Hello,

I currently have a computer with a Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz w/ HTT processor. I have been using this machine for over a year and I am interested in getting an AMD to replace it. My friend bought an AMD Sempron 2800+ 2.0GHz processor recently and said it is pretty good.

Do you guys feel that an AMD Sempron 2800+ 2.0GHz will out perform a p4 3.2 w/ HTT? My machine is mostly used for workstation stuff (Office applications) and programming (notepad or dreamweaver). However I do enjoy a good game once in a while (Currently use a ATI Radeon 9200SE Diamond Stealth GFX card but I am planning soon on dualing it up with a Chaintech GeForce FX 5200 GFX Card and making the 5200 as the main card). Games I play are World of Warcraft, Call of Duty 2, Halo and some other high demand games. Once in a while I do run applications that can apply stress such as Adobe Photoshop CS2 or 3d modeling programs such as Sketchup and getting Solid Works soon.

In this topic, http://www.computing.net/cpus/wwwbo... in the 4th reply it states "A 2600+, even though it runs at 1.6GHz, it roughly equivilent to a 2.6GHz P4" My guess is that a 2.0GHz amd may be equivilent to a 3.2GHz p4 but I want an official word.

Also, does anyone know of any good websites that compare AMD to Intel processors? Only websites I managed only compared slow intel processors to AMD (such as celerons. ewwww!)

And last but not least, could anyone recommend a good AMD processor that is much better at what I need than a n Intel P4 3.2 w/ HTT? My guess is something like an AMD Athlon 64 FX?

CRAP! Just realized I entered my name while regestering =/ Anyone know how I can get that fixed?

Thanks in advance,
robodude666

Hey,

Sorry for double post. I forgot to add the specs on the AMD processor.

Specs on AMD:
Core Thoroughbred
Multi-Core Single-Core
Name Sempron 2600+
Operating Frequency 1.833GHz
FSB 333MHz
L1 Cache 64KB+64KB
L2 Cache 256KB
Process Type 0.13 µm
64 bit Support No
Hyper-Transport Support No
Virtualization Technology Support No
Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, 3DNOW! Professional
Voltage 1.6V

P.S. I think I fixed my name. Option in settings.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

First the subject was AMD Sempron 2800+ 2.0GHz, then it mysteriously morphed into a Sempron 2600+. Eitherway, those AMD Semprons were meant to compete with the low budget Celeron Ds from intel with the exception on the S754 Sempron64.

To answer your question, it'll be a real dumb move on your part, to go from a 3.2GHz P4 to the Sempron 2600+ or Sempron 2800+.

If you are compelled to do a complete upgrade, stick with Intel & go for the Core 2 Duo.

The 2600+ you have listed looks like it is a Socket A Sempron, which means they have stopped making them. Also I have a 2600+ Socket A Sempron and even at 2.2GHz I doubt that it is as good as a 3.2GHz P4. Maby as good as a 2.8Ghz Possibly 3GHz P4 but socket A is fairly slow and pretty old. OH, please dont waste your money on a FX5200. They are rubbish and really not a big step up from the 9200SE. If you are on a tight budget go for at least a 9600PRO like this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

But it would be better to go for a x1600pro... OH and I took a guess that you have AGP.. Both the FX5200 and the 9200SE dont come in PCI-E 16X but they do both come in standard PCI and AGP, I hope you have AGP.

Mattwizz3 : )

Sempron 2600+ @ 2.2GHz
1Gb DDR400
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
200GB SATA / 80Gb IDE
256Mb MSI 6800 Ultra

Thanks for the reply.

I am sorry, I had a few windows open and copied the wrong specs. Here are the ones for the 2800:

Core Thoroughbred
Multi-Core Single-Core
Name Sempron 2800+
Operating Frequency 2.0GHz
FSB 333MHz
L1 Cache 64KB+64KB
L2 Cache 256KB
Process Type 0.13 µm
Vista Ready Yes
64 bit Support No
Hyper-Transport Support No
Virtualization Technology Support No
Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, 3DNOW! Professional
Voltage 1.6V

But I want to get away from intel. I really want my machine to run on an AMD. Plus a Core 2 Duo will cost around $400-600. For $300 I can get an AMD Athlon 64 FX-55 which I hear is pretty darn good. OR $500 for a FX-60 w/ dual core. Either way, right now I can't afford to pay so much for a processor. I only have $160 but do not wish to spend it all. (I am saving for a new case, and servos for my humanoid robot project.)

Guess I will stay with my p4 for now.

Thanks for your help,
robodude666

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

Hey,

Quick reply Mattwizz3. Didnt notice yours.

As I stated above, I posted the specs for the wrong processor. And I am not spending my money on a FX 5200. I already have one. My cousin gave me his because he couldnt get it to work right on his computer. My current card is 128mb and this one is 256 so should be an ok upgrade.

The 9200SE is a PCI card and the 5200 is a AGP. I am not sure if I have a AGP actually. I might have a PCIe which will work as AGP I believe.

-robodude666

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

As Matt pointed out, the FX5200 is "rubbish and really not a big step up from the 9200SE". Regardless of whether you got it for free or not, it's a low end piece of crap (probably why you got it for free). You need to know what slot type you have to work with before looking for a new card. I highly doubt you have PCI-Express & you may not even have AGP. How about posting the make/model of your motherboard?

You don't need a new CPU...besides, to switch to AMD, you'd need a new motherboard AND CPU (at least) & socket A CPUs like the Sempron & AthlonXP are long outdated. Simply put, your P4 is superior.

If better gaming is what you're looking for, simply upgrade your video card.

"Plus a Core 2 Duo will cost around $400-600"

The above is not entirely true.

The Core 2 Duo comes in different classes and right now ZipZoomfly has a retail E6300 for $188.00 shipped to your door & that CPU overclocked with stock cooling even outperforms an FX-62 from AMD.

Odds are your current motherboard does not support it, if that was not the case that would have been the way to go, even though you'll still have to upgrade your video card and maybe the PSU too, but you can always rob a bank to buy those two if you are that desperate ;-)

Well, I don't really want to overclock my CPU. It creates lots of heat that could be avoided. It is not very good to overlock unless you have a liquid cooled system. Plus I do not have the money for it. If I plan on buying an expensive CPU, I might aswell save up and get a good AMD. And as I said before I want an AMD, not an Intel.

If the FX5200 is not a big step, then couldn't I just dual them and run two gfx cards? Running dual gfx cards can be a lot better than running a single great expensive card.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

Sorry for double post. You guys think that:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 2.0GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache
is better than a p4 3.2 w/ htt? I found it on newegg.com for $152 shipped. Heres the link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

No one can force you to buy anything or nothing, all we can do is provide you with factual & valuable information, so that you can ultimately make an informed decision whenever and with whatever you are planning to do.

With that said, this is perhaps the worst time to make a switch from Intel to an AMD based system, for anyone contemplating a system overhaul and that is a fact.

If you feel that you are done with Intel or you've just developed a strong affinity for AMD - there's nothing wrong with that at all. However, you shouldn't use the excuse of wanting to save money by getting an excellent price vs performance setup as the backbone of you logic.

Thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it all. This is the first place where I got answers this fact and to my AMD/intel problems.

I think that I will wait a few months or until I have like $400 to spend and I will upgrade my whole system! Raidmax Sagitta case, new gfx card, AMD Athlon 64 X2 processor and maybe a Liquid cooling system (to overclock the cpu :P) Oh, and can't forget a lot of cathode lights!!

I found some nice deals on ebay for about $200 for cpu and motherboard. Case is about $90 and LC system is about $120.

Once again, thanks. And does anyone know if the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 2.0GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache processor I linked to above is any good and if it is better than a p4 3.2 w/ htt.

Once again, thanks a lot guys :D

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

You better add a good PSU to that list because the stock PSU in that Raidmax Sagitta case is not going to be adequate enough in terms of rail voltages & spec.

I actually still have the same PSU in a closet here, it came with my Raidmax case when I built my AXP system a few years back. I have since sold that AXP components but kept & still use the Raidmax case with my main S754 rig. However, I've got a 500W dual rail BlueMax from Fortron running in that system.

robo,

I think you really need to do some research. Going from a P4 3.2Ghz w/HTT to an AMD Sempron 2800+ 2.0GHz is a definite downgrade.

"I don't really want to overclock my CPU. It creates lots of heat that could be avoided. It is not very good to overlock unless you have a liquid cooled system."

Once a manufacturing process is "perfected", all CPUs based on the same core are basically the same. For example, an Athlon 64 3000+ 1.8GHz Venice ($64) is virtually identical to an Athlon 64 3800+ 2.4GHz Venice ($109)...the only difference is the default multiplier. It's simply not cost effective to have separate production lines for 3000+, 3200+, 3500+, 3800+, etc...it's much cheaper to produce just a single CPU & assign different multipliers. With the right motherboard, you *should* be able to run the 3000+ at 2.4GHz (or close to it) without having to take any extreme cooling measures & quite possibly without having to raise the CPU voltage. So although technically you're overclocking, in a way, you're not overclocking because the CPU is actually capable of running at the overclocked speed in the 1st place. Does that make sense?

Many of the single core CPUs on the market today are actually dual core CPUs with one core disabled. Intel has abandoned single core production altogether...they've decided it's cheaper to have a dual core production line only, rather than running both a single core production line & a dual core production line...they just disable one core & they "create" a single core CPU. I believe AMD is beginning to do the same thing because many of the A64 3700+ San Diego single core CPUs available today are actually X2 4400+ Toledo dual core CPUs with one core disabled. There is no way to re-enable the disabled core.

The important thing to know when building any system is what components work best together. If you select a good CPU & then install it on a crappy motherboard (SiS comes to mind), you're gonna have a crappy system. Or if you have a good CPU & good board, then install a crappy video card (FX5200 comes to mind), you're gonna have a crappy gaming system. But if you choose the right board, CPU, RAM, video card, PSU, HDD, etc that all "compliment" each other, you'll have a good performing/reliable system that will beat most store-bought systems & will be much easier to upgrade in the future.

Take your time, read up on current technology, read the hardware reviews, find out what works best with what, & ask questions...in a short time, you should be able to separate the bad from the good & assemble yourself a decent system.

Hey,

I didn't know Sempron or Athlon XP were not as good as a p4 3.2ghz... I don't know much about AMDs because I have been using intels for my whole life. But now I know that these are not that fast processors.

I have a few power supplies around the house though I think they are in the 240-300W range. But I will get a better power supply. Especially if I get a great gfx card that requires a high watt power supply.

"For example, an Athlon 64 3000+ 1.8GHz Venice ($64) is virtually identical to an Athlon 64 3800+ 2.4GHz Venice ($109)...the only difference is the default multiplier."

So, pretty much your paying an extra $40 for a higher multiplier? Or a higher range of multipliers? I know you can't overclock a 1ghz processor to go at like 3ghz because that would create lots of heat and might shorten the life of the processor. What is the recommended limit to overclock a cpu? Would it be safe to overclock a 2ghz X2 to go at 3ghz?

Also, how do you distinguish a good motherboard/powersupply/gfx card from just the specs? I know the more watts a powersupply has the better. What about motherboards? Does this all follow the "higher prices = better product" rule? (which apparently doesnt exist anymore).

I guess a $20 motherboard is worse than a $80 one.. No matter how crappy the $80 one is.

Well, anyways.. Thanks again. I will readup on technology these days.

-robodude666

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

"So, pretty much your paying an extra $40 for a higher multiplier? Or a higher range of multipliers? I know you can't overclock a 1ghz processor to go at like 3ghz because that would create lots of heat and might shorten the life of the processor. What is the recommended limit to overclock a cpu? Would it be safe to overclock a 2ghz X2 to go at 3ghz?"

If you really want to overclock, then you need better cooling than stock. As jam pointed out whole batch of CPU can be the same where as the Athlon 64 3000+ has lower multiplier than 3800+ but same core. For example, my CPU is P4 506 2.66ghz that has 133x20 setting. This CPU cost around $100 and can be overclock to 4Ghz 200x20 with a good cooler for $50, so the total is $150. If I want to buy the P4 570 3.8Ghz 200x19, then the price will be above the $400 range at the time I bought it. If I can spend $150 for a 4Ghz CPU, why waste my time on the 3.8 for $250 more? Yes overclocking produce more heat and if you buy a better cooler and stay below the max Vcc recommand by the manufacture, there is nothing to worry about if the system remains 100% stable. I have 2 other friends also have the P4 506 CPU o/c 4Ghz that ran for half years now trouble free. All using the same heatsink Tt cl-p0024...

TMP-Man

Asus P5P800-SE PAT
P4 506 @ 4009Mhz 1.3625v
Thermaltake CLP0024 w/ 1700RPM 92MM + AS5
2GB OCZ 2-3-2-5 DDR400
120GB/300GB 7200RPM HD
MSI 6600GT AGP 565/1100 VF700 ALCU AS5

You really need to do some research. Here's a few facts that will probably confuse you:

- the socket A Sempron IS an AthlonXP

- the Athlon64 doesn't have a FSB

- overclocking doesn't necessarily cause "lots of heat"

- you cannot judge a PSU based solely on wattage. A 500W PSU isn't necessarily better than a 350W PSU.

- a $20 board isn't necessarily bad & an $80 board isn't necessarily good.

"I didn't know Sempron or Athlon XP were not as good as a p4 3.2ghz... I don't know much about AMDs because I have been using intels for my whole life. But now I know that these are not that fast processors."

You must be confusing Intel's prior higher GHz approach for performance, even though AMD processors were known to run at a lower clock speed, they actually outperformed Intel at those higher clock speeds.

Infact that's the reason AMD started using the "PR" (Performance Rating) nomenclature for their CPUs. Afterall their CPUs offered better performance clock for clock against Intel's because they could carry out more IPC (instructions per clock cycle).

If they did not, they leave themselves very vulnerable to the ignorant logic deployed by many CPU and computer buyers when they compare Intels GHz to AMD's. For example an AXP (Athlon XP) 3200+ processor from AMD only runs at 2.2GHz but its 3200+ PR rating implies a performance comparable to that of a 3.2GHz P4 & and in reality it would outperform a 3.2GHz P4 in almost every task, even some of the lower clocked P4’s were being beaten by Pentium 3’s in certain applications.

FYI. The last 3 years Intel has actually been behind AMD in terms CPU performance and had they not dropped the Netburst architecture and subsequently introduced the Conroe (Core 2 Duo) CPUs just recently, they'd still be behind AMD.

I'll put it in a more subtle way, the words slower and AMD usually never appeared in the same sentence until a couple months ago.

LOL! from p4 to AMD Sempron? its like from p4 to celeron. i think AMD Sempron is the same class as celeron. if you wanna go from P4 to AMD, consider AMD Athlon or AMD 64.

Hey,

TMP-Man. Thanks for clearing up a few things. With the money you save by overclocking a CPU with a lower default multiplier, you can spend it on a better cooling system such as a $150 LC system. :P

Jam, I know that watts arent the only thing. But I couldn't find other features that would make a power supply better or worse than another. And yes, I never said a $80 is good. I saw some really bad ones that were really expensive and I saw some really cheap ones that were pretty good.

"The last 3 years Intel has actually been behind AMD in terms CPU performance."

Yup, I knew that. Thats one of the reasons why I want to get an AMD. Their technology is pretty darn good. I read an article in a newspaper a few months back that Intel has estimated they will gain 10% less profit this year than the previous years.

I was just on the AMD website and they have a lot of nice pdfs with benchmarks and comparisons to intel processors. Turns out the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ is 10% higher overall in performance compared to the Intel Pentium D 940. A PD 940 I understand is a 3.2ghz processor and is a lot better than a P4 3.2... So if an AMD X2 3800+ us 10% higher overall performance than that processor, it will be a good upgrade for me.

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I wrote the whole msg and got carried away at newegg.com looking for motherboards. So far I found these 3 motherboards that I feel are good.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

They are in the order (top to bottom) most to least "good". What do you guys feel? The first one has a pretty good rating and it seems to have everything that I need... It doesn't have an AGP but it has a PCI Express x16 which will work ok for AGP cards. I know not all AGP cards support PCI Express x16 and I know that PCI Express x16 doesn't allow for the AGP's full power but its better than sticking with a PCI card, right?

If not, then the second motherboard on the list will do the job. Its rating is not as high but it has AGP and everything else I need.

Can you guys just give me a small list of what makes up a good motherboard, power supply and GFX card?

Thanks a million,
robodude666
I agree, there should be an edit feature.

Dude, you really need to sit down & do your homework. You're just not getting it.

It pains me to say this because I'm a diehard AMD guy, but Intel makes the fastest CPUs currently available. Nothing AMD makes comes close. Do some reading on the Core 2 Duo & the upcoming Core 2 Quadro:

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/ind...

And unless you're gonna overclock to the extreme, water cooling is just a waste of money. Since it costs $100+, it would make more sense to invest that money in a better CPU & either don't overclock it at all, or just overclock it moderately using air cooling.

As for the motherboards you selected, I wouldn't suggest any one of them...plus the order is incorrect. The nForce4 Ultra is the best of the bunch, but most people here probably wouldn't recommend BIOSTAR.

If you insist on an AMD S939 system, get a CPU that has 1MB L2 cache. If you go with single core, get the 3700+ San Diego...if you want dual core, get the X2 4400+ Toledo.

Get a motherboard based on the nForce4 Ultra or nForce4 SLi chipset. DFI is making the best boards for the S939, but ASUS & MSI are a couple of other good manufacturers.

Get a PSU that has at least 400W & conforms to the ATX12V 2.x standard. It should have dual +12v rails of 18A each & preferrably one large cooling fan underneath. Look for PSUs from Antec, Enermax, FSP (Fortron), Sparkle, Thermaltake. Plan on spending at least $50 for a decent one.

"It doesn't have an AGP but it has a PCI Express x16 which will work ok for AGP cards."

You need to learn the difference between PCI, AGP, & PCI-Express. An AGP card will NOT work in a PCI-E slot.

Hmm... Getting a
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2.2GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor
instead of a
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 2.0GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor
is only $83 more expensive and the Toledo core is better than Manchester. There is more cache and the 4400+ can be overclocked to 2.4GHz I believe and still use a stock fan.
Paying $83 for a processor with more cache and easier to overclock to 2.4 is worth it counting that the liquid cooling system I am interested in costs about $150.

I will read that website and look for another motherboard later.

Speaking of PSUs I looked around and found this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...
It has +12V@35A which is good I believe since you said 18A? and it has 3 fans + LEDs!

"You need to learn the difference between PCI, AGP, & PCI-Express. An AGP card will NOT work in a PCI-E slot."

Really? Guess I was misinformed.

From Wikipedia:
"The higher speeds on PCI Express allow it to replace almost all existing internal buses, including AGP and PCI..."
URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

No, Aspire PSUs suck & that one doesn't conform to the ATX12V 2.x standard. It only has a single +12v rail & it has 2 smaller cooling fans, which means more noise.

Here's an example of what you should be looking for:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

"Really? Guess I was misinformed."

Like I said, you need to read up on this stuff. PCI-E slots are physically different than AGP or standard PCI. PCI cards go in PCI slots, AGP cards go in AGP slots, & PCI-E cards go in PCI-E slots...they are NOT interchangeable.

I am 100% sure these are AMAZING motherboards!! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...
Am I correct? There is no AGP slot so I would need to get a card for PCI Express x16. Where are all the parallel and serial ports? I would need to get a slot for those? Well, I have a spare one so I don't mind.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/12...

"I am 100% sure these are AMAZING motherboards!!"

Well, you'd be wrong again. The 2nd one is a good one, but it's awfully pricey. The nForce4 SLi chipset is no faster than the nForce4 Ultra...the only thing it offers is SLi (Scalable Link Interface) which is a way of linking two PCI-E video cards together to "theoretically" double the video performance. It's usually more cost effective to get a single video card than two in SLi. And if you do go for SLi, you'd need to get an SLi certified PSU...& they are roughly double the cost.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

jam, that website was helpful. And I can't use those motherboards... They don't support X2 which is what I am planning on getting. The FX processors at newegg are like $300+ and not in my budget any time soon.

Is SLI the only way to link two cards together to double the performance? SLI cards are pricy and so is the board + $90 power supply.

Oh yea, I made a mistake in the beginning. I have the FX5500 NOT the 5200! Here is the link to the geforce card I have:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...
Is that any better?

I searched and searched and couldn't find any better of a PSU or motherboard...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...
any good? Or let me guess... its also bad?

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

That board is based on the plain vanilla nForce4...you should get one based on the nForce4 Ultra.

What's wrong with the DFI boards that I posted links to above? They BOTH support the X2. Don't just go by newegg's description, go to the DFI website & check the specs. The direct link is included in the newegg description...just click on "Manufacturer's Site"

How much money do you have to spend? You sure seem to be shooting for the high end...why aren't you looking at socket AM2? Regardless, no matter how much money you throw at this AMD system, it will never be as fast as an Intel Core 2 Duo system.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.h...

"Oh yea, I made a mistake in the beginning. I have the FX5500 NOT the 5200!"

The FX5500 is better than the FX5200, but the FX series never really was all that good to begin with. nVidia has already progressed thru the GF6 series & is currently in the GF7 series. You should be looking at PCI-E cards anyway, not AGP.

Something tells me this OP is very likely to botch this overall & end up wasting the little money he's got saved.

Hey OP, maybe you should halt, leave your system as it is and keep saving up until you are really ready for a complete build. The components are not going anywhere you know - odds are, you'll have enough to spend and also end up with a faster & better rig at that time.

Thanks jam!! That is the type of thing I have been looking for! A chart that compares the performance of intel and AMD CPUs.

Maybe I won't get a AMD that is as good as the best Core 2 Duo but I can get an AMD that is better than my P4 3.2GHz or better than the worst Core 2 Duo. The AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Windsor is pretty good and it could be overclocked to a 4800+ I think.

I totally forgot about the AM2 socket! The X2 4400+ Windsor is an AM2 socket actually and it looks better than the 3800+ 939.

I thought the description on the newegg website were correct. I guess I should be looking at socket instead of what CPUs are supported.

I will look for more PCI Express cards. But a lot of the good cards are like over $100. And for more motherboards. DFI makes only 2 AM2 motherboards? Is this one good?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...
Its got a NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra chipset and 4gb ram and a good amount of Expansion Slots.

I am saving up until I can afford all this. I just like to think everything through. I probably won't be buying anything for another few months (Getting paid $1,000 in feb/march).

Thanks for the help though.

Maybe I am asking for too much, but what CPU, MB, PSU and GFX card would work good together? Or as Jam said, would "compliment" each other the most? (But isn't expensive)

-robodude666

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

I'm gonna have to throw another wrench in the works. If you decide to go with a socket AM2 system, you shouldn't be looking at boards based on the nForce4. Instead, you should be looking at boards based on the nForce 500 series. The nForce 550 is the budget chipset, then there's nForce 570 Ultra & 570 SLi, & at the high end there's the nForce 590 SLi. I suggest a board based on the nForce 570 Ultra.

All of the nForce 500 series motherboards cost over $80. The 570 Ultra ones are around $100. Is that normal for the 5xx series?

I have a new question. If I get a motherboard that supports SLI? Do I need to get an SLI GFX card? And, if I get a motherboard and gfx card that support SLI but not use the SLI feature, do I need a PSU that supports SLI?
Also, is SLI the only way to link multiple gfx cards togehter to increase your gfx performance?
I agree, there should be an edit feature.

"All of the nForce 500 series motherboards cost over $80. The 570 Ultra ones are around $100. Is that normal for the 5xx series?"

Yup, that's normal. But a decent S939 nF4 Ultra card like the DFI LANPARTY sells for about $100-125 too.

"If I get a motherboard that supports SLI? Do I need to get an SLI GFX card?"

If you just run a single card, it can be either ATI or nVidia. If you wanna run 2 cards in SLi, they MUST be nVidia cards. ATI does NOT support SLi (ATI's technology is called Crossfire). You wouldn't necessarily *have* to get a card that supports SLi, but if for some reason you wanted to run SLi in the future, you'd have to dump the non-SLi card & buy two more cards that support it. (Cha-Ching!) IMO, running SLi is a waste of money. How much gaming/graphics power do you really need? Is it worth it to have to buy a more expensive motherboard, two expensive video cards, & a more expensive PSU just to get a few more FPS? Do you actually think your eyes can tell the difference between 58FPS & 69FPS?

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graph...

Yup, I know. SLI is nvidia and crossfire is ATI.

Well, in a FPS game or MMORPG it is not hard to notice a difference of 10fps. In other games it might be a bit harder to. But it isnt that great of an improvement.

Well, I am saying if I buy a motherboard and gfx card that both support SLI do I need to get a powersupply that supports SLI? I don't think I will be because 2 video cards only increase the FPS by like 5-50% Say you get 2 cards that cost $150 each. You will then pay 2x the amount of $ for only 50% increase where if you pay for a $300 card you can get like a full 100% increase in FPS. Can't find the page but on tom's hardware there is a chart which shows most of the time there isnt much of an increase in FPS when you use SLI but A BIG increase if you just buy 1 card thats better. I was just wondering... Thats all.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

"Can't find the page but on tom's hardware there is a chart which shows most of the time there isnt much of an increase in FPS when you use SLI but A BIG increase if you just buy 1 card thats better."

Uhhhh, try clicking on the link at the bottom of my last post

No, thats not it. I can't find the page, i will look for it later.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

The Tom's site I listed above is interactive...you can choose the two cards you wanna put "head to head" & select the game or application that you wanna compare the results to.

I chose the 7800GT vs 2 x 7800GT SLi using the game PREY @ 1024 x 768. The results are in BLUE

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I know that, but there was another page on tom's site. Its a chart with the different SLI cards and their performance single and dualed.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

whatever....

Found it!
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12...

Also, would you guys recommend any cards in the 7300 or 7600 series? I saw some good ones for under $100.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

Sorry for double post. Turns out the 7300 series is bad but the 7600 is ok. The Leadtek PX7600 GT Geforce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card looks really good.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...
$163 but still a good card. Comes with 2 free games if I understand correct.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

You are a very intelligent human being. First of all, I never read pc mag or any hardware mag in my life. Mostly everything I learned is from this forum and other wonderful hardware forums which have nice people who are willing to help. Not @$$holes like you. Second, I don't spend my time around geek squad nor have I ever seen them at best buy. Third, I don't even go to best buy. Oh, forth, only noobs bump dead topics.

Cheers mate,
robodude666

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

"Not @$$holes like you"

Was that directed at me?

If you happened to notice, 15 out of the 40+ posts in this thread were from me...all of them trying to help. But it became obvious to me (& the others) that you are clueless & won't follow the advice you're given anyway. Sabertooth bailed out in response #30 & I should have joined him.

BTW, there is no bumping in this forum. Nice try though...lol!

Nope, that reply was directed to a reply which has been deleted. And was NOT directed to any of you. I am thankful for all of your help and I did follow sabertooth's advice. I decided to spend a little bit more money to get a better upgrade. I am going to be going with:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (or 4000+ for extra L2 cache) Socket AM2 CPU (overclocking to 3GHz)
DFI LANparty UT NF590 SLI-M2R/G NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP MotherBoard
ENERMAX Liberty ELT500AWT Power supply (might get higher wattage)
eVGA 7600GT 256MB video card
still haven't picked out ram but it will be 2GB of DDR2 667 or 800
Probably going to use stock sound card from motherboard or a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic card

Thats a pretty good system, eh?

Once again, thank you all for your help. I have learned many things from you. That previous post was NOT at all directed to any of you. It was directed to a user whos post was deleted.

Cheers,
robodude666

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

"Thats a pretty good system, eh?"

It's an OK system...far from great.

Well, better than a sempron :P and my current one. Plus, I said "pretty good" not "great" :)

I would get a 7900 but I can't afford one.. And I am getting AM2 to get ready for quad core. And thats the only AM2 590 DFI motherboard =/

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

I would have gone with a 570 Ultra board, a better CPU w/1MB L2, & this video card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

Maybe I will go with a
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...

The X2 3800+ does have 1MB L2 cache. Or is 2x 512 different from 1x 1MB?

I would love to get a great video card like that but I sadly can not afford one yet. After DX10 comes out, the DX9 cards will be cheaper and maybe I will upgrade then. Till then, a 7600 is all I can afford.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

Why do you insist on an SLi board? Do you really plan to run two video cards? Why bother when one good card is *usually* cheaper & faster? The card I posted a link to is *only* $175 (after rebate) & blows away the 7600GT. And in most tests, it beats 2 x 7600GT SLi. How much is the 7600GT gonna cost?

When you look at the L2 cache on a dual core CPU, you have to consider each core separately. Having 2 x 512k doesn't mean 1MB...it means you have 2 cores, each with 512k. Remember that more often than not, your dual core CPU is gonna perform more like a single core CPU, so depending on the application, you can expect performance similar to a 3200+ Orleans.

"And I am getting AM2 to get ready for quad core"

There will be a new socket AM2+ coming soon along with Hypertransport v3.0 for the Quad-core CPU. From what I've read, the AM2+ will be a "transitional" socket until the AM3 w/DDR3 support is released. Many hardware sites suggest that 4-cores will be of no benefit to gaming anyway. PCI-E v2.0 is not far off either.

"After DX10 comes out, the DX9 cards will be cheaper and maybe I will upgrade then"

Microsoft was actually gonna drop DirectX from the terminology & call the new program interface "Windows Graphic Foundation" (WGF)...apparently they've backed off & are sticking with DX10. Windows Vista will ship with DX10 but it will not be backwards compatible with DX9, DX8, etc in a true sense...instead, there will be some type of software emulation/compatibility mode.

Sorry, never finished my thought above....

What I was getting at is if you plan on upgrading to Vista & want the best possible gaming experience, you're gonna need a DX10 video card.

"Why do you insist on an SLi board? Do you really plan to run two video cards? Why bother when one good card is *usually* cheaper & faster? The card I posted a link to is *only* $175 (after rebate) & blows away the 7600GT. And in most tests, it beats 2 x 7600GT SLi. How much is the 7600GT gonna cost?"

True a 7900 is cheaper than 2x 7600 (infact a 7950 is cheaper still I think.) (um yea. 2x 7600 will cost me $312 while 1x 7950 will cost $290-310. However, I will buy only 1 7600 and then might buy a second later.. Or buy one 7600 then a DX10 7900 or something like that) and it does give much better performance than dual 7600, like 2-3x the FPS... I honestly don't know why I was sticking to SLI the whole time. I guess I will head over to newegg and see what non-sli motherboards they have. 570 ultra you say? Il take a look.

I look at the price of an item of what I will pay at checkout, not after rebate. If I only have 300$ and an item costs 350$ before rebate I can't buy it. You get me? If I had a credit card, then maybe... Till then I cant :(

Well, NewEgg doesn't have the x2 w/ 2x 1MB cache :( unless I get a 4800 which costs $250 ($80 more than the 3800)...

Wait, sorry.. I am not understanding the AM2+ socket thing... So AMD has postponed the release of AM3 and will release AM2+ for quadcore which will mean AM2 won't be used for quadcore and its rather pointless to get an AM2 in order to prepare for quadcore?

"Many hardware sites suggest that 4-cores will be of no benefit to gaming anyway."

Yea, but you get bragging rights and also it will help with multitasking. You could play games while doing other stuff and get less lag.

"Microsoft was actually gonna drop DirectX from the terminology & call the new program interface "Windows Graphic Foundation" (WGF)...apparently they've backed off & are sticking with DX10. Windows Vista will ship with DX10 but it will not be backwards compatible with DX9, DX8, etc in a true sense...instead, there will be some type of software emulation/compatibility mode."
"What I was getting at is if you plan on upgrading to Vista & want the best possible gaming experience, you're gonna need a DX10 video card."

But you can still use DX9 in windows vista right? Games are said not to use DX10 for a year or so after vista release and even those games that do use DX10 they will also support DX9... Yea yea, i won't get pretty water but oh well.

Well, thanks for the suggestions. I will take a look and see what I can find.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

The stuff about the AM2 vs AM2+ vs AM3 is a bit confusing. Apparently the quad will work in *some* AM2 boards, depending on the chipset, but it will have to use the older HyperTransport 1.0. I haven't been able to determine how much of a performance disadvantage that will be. The AM2+ will support HyperTransport 3.0, so it *should* perform better. The release of the AM3 has been pushed back to mid 2008. Regardless, Intel's Core2 kicks the crap out of everything out.

Oh, ok. Makes more sense now. Thanks.

I agree, there should be an edit feature.

wow...this was quite entertaining. You could have saved a whole bunch of writers cramp by simply asking these guys to tell you what to buy instead of asking thier opinion and then completely dogging what they suggest..dogging lol. These guys are smart and know what they are talking about. i figured i should add my post in a month later. I hope you took thier advice. They just tought you "basic computer 101"

Disclaimer: I will not be responsible for damaged or blown pc's due to my bad advice in reference to my lack of sleep. Reader should seek 2nd opionin prior to following advice.