intel processors. I've only used one AMD based PC so far. I've used 8088s, 286s, 386s, Pentiums, Pentium 2s, Pentium 3s and my current Pentium 4 at 2.8 GHz. The one AMD PC was a K6-2 @ 300MHz. It wan't the best PC I've used. For starters, I had a P2 @ 233MHz with 32 MB of RAM, and it ran WAY faster than the AMD 300 with 128 MB of RAM!! Also, that AMD PC always would freeze, and really treat games nastily (in a bad way) vs. my P2.
Right now, a friend of mine has an AMD Athlon XP 1800+ that's causing him nothing but problems. He's had his PC down at the repair shop many times, once due to bad RAM, the three other times due to the CPU acting up. To date, I've never had a problem with my P4 @ 2.8GHz. It's handles all of my games and video editing like a star. If you ask me, Intel is the way to go.
Oh yeah, I'm not an Intel marketing agent: )

I am not sure what AMDs or P4s you have been using to compare these two products but, I have never experienced any of these problems. I own an Athlon XP 1800+ and it is VERY stable and runs relatively cool. It beast the pants off of every computer I know. (P4 2.4 for example). AMDs have proven themselves to be faster than the P4s in almost all benchmarks. (for example AMD 3000+ beats the 3.06 P4 in some tests and the 3000+ is clocked at 2.6Ghz or so.).

AMDs are cheaper than the P4s, how can you go wrong? far faster than their P4 counterpart, far cheaper, and from my experience run cooler.

I can't believe my poor eyes with all the AMD bashing. My oced athlon XP 1700+ is the most stable machine I've ever in my life placed my hands on, my school has celerons and p3s they are the slowest things I've ever seen. My mother's boss has a 1.7 P4, w/ 512 of RAM, mine runs faster and more stable and it is clocked at 1.613 GHz, their P4 starts to give them problems after running for 2 days, my athlon gives me no problems at all even when I had 256 MB of RAM instead of the 700. I know its not a even playing field but my P2 350 is evil compared to my athlon, the P2 crashes frequently, and has trouble w/ even running for 12 hours. I think the Athlons are some of the best CPUs that have ever been made, especially the ones built on the thourough bred core, I have a tbred-B, and I would never go back to another intel product in my entire life!

There are only two ways that a Athlon goes bad.

1) It overheats
2) You smash the core wile installing it

I like the Athlons better because they are so much cheaper. And they are just as fast and stable as p4's. And better for games!!!

I don't have to worry about the two troubles above because I have good cooling and I'm careful when installing them.

First I want to thank you folks so far for replying with thought, insight and not calling one another a dumb ass for your thoughts.

Now I've been using an AMD based CPU now for about 3 1/2 years and used nothing but Intel up till that point. I'm about to build another system around an AMD XP 1800+ and have no regrets about it.

As someone else has stated, if you are having computer problems it is not because you are using an AMD CPU. It is something else. I have close to 15yrs of experience as a computer tech and when it comes to CPU's, they either work properly or they don't. Of all the times I've ever had to replace a CPU the system was dead, would not boot, ect.

I've never replaced a CPU to resolve a BSOD or any type of software/hardware issue.

Someone said the best AMD CPU is the Duron. That made me laugh. If you want a crippled CPU, buy one. If you want poor performance, buy one. AMD uses there rating system for a reason and I have never ever had someone complain to me that the POST screen says this but I have purchased this CPU.

Someone else said their friend has had his system in the shop a few times because the CPU is acting up, this is 100% B/S the CPU is not acting up. There is a more underlying problem that is not being properly addressed. It is that simple.

When it comes to CPU's I use what is needed, be it AMD or Intel. Regardless, AMD CPU's are not causing wierd funky issues.

KTTD

God Bless Our Soldiers

excellent summary KTTD

KTTD,

Two years ago I would have said the very same thing you did about AMD. Many times (I am guilty of this too) when we write these comments we vioce our own personal experiences. As experts we can do homework and fish around on the Net to find ways to resolve issues we are having with our own computers or a costomers computer. However, I learned a long time ago that the average computer costomer does not know anything about computers. Did you know I have had people that did not even know how to turn their computer on? I am not talking about dumb people here. Can you image how intimidating that is? What is my point? About a year ago I had a Abit KT7A version 1.2 motherboard and read on the net, at that time, (Abit now knows about this problem) I could update to an XP processor. I had to find out the hard way that AMD made an ever so slight frequency change that Abits BIOS could not address. I need to keep this short so I wont tell you everything that happened. Anyway, I had to jump through major hoops to finely figure out a way to get my new XP processor to work. Any motherboard made after the release of the XP seems to work as smooth as a new waxed floor. Heaven help you if the motherboard was made before the release of the XP processor but could accommodate the thunderbird. As a computer expert I was able to read around and resolve my problems. However, can you image someone who is just trying to learn computer hardware, what they would be going through? I am sure that would be a very painful experience.

I am a person who beleaves in makeing the computer hardware compainies more responsible for their products. As soon as the said companies techs tell me that I got to completely dismantle my computer and remove all my cards to start troubleshooting for their wonderful product then it is time to pack that baby up and return it for a refund. If more people did that instead of speending hours tweeking then I beleave we would see more stable hardware on the market.

The bottom line is AMD has lost some of my respect. At one time I thought they were the best thing that ever happened to the computer industry. They put pressure on Intel to bring down their prices and AMD gave Intel competition and that is a good thing. Nevertheless, I do not like being tricked with numbers nor do I like jumping through hoops because of a change they made but failed to comunatite with everyone about.

That is my take on this. Hope that I did not offend anyone.

Navyretire,

First, I will never call myself as an expert, guru, etc. I know a great deal about computers but one can never know it all and anyone that states they are a computer expert is a fool. That is not a personal attack, just my honest opinion and to note. That if I thought your post was offensive, I would have removed it. It's good to be the moderator :)

Now, till your points. What you had happen over a year ago is mute in today’s computing world in my opinion. Yes, flaws will happen but that is the nature of this game. If someone is new to this game, they will have to learn things the hard way, which is trial and error. It is how I learned and how everyone should learn.

Computers are not simple things and when it comes to troubleshooting a real life hardware or software problem most people don't know where to start for good reason, lack of experience and by holding hardware or software companies responsible for this is absurd.

Almost anyone can build a computer, almost anyone can add a hard drive or CD-ROM, etc. But when it comes to fixing a computer, a lot of folks lack these skills and it is because these types of skills must be gained over a period of time from doing, not reading or holding a company at fault for making a mistake.

If you are going to take on fix and resolving a computer problem yourself make sure you understand what you are getting into. I do not work on my own car because I can't. I do not because it is not what I have a vast amount of experience with. I could change my own oil but I won't. I will pay someone else to do it but I don't state the problem is with the makers of autos and they should be held accountable for their actions because I can't do a simple task.

People think computers should be as easy as turning on the water. Sorry folks, that is not how it works in the computer world. Computers are very complicated things and like anything else complicated they take time to learn and understand.

As far as your stance on AMD's CPU rating system. Deal with it, it is here to stay and they are not giving you false information. They are giving you a performance rating and nothing more. They do tell you what the CPU does run at in MHZ and you are the only person I've heard of to date to complain about this. So they are not lying in anyway.

My opinion, my thoughts.

KTTD

God Bless Our Soldiers

KTTD,

First, there is nothing I like more than a good, clean, fun debate. As soon as a person , or persons starts slinging mud and calling each other names then there is no debate, only name calling by immature people. So thanks for the mature response.

Anyway, I over stepped my bounds when I called myself an expert. I know by reading this site that there are many people out there who know a lot more than me. I agree with you on this point.

I do have one important point I am very strong about and totally disagree with you on. That is, making these hardware companies more responsible for their products. Case in point. I bought a sound card some time back. After installing it, my computer would not work.. It would not boot and to make a long story short the company tech wanted me to start removing cards to find the problem. Maybe to you that is expectable but to me it is not. I truly believe that there is a mind set in the computer community that accepts poor quality assurance in hardware and software. The number of security holes in a major software companies OS is totally inexcusable, (you know who I am talking about here) just the same way it is inexcusable to expect me to brake my computer down to parade rest (a military term for totally disassembling something) to make a sound card work. Yes I realize that we do need to go in to our computers and make changes. But I am rubbed the wrong way by companies, AMD included, who think they can sell me something for two hundred dollars + or - and then I must spend hours resolving conflict issues or downloading software security fixes. I noticed that you support our boys fighting the war and that is great. So lets give them M-16’s but tell them they got to take apart the gun and troubleshoot the trigger first before they can use it. It is the same thing, the only difference is your mind is set to except it when it comes to computers.